Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

[otto]

Has anyone seen the movie Gone Girl?

Haven't seen Gone Girl, but have you seen Soylent Green?

Beautiful Bones is one of the best movies I've ever seen about what it is to be abducted and left in a field.
I lent the film to my daughter and suspect that it's been handed off several times since then.

 

[LoisLane]

Has anyone seen the movie Gone Girl? It's based on a fictional book (haven't read).

I just saw the movie last week, I can't really say too much as I don't want to give away the plot to those who may want see it. But it's definitely an interesting story, reminded me a bit of Scott Peterson, as well as some things that totally reminded me of this case and some of our discussions/theories on here.

I actually couldn't believe what happened in the movie, it echoed one of our ideas on here so much it was spooky!

ETA - Yes, I know the book/movie is fiction and this is real life, but still spooky in regards to similarities.

I have got to read this book! I may have to make a trip to the bookstore tomorrow! Thanks Lala!

 

[otto]

A
I believe I did offer to buy the first round of beers, does that not count for anything?? :toast:

<apologetically snipped>

Second round on me.

 

[otto]

,,,, I do have foundations but they still break the rules. It would be nice to see you pull up something websleuthed for a change.

<snipped for emphasis>

Sorry? "It would be nice to see me pull up something on websleuther for a change." What does that mean?

I can pull stuff up on this website. What would you like to see.

Everyone has foundations, but that doesn't mean that they have cause to accuse the Prosecutor's Office of misconduct at some level of the investigation.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Just thinking here - if we think of the KISS method and think this murder was a cut and dry murder because of money/business and one of the only things making it different from a majority of murders is that the bodies were take from the scene, I still get curious about this comment from LE:

&#8220;The Service has and will continue to dedicate as many resources as necessary to complete what has become a highly sensitive, and complex, investigation,&#8221; the statement said.(BBM)

I find use of the wording 'highly sensitive' and 'complex' strange. If it's just a simple case of he did X because of Y, why the statement?

I thought highly sensitive might've been used in regards to LE's theory about what they think happened to the victims and it hasn't been made public, other than that, this might mean there's a much bigger web we don't know about.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/volunt...called-off-following-police-request-1.1918099

 

[otto]

You could change them!!

I wish I could, but I booked something on Expedia and when I wanted to shortcut a portion of the ticket, I was advised of possible problems with the overall ticket connections. I can't change my ticket without giving up a family vacation ... and why would I do that?

 

[otto]

my guess is otto would need a sunscreen with a uv protection of 2000,, just a guess.

UV should be pre-glacial melt.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

<snipped for emphasis>

Sorry? "It would be nice to see me pull up something on websleuther for a change." What does that mean?

I can pull stuff up on this website. What would you like to see.

Everyone has foundations, but that doesn't mean that they have cause to accuse the Prosecutor's Office of misconduct at some level of the investigation.

Wow. Pull up that accusation if you could please.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Just thinking here - if we think of the KISS method and think this murder was a cut and dry murder because of money/business and one of the only things making it different from a majority of murders is that the bodies were take from the scene, I still get curious about this comment from LE:

&#8220;The Service has and will continue to dedicate as many resources as necessary to complete what has become a highly sensitive, and complex, investigation,&#8221; the statement said.(BBM)

I find use of the wording 'highly sensitive' and 'complex' strange. If it's just a simple case of he did X because of Y, why the statement?

I thought highly sensitive might've been used in regards to LE's theory about what they think happened to the victims and it hasn't been made public, other than that, this might mean there's a much bigger web we don't know about.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/volunt...called-off-following-police-request-1.1918099

Highly sensitive could also just be an empathetic description of the case, given a small child was involved, and one victim lost a mother, and a child at the same time.

 

[LoriMcA]

Haven't seen Gone Girl, but have you seen Soylent Green?

Beautiful Bones is one of the best movies I've ever seen about what it is to be abducted and left in a field.
I lent the film to my daughter and suspect that it's been handed off several times since then.

Gone Girl is amazing *the book anyways!* Soylent Green...oldie but a goodie...even tho the subject matter is....ick....
Lovely Bones? I could only watch once...it was so sad...very good but sad....

 

[otto]

It goes without saying, that evidence can be faked or planted, DNA evidence can be contaminated, evidence misinterpreted, evidence missing that tells the complete story, computer glitches, miscommunications etc... none of which point to incompetence. Questioning the evidence, to eliminate the possibility they are alive, does not mean you believe anyone to be incompetent.

Like it or not, you didn't hold yourself to the same logic you are holding everyone else to, and visibly demonstrated it.

What evidence is fake, or was planted, in the triple murder in Parkhill June, 2014?

In the history of the Calgary Police Service, when has evidence been misinterpreted?

The victims were murdered in the Parkhill house on June 29, 2014. On July 4, a suspect was arrested. He is still in custody. The remains have not been recovered. Evidence confirms that all three victims are deceased.

I like logic. I do hold myself to the same logic that I espouse. If you disagree, please provide an example, or desist.

 

[Slebby]

It goes without saying, that evidence can be faked or planted, DNA evidence can be contaminated, evidence misinterpreted, evidence missing that tells the complete story, computer glitches, miscommunications etc... none of which point to incompetence. Questioning the evidence, to eliminate the possibility they are alive, does not mean you believe anyone to be incompetent.

Like it or not, you didn't hold yourself to the same logic you are holding everyone else to, and visibly demonstrated it.

Actually, I'd say you just described a lot of incompetence - if they allowed the DNA evidence to become contaminated, or misinterpreted evidence, or miscommunication. Competent cops don't allow those things to happen, IMO.

I think it would be helpful to walk through a scenario involving faked or planted evidence. This is the way my mind works, I can't just say "anything's possible!" without thinking it though. Can we explore the logistics of the hypothetical staged death scene? Because I believe that, when we think it through, it's a very implausible theory, at least based on how I would imagine a staged death scene.

The problem with a theory that involves the staging of evidence to make it only *look* like the Ls and NO are dead, as I see it, is that we would have to assume the evidence staged would be blood. AL and KL withdraw and store their own blood over many weeks or months, until they have a sufficient volume that, when spilled at the crime scene, would cause LE to conclude they had died. I'm sure we've all seen a movie or tv show where someone faked their own death in this way.

Problem: Why would they allow NO to spend the night, on the very night they plan to disappear/stage their murder? How did LE come to the conclusion the NO was dead? Did LE say "well we have lots of blood from 2 out of 3 of them. That's enough for us to conclude NO is dead too"? Did the grandparents wound their grandson and cause him to bleed so profusely that LE would also conclude that he was dead? And then kidnapped their grandson? It doesn't ring true.

Is there another way to stage a death besides through a vast volume of blood evidence?

And then, how did DG come into the equation? What are the chances that he, a relative who also had business dealings with AL, was seen in their neighborhood on the very night they staged their disappearance? It's too coincidental, IMO.

Do you have a plausible staging scenario? Anyone?

 

[otto]

The disappearance and murder of course. Hypothetically speaking, no one knows the investors backing some businesses. The Hells Angels and other organized groups come to mind...no one walk up to them and calls them in as a singular POI. I have a feeling that LE may approach this lead avenue withan unorthodox plan...one doesn't 'invite them in as POI...one (namely LE would methodically weed out the too guy. Not a garden party variety tulip there. That's a group, that is large, without loads of compassion.. So a strategy to pin them with something would be a huge undertaking. And may require the "story to get them to step up and be interrogated" based on a false set up with false information. There could be another dynamic here as well. Jmo

<mod snip>

There are no hell's angels investors backing some business in the triple murder in Parkhill.

 

[stan laurel]

Kathryn Liknes, Alvin Liknes, and Nathan O'Brien have been murdered, most likely by D. Garland.
It is not fiction.

bbm. I thought you were stating this as fact earlier. "most likely" is not a term that one equates with fact,, it's kind of like saying, they sort of had intercourse. You either had intercourse or you didn't. You also posted that the L's had sold their house 6 months earlier, are you sure, can you post a link that shows this definitively?

 

[stan laurel]

That's right. On the day that the news broke that police were going to Mexico to investigate the murders, well after the victims were declared deceased, one media outlet released that there was a condo in Mazatlan that was jointly owned by Liknes/Garland.

... doubts about what? That the news article exists, that it is a joint title venture?

Sure ... doubting the media is a good idea ... can't be too sure about bogus reports.

How does one determine what is fact and what is fiction with the "doubting media bogus reports" approach? Where are the lines drawn?

a news article exists that the house was sold in December but if you sleuth (like good investigative journalists should) it would be discovered that the house was in FACT sold in May of 2013.

 

[otto]

Douglas Garland (modsnip) Kathryn Liknes, Alvin LIknes, and Nathan Obrien.

It is very unfortunate that Nathan was having a sleepover on the night that Kathryn and Alvin were premeditatedly murdered. It was bad timing on behalf of the person that planned to murder the couple.

All we know is that police went to Mexico to investigate a connection to the murders.
I wonder what they were investigating.

 

[Sillybilly]

a news article exists that the house was sold in December but if you sleuth (like good investigative journalists should) it would be discovered that the house was in FACT sold in May of 2013.

stan, could you please provide a link to that. Thanks !!

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Should we doubt that media report ... about there being a joint Liknes/Garland property in Mexico that police were investigating?
Why would we doubt the report?

By all means post the video if you have link. Some will remember the broadcast, while some have forgotten. Either way, it is part of the facts of the case.

We would question the report because there is much in this case that was initially reported as fact by MSM, only later to be corrected and removed, or proven incorrect.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Dropping in to break up the party!

So about Mexico...something that's been on my mind for a bit...
I know there was one article....but IIRC ...only one saying there was a 'joint' ownership in a condo....

Other than that one article...*if someone has a link that would be GREAT*...do we really know the 2 families had bought a condo together?
I have my doubts....IIRC that article correctly...it may have been shoddy reporting....obviously FL & AL have theirs in Mexico already...& we know that AL & KL were going there...either before or after Edmonton...conflicting reports on that as well...
I just have questions whether there ever was a joint purchase...

lala...about Gone Girl...read the book....it's a gooder hey...

You're right Lori, it might be wise for us to confirm there actually is a joint ownership in Mexico for sure. If I have time, I'll try to find more articles referencing this.

Gone Girl was definitely twisted!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Haven't seen Gone Girl, but have you seen Soylent Green?

Beautiful Bones is one of the best movies I've ever seen about what it is to be abducted and left in a field.
I lent the film to my daughter and suspect that it's been handed off several times since then.

I have not seen Soylent Green, but looked it up and it sounds intriguing and like something I'd like. I do like Charlton Heston too, might have to add it to my list of movies to see.

Lovely Bones was so eerie and sad, so hard to watch now that I have a child. But I do like the perception and idea, definitely original.