Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #20

[LoisLane]

Rick Hanson appointed as PC candidate...
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/rick-hanson-appointed-as-pc-candidate-in-calgary-cross-1.2280017

http://www.newstalk770.com/2015/03/14/hanson-in-as-pc-candidate-in-calgary-cross/
"Prentice says Hanson is one of the most-respected people in the country and that makes him a strong candidate in the next election, whenever that may be."

"MRU Political Science professor Keith Brownsey says Hanson is a “big catch”, adding “what’s not to like?”
He does say it was important for Hanson to wait until his retirement from CPS took effect, because it wouldn’t look good to have an “overtly partisan” police chief."

 

[LoisLane]

Perp walks are about public relations...

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayed...-with-the-perp-walk-michael-s-essay-1.2992783

 

[LoisLane]

I finally had a chance this week to drive around 38A Avenue and the neighbourhood itself. The streets seem much smaller in relation to the wide angle shots of Google. Also the close proximity from the Liknes street to Macleod Trail and the difference in status and upkeep and transient style homes and activity closer to the Macleod side.

Some other observations that keep me wondering about our many speculated theories are within the crime scene (the Liknes home). One of the Liknes vehicles is still parked in the driveway with the license plate attached (I believe it is not insured, but did not take that close of a look). The front step still has one of the green chairs (there was 2 in the earlier days) and a few other personal items that we saw in the news. Also, the black hose on the side of the house is still in place (I really thought that would have been bagged as evidence if blood was supposedly cleaned off the driveway).

The home is still unoccupied, and not listed on MLS. Possibly it is tied up in legal stuff. I wonder if the lawyer who bought it had only done so as some sort of financial arrangement with Alvin to safeguard the asset? Maybe the home was going to be transferred back and/or redeveloped by AL as some new business venture. Or maybe the property and vehicle has been turned over to the Crown until the trial is over. Maybe the other vehicles are in the garages.

Anyway, just wanted to share that with you all.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I finally had a chance this week to drive around 38A Avenue and the neighbourhood itself. The streets seem much smaller in relation to the wide angle shots of Google. Also the close proximity from the Liknes street to Macleod Trail and the difference in status and upkeep and transient style homes and activity closer to the Macleod side.

Some other observations that keep me wondering about our many speculated theories are within the crime scene (the Liknes home). One of the Liknes vehicles is still parked in the driveway with the license plate attached (I believe it is not insured, but did not take that close of a look). The front step still has one of the green chairs (there was 2 in the earlier days) and a few other personal items that we saw in the news. Also, the black hose on the side of the house is still in place (I really thought that would have been bagged as evidence if blood was supposedly cleaned off the driveway).

The home is still unoccupied, and not listed on MLS. Possibly it is tied up in legal stuff. I wonder if the lawyer who bought it had only done so as some sort of financial arrangement with Alvin to safeguard the asset? Maybe the home was going to be transferred back and/or redeveloped by AL as some new business venture. Or maybe the property and vehicle has been turned over to the Crown until the trial is over. Maybe the other vehicles are in the garages.

Anyway, just wanted to share that with you all.

Thanks for sharing Lois. Must've been emotional and haunting to see that house. This case still really disturbs me the most out of any I've followed on Websleuths.

I'm surprised the streets are smaller, does that mean the houses are also closer together than we thought?

After seeing the house and area, does this trigger any fresh thoughts, ideas or theories for you? Did you think the sidewalk by the hose was covered enough to not be seen by neighbors or did it seem quite open?

I don't know, it still bugs me how no one heard a peep, especially if there was any sort of struggle. I guess it depends on COD for this though which we don't know. So dreadfully sad...

 

[LoisLane]

Thanks for sharing Lois. Must've been emotional and haunting to see that house. This case still really disturbs me the most out of any I've followed on Websleuths.

I'm surprised the streets are smaller, does that mean the houses are also closer together than we thought?

After seeing the house and area, does this trigger any fresh thoughts, ideas or theories for you? Did you think the sidewalk by the hose was covered enough to not be seen by neighbors or did it seem quite open?

I don't know, it still bugs me how no one heard a peep, especially if there was any sort of struggle. I guess it depends on COD for this though which we don't know. So dreadfully sad...

The street seemed shorter and to drive around the corners and other streets it is limited in straight out exit points to Macleod or the Mission road. The back alley and fenced back yard across from the playground is tighter than my perception from Google. The very large home that the image of the truck is taken from is a stone throw away. If DG was parked there for a long time before JO left I wonder if AL or KL walked JO to her vehicle and if so they may have noticed the truck parked on the corner. There are not any good/ discreet angles to park and watch the home. Also if DG was circling the neighborhood it would be short circles and manouevering around corners and back again. I felt very out of place and obvious to others that I did not belong there or that I appeared lost. I didn't have much area to go around and then I was back again at the street. It is hard to see the home and vehicles parked from three of the street intersections that take you to the home. You would need to drive past the house or walk on the street to make sure know one was there. Depending on where JO parked and if DG knew that her vehicle belonged to someone at the home he would be limited on vantage points to ensure her leaving. I also think JO would have exited onto Macleod to go home.

The neighborhood is very quiet and I do understand that no one would hear anything especially at night when they are in their homes. The most activity was around the corner where the park is and the street drops down to Macleod. There are a lot of older homes that look more like rentals. This area had a lot of people sitting in their cars either talking on the phone or waiting for others to come out of the condo building. One vehicle was parked on the corner with a man sleeping inside he was there for about a half hour. There is a biker house that backs onto Macleod and they were out front tinkering. One nicer house close by to the park was vandalized and egged. My overall perception was that the Liknes home was in between the transient and the wealthy part of the neighborhood. The river and parks are quite spread out and there are a few dead-end spots where a vehicle could park to access the water or treed areas. I feel like the park and waters edge could be searched again before the trees start budding.

Some homes still have green ribbons attached.

There are a few abandoned homes (boarded up) and some new construction.

The hose is quite visible from the street. I was wondering why that wasn't sold at the Estate Sale. If they were selling everything someone may have scooped up a long hose. I wonder if anyone had asked about it or if buyers came to the home looking for something specific and would ask for things like old wheel barrows, rakes, shovels, hoses.

 

[news.talk]

Police collecting more evidence at Airdrie property, in relation to Liknes & O’Brien homicides http://bit.ly/1GEzL8b

Investigators are searching the property to collect more evidence to support the upcoming court case.

 

[deugirtni]

Thank you LL for visiting the area and for you report! Very interesting!

When was the last time that a title report was pulled on the property? It would be interesting to see if it says the same things, or if something has changed. Interesting that the same vehicle would still be parked there, if ownership changed as scheduled? Would be interesting also, to see if there are any building permits registered on the property. They would be obtained through the City's building department and they are not considered private. I will be happy to participate in paying for any reports that cost money so that the cost is not all on one person.

In regard to the hose still hanging there, that can only mean, imho, that the hose was obviously not 'evidence', and if not evidence, then it must not have been suspected to have been used, and if not used, then it didn't wash away supposed chunks of blood and tissue from the walkway and driveway as has been suggested.

I am still curious to know how the accused transported 3 people or bodies, either way, from the residence to wherever he disposed of them, without leaving a shred of any of their DNA in or on his vehicle. We know none was found by the length of time it took from the time they confiscated the vehicle to the time of the arrest.

Just out of curiosity, how would one be able to ascertain whether a vehicle has insurance just by looking, closely or otherwise?

I finally had a chance this week to drive around 38A Avenue and the neighbourhood itself. The streets seem much smaller in relation to the wide angle shots of Google. Also the close proximity from the Liknes street to Macleod Trail and the difference in status and upkeep and transient style homes and activity closer to the Macleod side.

Some other observations that keep me wondering about our many speculated theories are within the crime scene (the Liknes home). One of the Liknes vehicles is still parked in the driveway with the license plate attached (I believe it is not insured, but did not take that close of a look). The front step still has one of the green chairs (there was 2 in the earlier days) and a few other personal items that we saw in the news. Also, the black hose on the side of the house is still in place (I really thought that would have been bagged as evidence if blood was supposedly cleaned off the driveway).

The home is still unoccupied, and not listed on MLS. Possibly it is tied up in legal stuff. I wonder if the lawyer who bought it had only done so as some sort of financial arrangement with Alvin to safeguard the asset? Maybe the home was going to be transferred back and/or redeveloped by AL as some new business venture. Or maybe the property and vehicle has been turned over to the Crown until the trial is over. Maybe the other vehicles are in the garages.

Anyway, just wanted to share that with you all.

 

[LoisLane]

Police collecting more evidence at Airdrie property, in relation to Liknes & O’Brien homicides http://bit.ly/1GEzL8b

Investigators are searching the property to collect more evidence to support the upcoming court case.

I wonder if that means Douglas Garland is cooperating. Or if by evidence it means the bodies have been recovered.

 

[LoisLane]

Thank you LL for visiting the area and for you report! Very interesting!

When was the last time that a title report was pulled on the property? It would be interesting to see if it says the same things, or if something has changed. Interesting that the same vehicle would still be parked there, if ownership changed as scheduled? Would be interesting also, to see if there are any building permits registered on the property. They would be obtained through the City's building department and they are not considered private. I will be happy to participate in paying for any reports that cost money so that the cost is not all on one person.

In regard to the hose still hanging there, that can only mean, imho, that the hose was obviously not 'evidence', and if not evidence, then it must not have been suspected to have been used, and if not used, then it didn't wash away supposed chunks of blood and tissue from the walkway and driveway as has been suggested.

I am still curious to know how the accused transported 3 people or bodies, either way, from the residence to wherever he disposed of them, without leaving a shred of any of their DNA in or on his vehicle. We know none was found by the length of time it took from the time they confiscated the vehicle to the time of the arrest.

Just out of curiosity, how would one be able to ascertain whether a vehicle has insurance just by looking, closely or otherwise?

I will pull title next week and see if anything changed. The license plate would have the month and year of the insurance with the sticker that you put on the plate. When the vehicle is transferred thru ownership the plate would be returned back to the registries. I have the plate number and when I have time I will search pics to see that it is the same plate from July.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I wonder if that means Douglas Garland is cooperating.

Good point, he could be. This was said in the article (below) though…but this context isn't the best. Victims might not be on the acreage like article says, but maybe DNA evidence (clothing, jewelry, hair,) can be found in places never looked before to prove they were there. So DG could be giving little hints to police in interview answers.

"Police say they have no further information in regards to the location of the victims."

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Thank you LL for visiting the area and for you report! Very interesting!

When was the last time that a title report was pulled on the property? It would be interesting to see if it says the same things, or if something has changed. Interesting that the same vehicle would still be parked there, if ownership changed as scheduled? Would be interesting also, to see if there are any building permits registered on the property. They would be obtained through the City's building department and they are not considered private. I will be happy to participate in paying for any reports that cost money so that the cost is not all on one person.

In regard to the hose still hanging there, that can only mean, imho, that the hose was obviously not 'evidence', and if not evidence, then it must not have been suspected to have been used, and if not used, then it didn't wash away supposed chunks of blood and tissue from the walkway and driveway as has been suggested.

I am still curious to know how the accused transported 3 people or bodies, either way, from the residence to wherever he disposed of them, without leaving a shred of any of their DNA in or on his vehicle. We know none was found by the length of time it took from the time they confiscated the vehicle to the time of the arrest.

Just out of curiosity, how would one be able to ascertain whether a vehicle has insurance just by looking, closely or otherwise?

Welllllllll... back to this debate... DNA testing takes time, so we don't really know yet what they found. If the perp was smart enough to clean up the scene, one would imagine he was smart enough to clean up a transportation vehicle... however, if you strip the vehicle apart, DNA could have been washed into any number of nooks and crannies...

... and you don't necessarily need to confiscate the hose, just like they didn't pull up the sidewalk for court to prove there was blood evidence. That would make for a very long trial if every item had to be presented, rather than just a picture or a theory.

 

[LoisLane]

Good point, he could be. This was said in the article (below) though…but this context isn't the best. Victims might not be on the acreage like article says, but maybe DNA evidence (clothing, jewelry, hair,) can be found in places never looked before to prove they were there. So DG could be giving little hints to police in interview answers.
"Police say they have no further information in regards to the location of the victims."

Or if by evidence it means the bodies have been recovered.
Possibly the Police will not be updating the media at this time at least until the family is formally notified.

 

[LoisLane]

Welllllllll... back to this debate... DNA testing takes time, so we don't really know yet what they found. If the perp was smart enough to clean up the scene, one would imagine he was smart enough to clean up a transportation vehicle... however, if you strip the vehicle apart, DNA could have been washed into any number of nooks and crannies...

... and you don't necessarily need to confiscate the hose, just like they didn't pull up the sidewalk for court to prove there was blood evidence. That would make for a very long trial if every item had to be presented, rather than just a picture or a theory.

The hose if used would be a key piece of evidence in my opinion. It could be the next closest piece of evidence to the murder weapon. Blood splatter of all 3 victims could have been found on it. That would be an important piece when laying out the scene in court.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

The hose if used would be a key piece of evidence in my opinion. It could be the next closest piece of evidence to the murder weapon. Blood splatter of all 3 victims could have been found on it. That would be an important piece when laying out the scene in court.

If there were blood spatter on it, then it would most likely have been taken in for testing, and to preserve samples. No blood spatter doesn't necessarily mean not used... no?

 

[LoisLane]

If there were blood spatter on it, then it would most likely have been taken in for testing, and to preserve samples. No blood spatter doesn't necessarily mean not used... no?

True. It could have been used to restrain them as well or serve other purposes.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Or if by evidence it means the bodies have been recovered.
Possibly the Police will not be updating the media at this time at least until the family is formally notified.

The article says they are collecting evidence to support the upcoming court case... and that they have no further information on the location of the victims... this sort of hints that Garland is not cooperating and is proceeding with the court case. As well, they "have no further information" reads more like they have no new information, rather than they are not making a statement at this time. It would have been worded a little differently.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

May 19th by the way... the start of the preliminary hearing.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

True. It could have been used to restrain them as well or serve other purposes.

Welllllll... if you've ever tried to tie a hose...

 

[LoisLane]

The article says they are collecting evidence to support the upcoming court case... and that they have no further information on the location of the victims... this sort of hints that Garland is not cooperating and is proceeding with the court case. As well, they "have no further information" reads more like they have no new information, rather than they are not making a statement at this time. It would have been worded a little differently.

I tend to not rely on what is reported.

 

[news.talk]

I wonder if the sale of the house was stalled by the murder case??? I have seen it happen before, where the home where a homicide took place was left empty until after trial. If Prosecutors are theorizing that at least one, if not all the murders happened in the home, it is possible that the house is now tied up with the case.