Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

[deugirtni]

Maybe I'm reading too much into things and sorry if this is graphic (isn't it all though with the details we've learned), but IIRC the description of the aerial photo say Alvin and Kathy were nude, prone face down in the field and Nathan curled up.

Does anyone else find the description odd? If they were temporarily disposed or put in the field, I doubt careful consideration was done as to their positioning. So I guess what I'm wondering is were they put there to slowly succumb to their injuries/bleed out (most children and even adults I would think put themselves in a fetal position when scared or suffering) or was Nathan placed in that position? If DG was reckless and in a hurry I doubt Nathan would be curled up is all…wouldn't they all just been 'dumped' there?

It's an unpleasant thought and question but one that's been bugging me.

ETA - my thought is more because it sounds like the adults may have been handled carelessly and just put there but perhaps Nathan he carefully placed there. I guess I'm hoping he had some bizarre sense of mercy towards the child.

That 'curled up' part has been bothering me too. Also the fact that they had 'no shirts on and no pants on'. KL and AL were face down. I guess I have been wondering if at the time the photos were taken, they had been still alive. Sickens me to think they were alive when the left the L home.

“Alvin and Kathy lying prone, face down on the grass at the Garland farm with no shirt on and no pants on,” Faulkner told the jury. “You will also see a small figure curled up on the grass.”
http://globalnews.ca/news/3172718/h...ouglas-garland-accused-in-nathan-obrien-case/

 

[deugirtni]

It is concerning, however, that the company who took the aerial photos was flying over on July 1-2. It has not been established which day the photos showed the bodies of the victims on the farm. But at this point, I would imagine it would have had to have been at least 24 hours since the victims were taken to the farm before they showed up on those photos. So what transpired in those 24 hours, starting in the early morning hours of June 30th when DG's father was doped up on painkillers and his wife was out for most of the day at a memorial, then returned home "beat" and had a glass of wine before likely retiring to bed herself? This was also the day that DG was supposed to go to the psychiatrist, lied to his parents and said that he did, but did not. So what was he doing in the "outbuildings" all day? And again probably all night after his parents went to sleep? Why were the bodies lying prone and out in the open on either July 1st or July 2nd or perhaps both days? Long after the victims had been removed from their home. Were they out there the entire time? Were they deceased but hidden in an outbuilding for a while? Alive but restrained in an out building for a while? I shudder at the possibilities.

MOO

That has been bothering me too.... the time lapse between the time the threesome were removed from their home, and when the aerial photos captured them lying on the grass at the G property. An Amber Alert was issued on June 30th. I believe it was July 2nd when the parents did the press conference. I believe it was July 4th when police released the info about the green truck.

I wonder if DG was waiting for ...... a time when he could bury them unnoticed on his land, when his folks weren't going to be around, and he had no scheduled things to attend to.... but then something provoked him to 'dispose' of their bodies another way which would be potentially less noticeable to neighbours?

If he had planned all along to do this big gruesome dismembering and 'autopsy' procedures on them, then why not dig in right away and 'gedderdun'? What was he waiting for? Did something on the news spook him and prompt him to do it more discreetly (neighbours would have been used to seeing the burn bin in action on the property, and he was smart enough to know that he couldn't burn 'whole' bodies.

To do an autopsy.... does the blood have to be drained first?? Could he have been waiting for all of the blood to be gone? (Sorry if this is a really stupid question!)

 

[Sillybilly]

Christie Blatchford seems to be pretty thorough with her daily coverage. Here is her take from yesterday...

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-c...of-accused-killer-douglas-garland-tells-trial

Catching up, so apologies if already addressed.

From the above linked article:

Archie told her he didn’t think he’d left yet, and sure enough, she heard Douglas a few minutes later, told him she had to pick up a woman in Airdrie and go to a memorial service, and asked if he’d be home, to make sure his dad got some soup, when she left.

“He said he’d be back home at 11,” she said, “and he was.”

(Douglas left the house as though going to his appointment with the psychiatrist, but the doctor’s office phoned that day to ask where he was.)

She got back home about 5 p.m., and was beat. She told Archie and Douglas to have leftovers if they wanted, grabbed a glass of wine and went to the basement family room to watch the news.

If she didn't get home until 5 pm, how can she state that DG was home from his morning appointment at 11:00?

 

[deugirtni]

An expert locksmith will testify in the case Thursday.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3187872/first-responders-will-testify-on-3nd-day-of-triple-murder-trial/

More crimescene photos posted in the article as well:

 

[deugirtni]

Catching up, so apologies if already addressed.

From the above linked article:



If she didn't get home until 5 pm, how can she state that DG was home from his morning appointment at 11:00?

Just assuming, but perhaps from Archie who reported to her when she got home that DG had been home in time to get him some lunch at 11?

 

[deugirtni]

Hate to ask this....... but on the photo above of the carpet with marker#12, ...... that isn't a tooth there beside the leaf, IS it??

It does look kind of like it could be a tooth, but doesn't look like a human tooth to me... ?? Could it possibly be an old tooth of a pet or something??

 

[deugirtni]

That 'curled up' part has been bothering me too. Also the fact that they had 'no shirts on and no pants on'. KL and AL were face down. I guess I have been wondering if at the time the photos were taken, they had been still alive. Sickens me to think they were alive when the left the L home.

“Alvin and Kathy lying prone, face down on the grass at the Garland farm with no shirt on and no pants on,” Faulkner told the jury. “You will also see a small figure curled up on the grass.”
http://globalnews.ca/news/3172718/h...ouglas-garland-accused-in-nathan-obrien-case/

Another thing I'm wondering.. the Crown apparently specified in her opening statements that the L's were lying face down with no shirt on and no pants on, but wondering if they may have had adult diapers on. ?? Guess we will soon find out where the diaper line of questioning is coming from.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

I'm still trying to understand how DG got 2 incapacitated adults (and Alvin isn't a small man) into the truck without any neighbors seeing or hearing something. Did he put them in the cab of the truck or the box? It would be difficult for one man to get 2 incapacitated adults up into the cab of the truck very easily, and it would seem risky to put them in the box of the truck in the event that one or both of them "came to" during the drive out to the farm. Even having them in the cab of the truck, during the drive thru the city and out to the farm he'd have had to stop at red lights and risked another motorist at a red light seeing 2 adults ?propped up in the cab/not moving. Obviously he did this all when it was still dark out but in Calgary there's still always some traffic out and about.

I'm thinking there was a brief struggle at the home, at least between Alvin and Garland. Teeth out probably from impact (as noted up thread). I'm hoping 'small tooth' is an adult bottom tooth as I doubt (hoping) not much of a struggle required with Nathan.

If syringes were used to debilitate them, I'm thinking at the farm not at the house. I think head injuries probably incapacitated them for the ride out to the acreage.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

On Tuesday his Mom stated he only attended a few months of 1st Med school @ U of A. That would have been a long time ago. I don't think he'd have learned all that much about human anatomy and such in that short period of time, in only the 1st year.

Another thing about the internet searches, this sounds gory but I wonder if Garland struggled with thinking he didn't have the nerve to go through the murder part and was more interested in performing the gory aftermath (restraining, autopsies, etc.) Maybe he obsessed about what he would do after more than the murders themselves if that makes sense.

I guess I'm hoping there was no torture, living out fantasies or any sort of 'tampering' done until after they were deceased. With his science/medical background, maybe this is something he obsessed over.

 

[Sillybilly]

Just assuming, but perhaps from Archie who reported to her when she got home that DG had been home in time to get him some lunch at 11?

Yeah ... I'm just being picky on what she knew first hand compared to what she may have been told or assumed some time after the fact.

 

[mrazda71]

I'm still trying to understand how DG got 2 incapacitated adults (and Alvin isn't a small man) into the truck without any neighbors seeing or hearing something. Did he put them in the cab of the truck or the box? It would be difficult for one man to get 2 incapacitated adults up into the cab of the truck very easily, and it would seem risky to put them in the box of the truck in the event that one or both of them "came to" during the drive out to the farm. Even having them in the cab of the truck, during the drive thru the city and out to the farm he'd have had to stop at red lights and risked another motorist at a red light seeing 2 adults ?propped up in the cab/not moving. Obviously he did this all when it was still dark out but in Calgary there's still always some traffic out and about.

I'm assuming that they were restrained (police recovered handcuffs and I'm petty sure every murderer has a roll of duct tape) as well as being (hopefully) unconscious or already dead and then put into the flat back part of the truck and covered over ...

 

[Tealgrove]

Would they still be able to tell if it was Ashes from a human? Vs garbage?

Not sure. In the Bosma case, they were able to tell that it was human because they identified human bone fragments and a tooth but even the tooth couldn't give up any DNA.

 

[KMouse]

On Tuesday his Mom stated he only attended a few months of 1st Med school @ U of A. That would have been a long time ago. I don't think he'd have learned all that much about human anatomy and such in that short period of time, in only the 1st year.

Maybe he was researching autopsy to get info. On the type of forensic evidence can be collected and decided to go with burning to eradicate as much as he could.
He could have left the bodies at the house. He could have disposed of them in a river or along a road.
He chose to bring them to the farm because he had privacy there and time to get rid of evidence. He was foiled by the surveillance photo of his truck.

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[zencompass]

Sending prayers of love, comfort and strength to the family. This is all so heartbreaking.

 

[Coldpizza]

Expert locksmith to testify at Douglas Garland triple murder trial
January 19, 2017

An expert locksmith is expected to testify on Thursday in the triple-murder trial for Douglas Garland.

On Wednesday, a Calgary Police forensic crime scene officer testified he discovered drill marks in the deadbolt of the side door to the Liknes home.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3190847/locksmith-testify-douglas-garland-trial/?sf51773867=1

 

[kodi]

What immediately comes to mind for me is initially they retrieved fragments - all of which proved to belong to 2 victims. Thus returned to see if they could find fragments for the 3rd victim.

Cherchri, good post. Following your train of thought here, perhaps this is how long it took to discover the evidence of overhead photos clearly showing all three victims on the property.

I have been silently following along all week. Thank you, so much, to all of you posting tweets. [emoji1316]

And a big Welcome to the new members. [emoji4]


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[otto]

That has been bothering me too.... the time lapse between the time the threesome were removed from their home, and when the aerial photos captured them lying on the grass at the G property. An Amber Alert was issued on June 30th. I believe it was July 2nd when the parents did the press conference. I believe it was July 4th when police released the info about the green truck.

I wonder if DG was waiting for ...... a time when he could bury them unnoticed on his land, when his folks weren't going to be around, and he had no scheduled things to attend to.... but then something provoked him to 'dispose' of their bodies another way which would be potentially less noticeable to neighbours?

If he had planned all along to do this big gruesome dismembering and 'autopsy' procedures on them, then why not dig in right away and 'gedderdun'? What was he waiting for? Did something on the news spook him and prompt him to do it more discreetly (neighbours would have been used to seeing the burn bin in action on the property, and he was smart enough to know that he couldn't burn 'whole' bodies.

To do an autopsy.... does the blood have to be drained first?? Could he have been waiting for all of the blood to be gone? (Sorry if this is a really stupid question!)

I don't think he was doing autopsies, but rather learning how to dismember a body with the right tools.

There is a big question surrounding that 24 hours between abduction and aerial photo of the victims on the ground.

 

[Kamille]

Catching up, so apologies if already addressed.

From the above linked article:



If she didn't get home until 5 pm, how can she state that DG was home from his morning appointment at 11:00?

That was a little vague for me too. I was thinking either she didn't leave until after 11:00am when DG "came home" (or entered the house from another area of the property under the guise that he'd been at the doctor's office) or she called her husband, perhaps from the friend's home, at 11:00am to see if her son was home to take care of him and get him some lunch.

MOO

 

[otto]

Just curious, where did you find this part, I missed that one: (She also does not believe Allen is common law with Patti anymore)

It was in the news that Patti and Allen are no longer a couple.

 

[Linike]

Or injected.........