Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #21

[otto]

For the burn barrel vs burn pile debate, I'm bringing over the pictures of both the burn barrel (appears there was only one) and the aerial of the property showing the location of it in relation to the "south fire pit/fire dump", which is where I assume LE went back to 9 months later?

First the burn barrel

[video=twitter;821434172812079104]https://twitter.com/NancyHixt/status/821434172812079104[/video]

We also need to keep in mind that what Garland did on an acreage is probably different from other rural people. He thinks that laws are for other people.

 

[sublimemumma]

True. The surveillance images were crucial. If DG was scoping out the Liknes house in the days or weeks beforehand this is probably something he should have noticed. I'm assuming the home with the cameras likely had the little bubble-like cameras mounted around the perimeter.

Regardless, even for the most amateur or stupid criminal it should be pretty obvious that you don't use your own vehicle for committing crimes.

I can't decide if he was actually amateur (though I do believe he meant to do a be clean up but ran out of time because his sister identified the truck.) Really if Nathan hadn't been there and the AL and KL were leaving for Mexico, it might of been a while before anyone reported them missing. or if he is such a narcissist that he still doesn't really believe he was totally out of line with most of what he did. I have known one who never ever thought he was in the wrong, even after knocking out his best friend for beating him at pool or beating his wife, telling his friends she deserved it over something very minor. Yes this is minor compared to what we are talking about in this trial but I could imagine for someone who has sat and fumed and dreamed about his revenge for this amount of time, I could see how he could have himself convinced he did what he had to and what they deserved.

 

[sublimemumma]

Yes! Why so many dumbells anyway? They were to be moving very soon. Anyway I guess thats neither here nor there.

Welcom lawyer-mum and Jayzo!!! Glad you are here with us, please stick around!

Thinking about the wi-fi/router, etc. So, yes, they should have no problem finding out when it was powered down. But, did DG have a cell phone that connected automatically (or attempted to) in the minutes prior to the power down? They should easily be able to find that out also. Did he even have a cell phone?? I forget if we knew this at some point.

I have a set of dumb bells. I have 8 in total, different weights. I don't really think it's strange to have so many and if they r packing up and selling stuff with people walking through and moving things maybe they just got spread out.

 

[Matzoh]

A couple of things I'm wondering about:

Testimony in the trial is specific - the three victims were killed on the farm near Airdrie. The DNA testimony is still underway with forensic investigator Alexon testifying - I think he will be on the stand for a long while. Likely to have him testify to findings at the farm too? RCMP became involved at that stage so I could be wrong (a jurisdictional issue). Big question mark.

Where in testimony did someone say all three had been killed at the farm? (I might have missed that.) I have always suspected that the police had pretty good evidence that Kathy was either mortally wounded or killed in the house, because IIRC, the Amber Alert was only for Alvin and Nathan.

Secondly (and this may be a small thing), I'm curious about reports that DG had a B.Sc. from Camrose Lutheran College. To my knowledge, CLC didn't start granting degrees until about 1992, at which time it was renamed Augustana University-College. Prior to that, I believe you could study for two years toward a degree, but would then have to transfer to a university. Sounds like DG did transfer into med school at U of A - can you do that without having an undergrad degree?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm still curious about the questions about the mental health of AL and KL (if I remember right).

Maybe the not-guilty plea is so DG can yes, re-live the crime and relish in it all and maybe to create a smear campaign against Alvin using the bankruptcies, owing people money, perhaps some non-legit business practices, where they are going to try to create reasonable doubt (although not sure "how" with the way evidence is going). Even if they try to smear AL and KL's character/ethics or whatever, does DG really think people would think that constitutes murder? I have to wonder what will happen and why the plea.

 

[Female]

A couple of things I'm wondering about:



Where in testimony did someone say all three had been killed at the farm? (I might have missed that.) I have always suspected that the police had pretty good evidence that Kathy was either mortally wounded or killed in the house, because IIRC, the Amber Alert was only for Alvin and Nathan.

Secondly (and this may be a small thing), I'm curious about reports that DG had a B.Sc. from Camrose Lutheran College. To my knowledge, CLC didn't start granting degrees until about 1992, at which time it was renamed Augustana University-College. Prior to that, I believe you could study for two years toward a degree, but would then have to transfer to a university. Sounds like DG did transfer into med school at U of A - can you do that without having an undergrad degree?

Amber alerts are for minors under the age of 18. The alert was for Nathan, however both grandparents were included in the description as well as on all the missing posters/bulletins.

 

[otto]

A couple of things I'm wondering about:



Where in testimony did someone say all three had been killed at the farm? (I might have missed that.) I have always suspected that the police had pretty good evidence that Kathy was either mortally wounded or killed in the house, because IIRC, the Amber Alert was only for Alvin and Nathan.

Secondly (and this may be a small thing), I'm curious about reports that DG had a B.Sc. from Camrose Lutheran College. To my knowledge, CLC didn't start granting degrees until about 1992, at which time it was renamed Augustana University-College. Prior to that, I believe you could study for two years toward a degree, but would then have to transfer to a university. Sounds like DG did transfer into med school at U of A - can you do that without having an undergrad degree?

Prosecutors have presented their theory, but I don't think anyone but Garland knows when they died.

I've long wondered if Garland meant to quietly break in and abduct the couple without leaving a bloody crime scene ... the family would simply find them gone - no trace of anything in the house. That matches with the handcuffs and other kidnapping tools. With Alvin and Kathryn sleeping in different rooms, he was at a disadvantage. Nathan further complicated his plan. It looks like the main weapon he used was found at the scene. My guess is that his plan went off the rails right away and from there he improvised everything. I think he was unable to break from his original plan to abduct the couple, take them to the acreage, and torment them, but with the complications from the beginning, he may well have murdered them on the spot, and then he continued with his plan of taking them to the acreage anyway.

 

[sublimemumma]

I think he wants people to understand his relationship with Alvin and how he was taken advantage of in a business deal. He was fixated on his injustice from 2010 - 2014, and he wants people to see Alvin as he did. The only way to do that is with a trial, and a jury trial is better than a bench trial because more people hear his story. I don't think he want's to hurt Alvin's family.

Very good point. Goes along with the narcissist line of thinking.

 

[SarKatStic]

I truly think it's like someone (forget who) said he is so angry it's just to punish the family more by making them go through the trial.

I agree with the idea behind this sentiment, however I would alter that to say he's so angry about being ripped off regarding the patent that he wants to the world to hear about it.
He's not considering the family's feelings, or even the feelings of his own family, he is fixated on how he was wronged.
I may even guess that he'll be inwardly disappointed at how little attention was paid to his perceived slight, which he obviously thinks is important enough to carry a grudge for years, and how the trial will move onto more technical terms and "checking" possible defenses off the list (eg diabetic? Passports accounted for? Etc)

Just some thoughts from a newbie. [emoji112]

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk

 

[honeywild]

A couple of things I'm wondering about:



Where in testimony did someone say all three had been killed at the farm? (I might have missed that.) I have always suspected that the police had pretty good evidence that Kathy was either mortally wounded or killed in the house, because IIRC, the Amber Alert was only for Alvin and Nathan.

Secondly (and this may be a small thing), I'm curious about reports that DG had a B.Sc. from Camrose Lutheran College. To my knowledge, CLC didn't start granting degrees until about 1992, at which time it was renamed Augustana University-College. Prior to that, I believe you could study for two years toward a degree, but would then have to transfer to a university. Sounds like DG did transfer into med school at U of A - can you do that without having an undergrad degree?

I haven't figured out how to link or add attachments yet, but Reid Fiest ([video=twitter;821053809333895168]https://twitter.com/reidfiest/status/821053809333895168[/video]) tweeted: "Crown says it has evidence the accused violently murdered the 3 at #garland's farm. Their remains were burned. #yyc". He goes on to clarify that in subsequent reply tweets.

As for #2 I don't recall seeing it confirmed that it was Camrose Lutheran Bible college. Several tweets used the abbreviation 'clc' which was conveyed as Canadian Lutheran college by others tweeting the same thing.

 

[CentralAlberta]

I think he wants people to understand his relationship with Alvin and how he was taken advantage of in a business deal. He was fixated on his injustice from 2010 - 2014, and he wants people to see Alvin as he did. The only way to do that is with a trial, and a jury trial is better than a bench trial because more people hear his story. I don't think he want's to hurt Alvin's family.

And this is why I think the defense has reserved the right to call witnesses depending on what the crown does. If DG isn't satisfied with the portrayal of AL, he will take the stand to be sure we ALL know. IMO

 

[LoisLane]

Not sure if this was posted already but it is an interesting article regarding AL's business ventures over the years.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...uglas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says

Various companies are mentioned. Here is one:
"A similar patent was also filed jointly with Mr. Liknes and a company called Northern Pressure Systems Ltd. in 2001. One of the shareholders and directors of that company was Dick Bonnycastle, who operated Harlequin Enterprises before it was sold to the Toronto Star.

Mr. Bonnycastle told the National Post that he vaguely remembered Mr. Liknes, but the inventor hadn’t been involved with the company for about a decade. The pump was built, but never proved to be economically viable. Investment was further stalled when natural gas prices tanked in 2008. Northern Pressure Systems went dormant."

 

[LoisLane]

A couple of things I'm wondering about:



Where in testimony did someone say all three had been killed at the farm? (I might have missed that.) I have always suspected that the police had pretty good evidence that Kathy was either mortally wounded or killed in the house, because IIRC, the Amber Alert was only for Alvin and Nathan.

Secondly (and this may be a small thing), I'm curious about reports that DG had a B.Sc. from Camrose Lutheran College. To my knowledge, CLC didn't start granting degrees until about 1992, at which time it was renamed Augustana University-College. Prior to that, I believe you could study for two years toward a degree, but would then have to transfer to a university. Sounds like DG did transfer into med school at U of A - can you do that without having an undergrad degree?

I noticed in one of the photo's of his office there was a framed certificate on the wall. Maybe that was for the B.Sc.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2kUCiNVQAAw9Ma.jpg

DG leaving court.

That's not a current pic of DG. This is an old pic from 2014 when he was originally arrested. In this pic he's being escorted out of the Calgary Police Service building (see sign). Likely on his way to the Remand centre. He's wearing the same navy t-shirt in this pic as he was in all of the initial pics we saw of him in the media, when he was originally arrested. They're using an old pic. Here's video of him, from a news article in 2015 July, in this same scenario that this pic came from. http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/trial-for-douglas-garland-set-for-january-2017-1.2496807

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Yeah but they had cell phones which work without Wifi. Even if he didn't know for sure, surely he had to assume they had cell phones (everyone in this day and age has one).

If they had VOIP, then turning off the router would have disabled the home telephone.

 

[Sillybilly]

A couple of things I'm wondering about:

Where in testimony did someone say all three had been killed at the farm? (I might have missed that.)

<rsbm>

It was from the Crown's Opening Statement:

Meghan Grant &#8207;@CBCMeg 29s29 seconds ago
Crown: Three victims were "violently removed from their beds, taken to the #Garland farm and killed." Their bodies burned in a burn barrel.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...lvin-and-Kathy-Liknes&p=13075090#post13075090

 

[deugirtni]

I tried to link it, but was unable on my phone for some reason.

If you go to msm reporter Megan @ CBC who is covering this trial, the tweet where she discusses Patti meeting her mother to show her the picture, Megan makes another treat in the comment section of that particular tweet about PG and AL not being together anymore.

Let me know if you can't find it, I will post a screenshot.

That would be great. I know it has been said (perhaps through MSM) that the two have split, but we know that MSM can tend to get finer details mixed up (ie the two were said to have been 'married', 'living common law', some indicated past tense, some indicated present tense, etc).. plus.. I had simply missed that part that you had posted so I was just wondering where you found it. Thanks!

 

[deugirtni]

I read somewhere today, maybe an article, or a tweet, that JO made mention of two people who stood out to her at the estate sale. I'm curious if they were two people together or at different times. Anyone recall reading that?

ETA: found article with comment

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local...mother-a-portrait-of-courage-on-witness-stand

"When defence lawyer Jim Lutz begins his cross-examination of the grieving mother and daughter, he speaks softly and asks just a few questions. He asks her about the comment that someone had taken her family&#8217;s bodies, noting it was the first he had heard of it. He also asks her about two people from the estate sale she was concerned about, which she confirms."

A good example of how, even though the reporters are tweeting live at the trial, a lot is still missed for those of us not able to attend.

 

[Kamille]

I would think, since the Crown does not know if any of the victims were deceased before they left the home, that since DG has chosen to let them tell the story for him, their case for 3 counts of first degree murder is bolstered by the argument that he removed all 3 from the house with the intent to murder them at the farm. So why wouldn't the Crown go with this theory?

Wasn't it in the Jodi Arias case where Detective Flores told JA she should tell him what happened because she didn't want Juan Martinez, her prosecutor to tell the story for her? There's a lot of truth in that for all people who commit crimes, which can be proven with evidence, and choose to stay quiet and "let them prove what they did".

MOO

 

[deugirtni]

According to this article he started searching the lock online on june 13. I don't remember any one tweeting out a date. So maybe that is around the time he decided to put the plan into action. It would be easy enough for him to drive over there and check things out make notes.

http://m.metronews.ca/#/article/new...arland-disabled-by-unorthodox-drill-hole.html

In that article referenced, it states that it was in the Crown's opening remarks that DG started searching the lock on June 13th, so that 'proof' must be coming up at the trial at some point when they will have an 'expert' testify as to the contents of the hard drive which was found in DG's basement rafters. moo (Anything stated by the Crown during opening remarks, closing remarks, questioning, cross exam, etc., is not 'evidence').

Once they do produce the evidence, it is interesting that it is so recent (in comparison to the time of 'the event', since it seemed to already have been hidden, reportedly in the rafters of the G basement. He must have had some kind of fear of being caught (and not by his parents, since they didn't really use the computer(s) much?, and they seemed to give him his privacy). I guess the act of hiding such a thing would preclude DG from being able to claim 'NCR', or at least from being successful with such a defence?

&#8220;On June 13, just 17 days before the Likneses and Nathan disappeared, he started to research a specific lock, the Schlage BE365. The same lock on the Likneses side door, that was found open the morning of June 30,&#8221; said Crown prosecutor Vicki Faulkner, Monday.