Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #22

[LoisLane]

I took it to mean that she saw DG's shoes in a video, but not in person.

Me too.. a surveillance/CCTV video.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

There was blood on or next to the beds in two bedrooms on the top level. Drilling the lock took between 1-5 minutes, depending on experience with drilling locks.

It's quite likely that Kathryn and Nathan (perhaps she carried him) went to the spare bedroom when Jennifer locked the side door at 11PM. Sofa beds are awful for sleeping. The router pings every 6 hours. It pinged a 2:10, and then not again until 8:10, where the ping return was that it was turned off. That pretty much means that it was unplugged at 2:10 AM ... because the ping cycle is every 6 hours, and the time when the ping cycle returned no signal is 8:10AM.

If they knew what was coming, I'm sure they were terrified. My guess is that Garland went to the spare bedroom first. When he got to Alvin, Alvin was probably waking up. We know there was a struggle because of the over-turned TV. I think this happened around 2:30AM. There may be CCTV of Garland's truck on MacLeod Trail, which will help refine the timeline. Of the three who could have survived the attack ... I'm not optimistic nor convinced that any survived.

I think Nathan was awake when they went upstairs because the purse his bought with his superman cape in it was next to his side of the bed in the spare room. Only a kid would care to bring that in the middle of the night and take it with them (my 5 year old daughter is the same when she wakes in the night and comes and sleeps in my room, she's determined she has her stuffy with her even though she's half awake).

Don't criminals usually take the biggest threat out first? I thought maybe he would've got to Alvin first, and he could more easily overpower a woman without a big man to potentially stop him. These details are worse than I thought they would be.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm wondering how much money the estate sale brought in and if any cash was accounted for in their home when it was searched. According to an article (link below) it was a 3-day event advertised on Kijiji and it was approximated that 300 people likely walked through their home.
If DG felt entitled to some compensation for his contributions to the pump manufacturing, that would have been a perfect time to rob them of any cash they had from sales (as he most probably would have known that the estate sale was taking place).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-estate-sales-safety-093245422.html?ref=gs

I thought I read a tweet that their wallets were found and some cash in a box/container(?) something along those lines…I thought maybe cash from the estate sale. I don't think it was a lot of money either, so whatever money was lying around - sounds like he didn't take any of it.

 

[sublimemumma]

BBM

Re the billy club - a few swings of one of those can do some serious damage and definitely knock a tooth or two out.

Graphic - I'm sorry....

The smouldering file in the burn barrel - there is a very distinct odour when flesh is being burned. I have to wonder if LE noted that on arrival at the farm or if it was something else burning when they arrived.

You read my mind on both thoughts. I was expecting them to say something about the smell also. The club, in my opinion, would of done the damage shown in the evidence so far.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I would have to go back to the questioning of Doug's parents but did either set of lawyers get a timeline of where the parents were after the disappearance? I know they were around on the night of the disappearance and the next morning but what happened to them after that?

Were they on the farm on July 4 when Doug was arrested and police arrived to search the property? If not, where were they?

I believe they were at home. Doreen Garland testified that she met her daughter in a park regarding the truck picture. I believe that was on July 4th. Then Doreen and Archie Garland were asked to go to RCMP detachment where they were questioned separately. They were told at that time that RCMP were going to arrest DG and that their property was being seized they could not go home. She did not specify where they went after that.

 

[sublimemumma]

I'll be there as well!!

I will go with you!!!

 

[sublimemumma]

That is a lot of shoes for 3 people. Did they have grandkids? That could account for kid's shoes. My parents have a cottage and we all leave shoes there. With everyone leaving shoes and boots at the cottage the amount does add up quickly.

Yes either they never got rid of the shoes from when they were kids or there is something very strange going on. My imagination is going crazy now that we see evidence of how demented he could be... foot, shoe fetish to go along with those diapers... but seriously the shoe thing doesn't sit well with me. I have four kids and I haven't yet got rid of many shoes. 130 is a lot of shoes...

 

[LoisLane]

I think Nathan was awake when they went upstairs because the purse his bought with his superman cape in it was next to his side of the bed in the spare room. Only a kid would care to bring that in the middle of the night and take it with them (my 5 year old daughter is the same when she wakes in the night and comes and sleeps in my room, she's determined she has her stuffy with her even though she's half awake).

Don't criminals usually take the biggest threat out first? I thought maybe he would've got to Alvin first, and he could more easily overpower a woman without a big man to potentially stop him. These details are worse than I thought they would be.

This does make a lot of sense. I didn't realize the purse was not in the basement. I thought it was in a closet for some reason and I thought DG may have stashed it thinking it was KL's.

I'm trying to figure out the beds.. the pullout was a double/queen size and the master looks like a King size. The other bed I have seen is a single or maybe a twin? Is there another bed as well? I thought JO and the baby were in her "old" bed which I assumed was the single/twin size and so when she said her baby was not comfortable I figured it was the size of the bed. So if KL and NO went upstairs maybe they took the master and AL took the single/twin. Or NO was fine to sleep by himself in the smaller bed. I just can't rationalize leaving the larger bed for a smaller one.

 

[sublimemumma]

"Douglas Garland was living in B.C.’s Lower Mainland and working as a chemical mixer at the B.C. Institute of Technology when police found him. He managed to evade detection by stealing the identity of Matthew Kemper Hartley, a 14-year-old Cardston boy killed in a car crash in 1980."

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-case-has-link-to-liknes-family-drug-lab-past

Gravesite: https://billiongraves.com/grave/Matthew-Kemper-Hartley/1929021#/

There is another one too.. just have to find it. It mentions that MH's sister was also killed in that crash. She was 12.

DG had to have known the story to justify his entitlement to MH's identity. IMO.

Here: "The teen was at the wheel of a car near his family’s ranch in Cardston, about 3½ hours south of Calgary, when he hit a half-ton truck. His sister, Jill Lorene Hartley, 12, who was riding with him was also killed.

The siblings are buried together in the Church of Latter Day Saints cemetery."

Forgive my ignorance.. is that Lutheran?
https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nati...ed-with-possessing-false-id/amp?client=safari

Latter Day Saints is Mormon

 

[swedie]

I'm wondering how much money the estate sale brought in and if any cash was accounted for in their home when it was searched. According to an article (link below) it was a 3-day event advertised on Kijiji and it was approximated that 300 people likely walked through their home.
If DG felt entitled to some compensation for his contributions to the pump manufacturing, that would have been a perfect time to rob them of any cash they had from sales (as he most probably would have known that the estate sale was taking place).

https://www.yahoo.com/news/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-estate-sales-safety-093245422.html?ref=gs

According to the Crown DG was aware of the estate sale and had followed both AL and KL on line for some time. Kind of sounds like DG took money and perhaps some of their ID and financial cards and money from the cash box.

I find it hard to believe that they only made a few hundred dollars and $50 of that in cash. LE obviously didn't find AL's wallet, found what they believed was KL's purse, so that leads me to believe KL's ID was missing from her wallet. Had her ID been in her purse/wallet LE would have known it was her purse. JMO.

DG is an evil and I hope he rots in hell. May he suffer as he made Alvin, Kathy and Nathan. I hope someone gets their claws into him and rips him to shreds. Very wicked . All MOO.

“What you will come to see and hear is that the accused held a grudge that lasted for years against Alvin Liknes and that he did, through internet searches, keep tabs on both Alvin and Kathryn Liknes,” the prosecutor said.

Faulkner said Garland was forced to act on his grudge because the couple were retiring and moving out of Calgary.

She said advertisements of the sale of the couple’s furniture “spurred the accused into action.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime/live-douglas-garland-trial-nathan-obriens-mother-to-testify

Lucie Edwardson ‏@MetroLucie · 9h9 hours ago
July 3, Shute went back after 9p.m. to search for specific items: Kathy purse, wallet, passport, cash, Alvin's wallet

Shute said he located two cheques for a couple hundred dollars in the living room, and a cash box (~$50) in master bedroom.

A purse was also located in the master bedroom w. a wallet. Shute said he believed it to be Kathy's.

Shute said they went through home "from top to bottom," but didn't locate some of the other items they'd been tasked to find.

 

[sublimemumma]

This does make a lot of sense. I didn't realize the purse was not in the basement. I thought it was in a closet for some reason and I thought DG may have stashed it thinking it was KL's.

I'm trying to figure out the beds.. the pullout was a double/queen size and the master looks like a King size. The other bed I have seen is a single or maybe a twin? Is there another bed as well? I thought JO and the baby were in her "old" bed which I assumed was the single/twin size and so when she said her baby was not comfortable I figured it was the size of the bed. So if KL and NO went upstairs maybe they took the master and AL took the single/twin. Or NO was fine to sleep by himself in the smaller bed. I just can't rationalize leaving the larger bed for a smaller one.

Depending on the pull out, I have slept on some that I would take a single bed with my 5 year old over a bigger uncomfortable pull out bed.

 

[sublimemumma]

I am having a hard time remembering but there was something strange about the car accident that had the boy and his sister. I know DG was some how connected to the accident. Did we ever find if he was directly involved or did he for some strange reason just try to say he was as an excuse for his breakdown? If he wasn't involved why would he say he was. Did he truly believe he was? This could speak alot into his mind state

 

[Wondergirl]

Slebby asked on previous thread if a defendant has been known to pleade guilty in recent years.

In the extremely high profile case of multi-murderer ex- Colonel Russell Williams - he pleaded guilty. Thankfully.

I agree though. Defendants overwhelmingly throw the not-gulty plea at everything, hoping they get off on a technicality.

WG

 

[Cherchri]

DG's shoe size had to have been verified prior to all this talk of his shoe size of 13 wide at trial.

Wonder if either AL or KL's cell phones could have inadvertently recorded any of the goings on during the attack.. AL's phone being in a cardboard box seems odd. Surely LE would have checked that possibility?

Jmo

Mmhmm. But if we never heard it the jury never heard it.

Onthe issue of cellphones definitely odd that the phone was in a cardboard box. Willing to bet Alvin didn't put it in the box.

 

[Cherchri]

"Douglas Garland was living in B.C.’s Lower Mainland and working as a chemical mixer at the B.C. Institute of Technology when police found him. He managed to evade detection by stealing the identity of Matthew Kemper Hartley, a 14-year-old Cardston boy killed in a car crash in 1980."

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local...-case-has-link-to-liknes-family-drug-lab-past

Gravesite: https://billiongraves.com/grave/Matthew-Kemper-Hartley/1929021#/

There is another one too.. just have to find it. It mentions that MH's sister was also killed in that crash. She was 12.

DG had to have known the story to justify his entitlement to MH's identity. IMO.

Here: "The teen was at the wheel of a car near his family’s ranch in Cardston, about 3½ hours south of Calgary, when he hit a half-ton truck. His sister, Jill Lorene Hartley, 12, who was riding with him was also killed.

The siblings are buried together in the Church of Latter Day Saints cemetery."

Forgive my ignorance.. is that Lutheran?
https://www.google.ca/amp/news.nati...ed-with-possessing-false-id/amp?client=safari

No not Lutheran -Mormon.

 

[Cherchri]

I am having a hard time remembering but there was something strange about the car accident that had the boy and his sister. I know DG was some how connected to the accident. Did we ever find if he was directly involved or did he for some strange reason just try to say he was as an excuse for his breakdown? If he wasn't involved why would he say he was. Did he truly believe he was? This could speak alot into his mind state

There was no connection whatsoever. We exhausted that topic pretrial. They didn't know him and he didn't know them. He apparently lied about being in an accident that he claimed caused his breakdown. No evidence of an accident and certainly no connection the the poor Kempers' demise.

 

[Cherchri]

I was thinking the very same thing. From an early age he was very bright and very good with chemicals - perhaps they saw him as a natural born 'doctor'. Instead, he manufactured narcotics, got in trouble. With the Lutheran school, it sounds like they tried to strenghten him out. They then sent him to Edmonton to study medicine, and that was their second warning that all was not well. That was when he stole the identify of the deceased car accident victim.

Perhaps his parents looked at him as a genius when he was a young child and thought they were doing the right thing by giving him too much autonomy and not enough oversight / parenting. Alternatively, perhaps his little sisters were born and he wasn't given much attention ??

I think Doug Garland was thankful that his parents let him do what he wanted all the time.

Bingo!

 

[kmclaren]

Terri-Lynne McClintic also pleaded guilty (to 1st degree murder of Tori Stafford)...

Slebby asked on previous thread if a defendant has been known to pleade guilty in recent years.

In the extremely high profile case of multi-murderer ex- Colonel Russell Williams - he pleaded guilty. Thankfully.

I agree though. Defendants overwhelmingly throw the not-gulty plea at everything, hoping they get off on a technicality.

WG

 

[mrazda71]

Thanks for checking on that. I agree.
Maybe she saw a home video taken into evidence of him wearing what "looks like" shoes like that and may be brought out later but maybe the witness can only say they look like shoes like that and cant say for certain.

That could explain why they answered that way.

Or ... [emoji20] [emoji33] [emoji35] ... maybe there is video that Garland took during his crime?
Many murderers, especially the ones with a sexual element take photos and videos

 

[mrazda71]

From this link it says they found a shoe box matching and two others of most likely different shoes. So I do kind of wonder if he bought one extra large just for the purpose of the murder and to throw off investigators and he forgot to throw away the box. Maybe not to frame anyone in particular but just to make it look like it wasnt him.

It will depend if the other boxes are size 13 too. Surprised they didnt tell us what size box the other two were. He either always wears a 13 or he tried to not wear shoes that would match anything he could wear.

"they found three shoe boxes, including one for a Dr. Scholl's Delta 2 in size 13 wide, court heard."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/douglas-garland-murder-nathan-obrien-liknes-arrest-day-5-1.3944917


keeping the box around sounds like he wasnt too bright of a murderer planning.

Keeping the boxes AND the fact that they had 130!! Pairs of shoes ranging from child size 10 to adult 13 makes me think that someone in the Garland family has a hoarding problem!