Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #23

[CentralAlberta]

I am just as confused as others regarding the whole shoe size thing, men versus women.
Regarding the footwear in the photo, I noticed that most of the 'female' footwear is flat, although there is one pair of high heels. Of course they mentioned that they found 85 pairs of shoes and the photo only includes a portion of that.

Does anyone know what size shoes Garland's mother wears? I presume it isn't 12/13 but I haven't seen info in that regard.

In light of this women's shoe thing, I'm very surprized Mrs. Garland wasn't asked her shoe size.

 

[KMouse]

I think it will come out in the evidence that undercover officers attempted to get information from DG while in remand awaiting trial. Info relating to the chemicals used on the bodies...hence the return trip to the farm in March 2015.

I don't think so. I think that the return to the farm came as a result of more lab evidence coming back and police had to expand their search.

I just got up on today's tweets and I am heartbroken.

 

[KMouse]

In light of this women's shoe thing, I'm very surprized Mrs. Garland wasn't asked her shoe size.

Maybe the defence will bring her back and ask her. Although I am not sure why she wouldn't have been asked in the first place.

 

[kittymeow]

Friends, DG's parents clearly stated on trial day 1 that they have never had livestock on their farm. I don't know why we have forgotten this.

Well the pre-meditated purchase of the child handcuffs by this sick SOB, leads me to think that the kidnapping of a child was purposeful and Garland chose the night to abduct because there was also a child there.

I don't think it was chance that Nathan was taken at all.

JMO

Everything (even before the trial) has shown that DG never initially meant to harm Nathan, or knew he would be with his grandparents. DG's planning has been described as meticulous and thorough, and Nathan's sleepover has only ever been described as impromptu. Don't get me wrong, it's still horrible whether DG premeditated to hurt Nathan or not, but I simply don't believe that premediation is the case when it comes to Nathan. This is why DG was initially only charged with second degree murder for Nathan (until it was discovered a special circumstance of first degree would apply, as MAGA outlined above).

At this point we don't know why DG had hand cuffs that were described by LE today as either for a child or a small adult (they didn't specify only for a child) but I truly do not believe DG had these cuffs just for Nathan and planned ahead to use them on him. Again, everything shows that DG did not know Nathan was there. This was also in the crown's opening statement on day 1.

 

[Power of Two]

It is interesting because if he took a mens 13 and he was really wearing womens shoes then he could have found even larger womens sizes than a 13 that would have fit better. I have to wonder about a couple things about that.

He may have not wanted to buy them any larger if he was wearing a womens disguise because his feet would have stood out more than they already did with a womens 13. He may have purposely squeezed into a womens 13 to keep the shoe as small as possible so he could stay disguised and not draw attention to his feet.

Another possibility is he may have been infatuated with being "himself" or "herself" and matching his/her size may have been important to him/her.

Even another possibility is I searched some websites and you can find larger womens sizes but it is hard to do. A lot of stores only carry up to 12 or 13 or so in womens. So if he went shopping locally in person he may have been limited.

Here is an example. This store maxes out at size 13 in womens.

http://www.payless.com/womens/view-all-shoes/?prefn1=size&prefv1=11%7C12%7C13

Pretty sure there are many 2nd hand stores in the area. Most of those female shoes look used. I am pretty certain there would not be much attention paid to a man purchasing some random female shoes at Value Village in a big city. I really don't think he would have a problem buying them, though in a twisted way rather hope they belong to some other missing women and he can be nailed with that evidence

 

[Power of Two]

This was my train of thought when they brought up liquid nitrogen. I just wasn't sure if that is how it would work when poured over a human body. I'm sure a body wouldn't just shatter but it would still make it easier and less messy.

I don't think it would be poured over a body, as it would quickly disperse on contact with air. Rather, body parts could be immersed in it and made brittle.

 

[Power of Two]

Well the pre-meditated purchase of the child handcuffs by this sick SOB, leads me to think that the kidnapping of a child was purposeful and Garland chose the night to abduct because there was also a child there.

I don't think it was chance that Nathan was taken at all.

JMO

Maybe a planted listening device during the sale gave him information that JO and her 2 wee boys were there, as well. Maybe he wanted to take them all down? Perish the thought.

 

[KMouse]

In the last thread Kamille brought up the significance of the package of adult diapers coming from a hospital. I thought this was strange too when I read the tweet. Wouldn't it be easier to just go out and buy a package of adult diapers. How does one get Hospital diapers? Did he steal them? I haven't Googled it but I am wondering in the adult diaper fetish world if it is more desirable to have certain adult diapers. Like maybe it is more exciting to have Hospital diapers over regular store-bought ones. I never in my life thought I would put so much thought into this topic!

I have a family member in the hospital in a geriatric ward, there are adult diapers on racks in rooms as well as in the hallway. If I wanted to I could grab a handful every time I go visit. Nobody would notice.

 

[Power of Two]

There is no way a hospital would prefer reusable over disposable diapers IMO. For every reason we could possibly think of, and I'm sure we could come up with a lot. That is definitely not an area that a hospital is likely to cut costs in. And I've had a few experiences with family members in hospitals who required adult diapers and all were disposable.

MOO

Here is a link to a top of the line incontinence product which hospitals and care facilities use. If you care to explore the link you will find more information that you ever dreamed of. They are $60 for a package of 12, I believe. More people are walking around wearing an incontinence product than you can imagine, for multiple reasons, and unless you work in health care and are tuned in to it, you would never notice if someone had one on. They hold an amazing amount of body waste before needing changed. Sorry if this is TMI.
http://www.tena.ca/products/Products,en_CA,sc.html

 

[Power of Two]

I have a family member in the hospital in a geriatric ward, there are adult diapers on racks in rooms as well as in the hallway. If I wanted to I could grab a handful every time I go visit. Nobody would notice.

All true. I am a nurse.

 

[Dodes]

There is an grain auger in pictures of the south fence line (I think) so I would assume at one time it must have been some kind of grain farm. Is there any way to find out if, at one time, the Garlands owned more land and these 40 acres were subdivided off? Anyway to find out what Mr. Garland's occupation was?

From Day 2 of the trial:

Valerie Fortney Tweet:
Archie #garland, 86, retired from company now known as ATCO. He's having trouble hearing Crown even though he's speaking loudly.

FYI- ATCO is a gas company here in Alberta.

 

[minorone]

I don't think it would be poured over a body, as it would quickly disperse on contact with air. Rather, body parts could be immersed in it and made brittle.

I had a smaller cyst removed by my doctor with liquid nitrogen. The doctor applied the liquid nitrogen to the growth and it fell off within a couple of days. She did repeated treatments over a few months until the whole cyst disappeared. She did not want to apply too much as it could damage cells that were not part of the cyst.

 

[otto]

Here is a link to a top of the line incontinence product which hospitals and care facilities use. If you care to explore the link you will find more information that you ever dreamed of. They are $60 for a package of 12, I believe. More people are walking around wearing an incontinence product than you can imagine, for multiple reasons, and unless you work in health care and are tuned in to it, you would never notice if someone had one on. They hold an amazing amount of body waste before needing changed. Sorry if this is TMI.
http://www.tena.ca/products/Products,en_CA,sc.html

Way too much information! I'll never look at anyone the same again!

 

[otto]

I missed everything today, and a lot yesterday.
Is there any evidence yet that the victims were alive at the acreage?
Are they still sifting through evidence from the burn barrel?

 

[Kamille]

http://globalnews.ca/news/3203720/douglas-garland-triple-murder-trial-forensic-expert-testifies/

Men's or women's? Hard to say.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I missed everything today, and a lot yesterday.
Is there any evidence yet that the victims were alive at the acreage?
Are they still sifting through evidence from the burn barrel?

No evidence they were alive (yet), however the Crown warned family that tomorrow will be fine, but Monday is computer forensics and will be "very difficult" and "at times gruesome".

 

[Power of Two]

You have alot of catching up to do, otto! Been wondering where you were. I think we are going back and forth on the the issue of where they were deceased. There is a documented area at the back of the property of deadened grass.There is quite alot of commentary on the burning barrel, its contents, and the methodology used to sift and sort it all. There are several cataloged photos of the burning barrel contents.. ammunition, 2 different earrings, bone and teeth, and even what looks to me to be a partial brassiere hook (looks like a Mickey Mouse silhouette). There is so much evidence to digest, it has been tough all around.

 

[Female]

No evidence they were alive (yet), however the Crown warned family that tomorrow will be fine, but Monday is computer forensics and will be "very difficult" and "at times gruesome".

Well then, I'll mentally prepare. I'm going to sit in on Monday but figured I wouldn't find out what Mondays testimony was to cover until I was there since jury doesn't need to sit on Friday.

 

[gen_bug]

On day 1 of the trial, DG's parents stated they've never had animals on the farm.

They definately did have livestock at one point.

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney 2m2 minutes ago
Arhcie #Garland says it's been 10-15 years since they had livestock on the farm. Now talking about accused's relationship with Alvin Liknes.

 

[Power of Two]

http://globalnews.ca/news/3203720/douglas-garland-triple-murder-trial-forensic-expert-testifies/

Men's or women's? Hard to say.

These look to me to be generic unisex dollar store readers. I was also thinking that the glasses DG was wearing in one of the photos look like throw away glasses. I think the frames were kind of green in colour. I know one can buy prescription glasses online and, while they do the job, they do look to be of a lesser quality.