Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #5

[mrsu]

It was during a press conference that it was confirmed that the grandmother and the child's father had both declared bankruptcy in the past two years. This is new information that the grandfather had declared bankruptcy three weeks prior to his disappearance. The link is somewhere in the last few days, where the press conference comments were transcribed. It might have been Wendisan that transcribed the comments ... sorry, don't have a handy link.

Thanks so much. I missed that!

 

[SnooperDuper]

SnooperDuper, I am agreeing with you. I'm not saying that JO had to file with RO. I'm talking about the fallout of having declared bankruptcy down the road. When filling in applications, etc., for i.e., a mortgage. One spouse may have excellent credit, the other crappy for 5 to 7 years as it is glaringly apparent to the lender when they look at someone's credit history and seeing none, that they are a huge risk. In this instance, an accountant at that which makes it even worse in the lender's eyes. It's the bankrupt spouse's credit rating that hurts the union "overall" when trying to apply/get credit afterwards. Even something as simple as a rent application can be denied and oftentimes, a cosigner is requested. I know of one family who had to have one of the dad's actually take out the mortgage on their home and they paid him (who then paid the mortgage). Both didn't declare bankruptcy, just the husband did, but the bank didn't care they were flat out denied. That's what I mean by "default the other person..."

You're talking about situations where both parties are applying to rent or mortgage a property together and then yes, both parties' credit ratings are taken into consideration. However the simple solution is to put things in the name of one party. Bankruptcy doesn't cause you to have "no credit history", just a temporarily bad one, and if you are discharged and employed and carrying on from there, lenders will offer you new secured credit as on a home, for sure. It's just when you have no assets (renter) and little income that banks give you the stink eye. I don't think that things are "even worse in a lender's eyes" if a party who has NOT gone bankrupt also happens to be an accountant. It's irrelevant. RO and JO have good jobs in the oil industry: they would have been able to carry on without a problem (and no doubt, with much relief). If you have regular good income the fallout from bankruptcy is just not as severe as you suggest. Life goes on. You make payments for a year and then the only way is up.

 

[DaisyBlantyre]

If he lived on the acreage for High School which would have been grades 9-12 in Airdrie he would have likely attended George Mcdougall High School as it was the only high school in Airdrie at the time. Bert Church wasn't built until 1983. If he lived in downtown Calgary prior to living in the NE he wouldn't have attended Western Canada as it was a grade 10-12 school. If he lived in the NE he likely would have attended James Fowler High School, it was built in 1962 and was the designated school for most of that part the NE (I moved to NE Calgary in 1979) until Lester B Pearson was built sometime in the 1990s.

ACK! James Fowler yes! It was on the tip of my tongue but eluded me! :shame:

Thanks!

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Motive is money. They sold their house. Two new properties were bought to retire to. But the family was vague about their plans so maybe the AL and KL were on the outs and the family just wasn't made aware of it.. or maybe KL was hoping that selling everything and moving on (second chance) would change the dynamics of the marriage. For all anyone knows, AL might have been syphoning money from the businesses he was associated with. Maybe Al just didn't want to have to share what was left over? Just walk away from all the bad business ($800k in taxes owed, etc.) and just forget it all and 'disappear'. But he wouldn't be able to do that (divorce means split 50/50). Maybe he was feeling greedy.

Hopefully we'll find out and Nathan will be back with his family soon.

We don't know for sure that they had actually bought a home in Edmonton. And I'm not sure from the first presser with the family, where Jeff L mentioned their plans to go to Mazatlan, if he was saying they were just planning to go there or if they had bought an actual property there. If you watch that presser again I think you'll find he wasn't super clear/confident about answering these questions about home in Edmonton/their plans to go to Mexico. Also.......perhaps they told their family "one thing" but the actual "truth" was quite another.

The fact that AL had declared bankruptcy only a few days before they disappeared (as has been reported today in the media), I have to seriously wonder about their overall financial situation. Still strikes me as somewhat "odd" that they were having this estate sale and reportedly selling "EVERYTHING" in that home. No offense but based on the pics of their items in the Kijiji Ads, a lot of their items (at least in the ads) were pretty old-school, dated, totally out of style furniture that to most wouldn't even be worth selling or the stress and effort to have strangers traipsing through your home x 3 days to maybe buy it. One item I recall was a fig tree potted plant asking $50. Why not just give this to a family member? And who sells EVERYTHING?.............surely there are going to be items you're going to need in the next home you live in...............bedding, dishes, pots, microwave, beds, kitchen appliances, etc. Doesn't sound to me like they were well-off financially so not really in the position to be buying *EVERYTHING NEW* elsewhere.

And even though they sold their home in Dec 2013 for just over $700,000, we don't know how much equity they had in that home. Might have been very little if they previously refinanced mortgage in the past for debt consolidation or had a 2nd or 3rd mortgage.........or maybe huge home equity loans or business loans with home as collateral.

http://www.kijiji.ca/o-posters-other-ads/56563739

Hate to say it but it really sounds to me like people who were planning to start over "someplace else" and perhaps no REAL concrete plans elsewhere. IMO

 

[Chickadea]

This was a friend
http://www.canada.com/mobile/iphone/story.html?id=b528c83b-1958-40a5-8e02-5d31e13a2db8

So very sad, big hugs. Hoping he's still in jail.

 

[otto]

I found POI's family still living in NE Calgary in 1974 (Ancestry electoral lists) They lived around 84th avenue and 52nd street in the SaddleRidge Community. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddle_Ridge,_Calgary
Prior to moving to the NE, they lived near downtown in the southwest and Western Canada high school would have been his school.

Perhaps they bought the Airdrie acreage, and didn't move until POI finished high school? There were no high schools in the NE at that time, so POI would have had to travel to the NW, he could have attended Sir Winston Churchill or Crescent Heights high school if he didn't travel downtown to Western Canada.

Maybe he and his sister Patti attended Olds High School

http://jhoare.webs.com/

 

[SnooperDuper]

<rsbm>

The fact that AL had declared bankruptcy only a few days before they disappeared (as has been reported today in the media)

No, AL did not declare bankruptcy and that was nowhere in the media today. His business recently shut down. AL was not bankrupt.

 

[otto]

<rsbm>



No, AL did not declare bankruptcy and that was nowhere in the media today. His business recently shut down. AL was not bankrupt.

"Detectives have interviewed former staffers of a freshly bankrupt gas exploration company founded and managed by missing Calgary man Alvin Liknes, Metro has learned."

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/10...any-went-bankrupt-weeks-before-disappearance/

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Maybe he and his sister Patti attended Olds High School

http://jhoare.webs.com/

Olds is much further than George Mcdougall High School which is right in Airdrie.

 

[Cherchri]

Meghan Grant &#8207;@CBCMeg
Douglas Garland to face new charge Wed for unlawfully possessing a bank card. Unrelated to #AmberAlert - related to stolen ID charge #cbc

https://twitter.com/CBCMeg

Having searched for the past hour, I can find no other reference to this bank card issue. In the tweet it makes no mention that it's in the name of MKH nor any other name. I am thinking it is likely AL or KL's bank card. Have you found any other specifics?

 

[ResearchQuest]

The card is not necessarily from a fake identity but, rather, could be from a card that does not belong to him. LE's wording is probably vague on purpose.

 

[MSNurse]

Motive is money. They sold their house. Two new properties were bought to retire to. But the family was vague about their plans so maybe the AL and KL were on the outs and the family just wasn't made aware of it.. or maybe KL was hoping that selling everything and moving on (second chance) would change the dynamics of the marriage. For all anyone knows, AL might have been syphoning money from the businesses he was associated with. Maybe Al just didn't want to have to share what was left over? Just walk away from all the bad business ($800k in taxes owed, etc.) and just forget it all and 'disappear'. But he wouldn't be able to do that (divorce means split 50/50). Maybe he was feeling greedy.

Hopefully we'll find out and Nathan will be back with his family soon.

I like the way you think.
Also...the disappearance took place the last day of the month. Was there a major debt due on July 1. Seems that weeks leading up to the disappearance, there was desperation for quick cash flow, sell it all, flyers distributed from casinos where they had likely hoped to hit the big one, opening home to strangers in hopes of making some quick cash. Was the estate sale their last ditch effort to pay someone they owed and time just merely ran out?

JMO

 

[Carli]

Just to throw another speculation into the ring - first underscoring the associated IMO - I can't help but wonder if there may not be an entirely different tack that holds potential explanation. What if the ex-common law husband of one of AL's daughters - the guy who "admitted to a life of crime" and who was recently released from prison having just finished spending the last four years incarcerated because of her - the guy who broke into an elderly couple's bedroom while they slept waving his handgun and demanding their "advice". What if someone like that broke into the Liknes grandparent's bedroom, demanding to know, at gunpoint, where his ex-wife, their daughter is. What if things went suddenly pear shaped at that point. Just musing here. Expressing MHOs. Hoping that may be one of the several lines of inquiry LE is pursuing. Hoping even more pointedly, that any mystery here will yet prove to be benign and that the L family and little NO will soon be found safe and sound.

 

[SnooperDuper]

"Detectives have interviewed former staffers of a freshly bankrupt gas exploration company founded and managed by missing Calgary man Alvin Liknes, Metro has learned."

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/10...any-went-bankrupt-weeks-before-disappearance/

And just to clarify one more time, AL was not bankrupt. His business apparently was, but he was not.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

<rsbm>



No, AL did not declare bankruptcy and that was nowhere in the media today. His business recently shut down. AL was not bankrupt.

It didn't "shut down" -- it went bankrupt. And yes it was in the media today: http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/10...any-went-bankrupt-weeks-before-disappearance/

 

[supernovaNic]

So a truck that just happens to be recorded in the neighborhood at the time of the alleged crime, just happens to look like one driven by someone who just happens to have family, and previous "business" dealings with one of the alleged victims... That would indeed be a case of 'wrong place, wrong time'.

Yeah, if those are coincidences, he's one unlucky dude.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Having searched for the past hour, I can find no other reference to this bank card issue. In the tweet it makes no mention that it's in the name of MKH nor any other name. I am thinking it is likely AL or KL's bank card. Have you found any other specifics?

There was a MSM quote in a previous thread that used the name of the false identity.

 

[otto]

Olds is much further than George Mcdougall High School which is right in Airdrie.

The acreage is in the Rockyview County, so the school district would be in the Rockyview County, although the parents could pay additional school fees for their children to attend a school in Calgary. I don't think it really matters where he attended high school, as that was 40 years ago.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

sorry, duplicate and triplicate posts, stupid Shaw/computer!

 

[ElleElle]

There might be drugs in Calgary, but that doesn't mean that there are mob connections, or drug connections, to oil industry executives and oil company head offices.

Sure. Let's agree to disagree because I believe within any business. ie: Canadian Gov't - Brazeau :giggle: there seems to be a link between mob and cashflow.