Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #7

[Wondergirl]

Wow! Very interesting…a whole article about WS! I wonder how many reporters read this thread?!

There are a wide variety of professionals that read and participate in this forum

 

[Watson-1975]

Im currently trying to investigate a money trail, I have been doing a lot of searching, 1 thing I'm not quite sure on and could use some help.

IIRC - AL and KL home was not on title as theirs, I believe it was listed as owned by AL's brother business! could someone confirm this and the possible link to the information regarding that.

 

[ztzt]

Sadly in the McStay case I don't think they have arrested the murderer or murderers But this disappearance did remind me of the McStay family.

I'd go as far as saying that, UNLIKE in McStay case, I do not believe anyone in the immediate family was involved, in any sinister way, in the disappearance of these 3 people.

 

[BC4Me]

No, it's another brother Cliff. Quote from http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...l-mysteriously-vanished-after-an-estate-sale/
:
-------Begin Quote-------
Cliff Liknes said he decided to pay a visit to his brother’s home in southwest Calgary on Monday morning after Alvin didn’t answer his phone.

When Cliff arrived, though, his brother was gone, and police were all over the scene. That’s how he found out.

“I can’t even fathom what’s going on. Nobody in my family knows,” Cliff Liknes told the Herald.

“It’s a terrible thing … it just doesn’t make any sense.”

There’s something not right here and we don’t know [what it is]. I sure hope they find the little guy and my brother and his wife
Liknes had no doubt his brother Alvin had not abducted the grandchild.

“He loved the child to death,” he said.

“That’s his boy. There’s something not right here and we don’t know (what it is).

“I sure hope they find the little guy and my brother and his wife.”
--------End Quote-------

Why didn't he call Kathryn's cell when his brother didn't answer his phone? I'm assuming that he would have had her number. I would be interested to know what kind of relationship these two brothers had with each other.

 

[Sillybilly]

Im currently trying to investigate a money trail, I have been doing a lot of searching, 1 thing I'm not quite sure on and could use some help.

IIRC - AL and KL home was not on title as theirs, I believe it was listed as owned by AL's brother business! could someone confirm this and the possible link to the information regarding that.

Much earlier in one of the threads, it was said that AL and KL's home was in AL's name only. You may be thinking of the property where Alvin's brother AL and FL have the business in the Evansburg area. IIRC, THAT is the property where Alvin and his brother were on either title or mortgage together.

HTH

 

[Carli]

Not a bad theory at all.
But there is evidence in the house that the L's and N did not leave on their own volition.
What that evidence is, we don't know, but it's serious enough to suspect foul play.

Yes, that's true, but you know, 200 or so people were traipsing through that house over a two day period - picking up things and putting them down somewhere else - tipping over furniture or upturning china items looking for trademarks - breaking fragile things and surreptitiously shoving the evidence into the sofa cusions - dragging stuff off rugs to have a better look at a rug's design/condition - carting items from room to another with the thought of buying, then having a change of mind (so blankets end up in the bathtub or broken plant pots on the kitchen counter for instance.) Roam-thru-the-house moving sales always end up looking like a total disaster zone, IMO. You'd need helpers in every single room to keep some semblance of order. And yes, in the sparks of feeding frenzy associated with such sales, somebody could very well have hurt themselves. Somebody's child playing with the carving knives while oblivious mom is in discussion with an antiques dealer on the phone - somebody checking if the chainsaw works - somebody drops an cast iron frying pan on their foot. I dunno, a thousand possibilities that would definitely lead to one of the L family trying to clean up the mess. If there are questions here I guess the answers would depend, first of all, on the certainty of the evidence LE has collected and secondly from KO who would probably know, more or less how the place looked when she left at 10 pm. I say "probably" because presumably the time from when the sale closed down, say around 7 or so, would have involved having something to eat - ordering take-out? - exchanging stories about the day's customers and toting up the meagre proceeds most such sales garner. Just general chitchat and info exchange - "You sold my WHAT??" Anyway, I gravely doubt time would have been spent going through the house checking on the condition of everything. MOO, IMHO.

The biggest trouble with my accident theory, although it counters all the "murder most foul" scenarios, is that if a crime is responsible for their disappearance there still remains a chance that the family will be found safe and well. If they fell victim to benign unintended consequences, the chances of that are probably much slimmer but far from impossible, IMO. IMHO.

Hopefully Calgarians, even those outside the city in all directions are just having another look around their places - maybe taking a Sunday drive up the backroads - whatever. It might not help anything. But then again, it might. MOO. (Keeping in mind that, in the accident scenario, the family knew they'd have to be back by 10, because KO was coming to pick up the boy. So, if they left home at, say about 8 AM, there's a two hour interval. Say 35-40 minutes to get to the destination, 20 minutes to offload whatever-it-is and chew the fat with the new owner; 20 minutes while KL is at the grocery store and overall 35-40 minutes back home. ) MOO, IMHO. Perhaps it wasn't a delivery but an early run to the dump with the first load of trash after the sale. Can you get sidetracked into danger while driving any of the roads to the various dumps? Say if you had to drop something off to somebody on the way?

Just wanted to add that a most valuable "Hints from Heloise" tip is that if you have a really heavy thing to move, the easiest way to accomplish the task is to get some carpet under it, then pull the carpet or push the item easily along. Obviously, any liquid on the floor below or otherwise on the bottom of the carpet, would definitely smear during this process. Until LE confirms that is blood on the floor, one can't ignore the other possibilities - a tipped over paint can, for example - that could account for coloured liquid on the floor and a subsequent effort to clean it up. MOO. IMHO.

 

[ilovepierre]

And serious enough for LE to state someone was in medical distress which I believe could only be deduced by a significant amount of blood at the scene. :-(

Yes, I agree

 

[ztzt]

Websleuths, O'B and L case in the news...

http://www2.canada.com/calgaryherald/iphone/news/latest/story.html?id=10026298

"Armchair detectives trying to crack missing persons case on web forum
Sunday, July 13, 2014"

Has WS ever been credited for helping solving a case?

 

[ilovepierre]

If this is the case, it is weird for sure and wouldn't the person have to know KL's login passwords? This may be a naive question but is it possible through computer forensics for an expert to find the IP address of the computer that logged into that FB site?

Not unless she stays logged in like most people.

 

[ilovepierre]

Anyone have a myspace account to have a peek at Kathryn's 1 connection?

https://myspace.com/kathryn.liknes

Her 1 connection is MySpace.

 

[Krystine]

Realtors in Alberta were introduced to money laundering in 2007, and it became mandatory to take a course to become more informed. New legislation changed the way Realtors did business, and every transaction required picture ID of the buyer, and it fell upon the agent to verify who their buyers were. I believe it is called Compliance.
I remember thinking that this course could almost be an introduction to money laundering with the amount of information shared.
Something twigged when I realized that Mrs.L had a buyer for a Calgary apartment building, and was looking for one through this buy/sell site. It may have been a running ad on that site for months or years.
I also wonder if there were no such apartment buildings for sale on the Calgary MLS market for the length of time the ad ran that Mrs. L could sell to her buyer.
Aside from the obvious higher commission for both listing and selling an apartment building, could there have been other reasons for scouting out one herself? The easiest thing for an agent is to work with what is available on MLS, commissions are guaranteed and it is uncomplicated for the agent with the buyer. Any connected agent will also know other agents who have pocket listings that they will share.

 

[Watson-1975]

do we know if either KL or Al used other social media like snapchat or instagram perhaps even discussion boards in either realestate or the oil and gas industry

 

[Sillybilly]

Carli, how would your accident theory factor in the green truck seen several times during those critical hours and appearing to lead LE to a person who happens to have a grudge against AL?

 

[Sillybilly]

Realtors in Alberta were introduced to money laundering in 2007, and it became mandatory to take a course to become more informed. New legislation changed the way Realtors did business, and every transaction required picture ID of the buyer, and it fell upon the agent to verify who their buyers were. I believe it is called Compliance.
I remember thinking that this course could almost be an introduction to money laundering with the amount of information shared.
Something twigged when I realized that Mrs.L had a buyer for a Calgary apartment building, and was looking for one through this buy/sell site. It may have been a running ad on that site for months or years.
I also wonder if there were no such apartment buildings for sale on the Calgary MLS market for the length of time the ad ran that Mrs. L could sell.
Aside from the obvious higher commission for both listing and selling an apartment building, could there have been other reasons for scouting out a large, expensive property for a buyer? The easiest thing for an agent is to work with what is available on MLS, commissions are guaranteed and it is uncomplicated for the agent with the buyer.

Sounds to me like ye old unscrupulous trick "I've already got someone interested in your property". She may not have had a buyer but was simply stating such in order to generate listings. Or, did she in fact have a buyer who had given her money in trust or paid part of a commission up front, anticipating her work and expertise in obtaining a property?

 

[Carli]

And serious enough for LE to state someone was in medical distress which I believe could only be deduced by a significant amount of blood at the scene. :-(

Not really, IMO. Diabetics need their insulin. Asthma sufferers need their ventilators. Etc. etc. Their are many conditions that are life threatening in the absence of regular medications. If needed medicines were left behind, that would definitely constitute the potential for medical distress.

 

[otto]

Not really, IMO. Diabetics need their insulin. Asthma sufferers need their ventilators. Etc. etc. Their are many conditions that are life threatening in the absence of regular medications. If needed medicines were left behind, that would definitely constitute the potential for medical distress.

Claims about medical distress due to medication need to be made by a doctor. If police are making claims about medical distress, it probably has something to do with the violence they described at the scene.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Just on FB, it appears KL was playing games yesterday, last Thursday and Tuesday. How weird is this!?

Someone may have already asked (or answered) but how can you tell when someone is playing games on FB? I thought that kind of activity was limited unless you're FB friends with the person.

 

[deugirtni]

How do we know the 'family home' was only in AL's name (prior to it being sold in December 2013)? If AL is on title as part owner of a property belonging to the business of Alvin's bro and his wife FL, then that property is also at risk.... (only if AL had signed personal guarantees to corporate debtors).. what a mess.

Much earlier in one of the threads, it was said that AL and KL's home was in AL's name only. You may be thinking of the property where Alvin's brother AL and FL have the business in the Evansburg area. IIRC, THAT is the property where Alvin and his brother were on either title or mortgage together.

HTH

 

[Sillybilly]

Not really, IMO. Diabetics need their insulin. Asthma sufferers need their ventilators. Etc. etc. Their are many conditions that are life threatening in the absence of regular medications. If needed medicines were left behind, that would definitely constitute the potential for medical distress.

from:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1445696/t...amily-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/

“Based on the evidence at the scene, somebody would be in medical distress,” said Andrus, adding he expected forensic lab results within several days to a week.

<bbm>

Sounds like they were going to conduct tests on whatever that evidence was, so I doubt it would consist of medications of the missing. Also, the ME wouldn't be called in wrt medications.

 

[Carli]

Carli, how would your accident theory factor in the green truck seen several times during those critical hours and appearing to lead LE to a person who happens to have a grudge against AL?

Well, admittedly my accident theory requires a bit of work :thinking: but, when it comes to the green truck I suggest there could be any number of reasons. It turns out the green truck is not that incredibly rare after all and it appears that many people held grudges involving this family. House sales almost always have something lying around outside. Maybe this was just the usual garage sale thief just getting up enough nerve to steal something he'd spied in the driveway. Maybe it was the irate ex-husband of somebody else down the block driving around spying on his ex-wife's place. Maybe some drug dealer was driving around waiting for his customer with the overdue account to appear in his driveway on the next block. Maybe a workaholic tradesman with insomnia was scouting the neighborhood to see which houses he should pitch for new driveway sealer or a paint job or new gutters. I dunno. MOO. IMHO. Anyway, there are far better imaginations than mine on WS that can construct something viable. :truce: