Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #8

[matou]

Douglas Garland made his first court appearance in Calgary on Wednesday on three murder charges connected with the disappearance of five-year-old Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents.
The case has been adjourned to Aug. 14 because Crown prosecutors are still waiting for disclosure.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-appears-in-court-on-murder-charges-1.2708571

 

[ResearchQuest]

This could have happened:

DG calls by the house, things get heated, AL & DG take it outside, sit in DG's truck so not to bother neighbours.

DG kills AL. Leave's AL's body in the truck.

Goes back into house, subdues KL and NO in some way.

Gets back in truck. Takes AL's body somewhere, probably the farm.

Drives back to L's house, removes KL and NO. Neither are heavy.

Drives back to farm.

Uses chemical and farm knowledge to dispose of victims.

Sorry, I hate thinking like this, and typing it, but it's just so obvious that something like this happened.

He may have then taken evidence and scattered it elsewhere (blankets to landfill, etc).

 

[Peace777]

Adjourned to Aug 14th. AL's son and DG's sister in court http://live.calgaryherald.com/Event/Amber_alert_The_search_for_Nathan_OBrien_and_his_grandparents

 

[ResearchQuest]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ear-old-and-his-grandparents/article19628675/

Good summary here. Perhaps Douglas and Al had more recent business via Winter Petroleum? It folded days before and article states some people were not compensated?

Best article I've read yet on this case.

 

[ResearchQuest]

I have a theory. Perhaps DG came to the house, was let in because they knew him, and after a bitter argument, he shot and killed AL. While threatening to harm NO, he forces KL to help him drag AL out of the house in a blood soaked bed cover (hence the drag marks). She would have done anything to protect NO. I think NO and KL were forced to leave the house alive after AL was killed. At this point, they were driven to another location where DG killed the remaining two. I also think there is a decent chance that the 3 bodies are not together. I also would be surprised if they are ever found.

I hate this so much! Another poster said that NO should be spending his week at the spray park and I have not been able to get that out of my head. That's exactly where he should be.

MOO

I agree with you.

 

[stan laurel]

I agree. It would take a lot of strength to move AL, he must have been alive when he left the house.

I think upon entering the home NO was killed and AL and KL were taken from the home still alive.

That is the only scenario that would explain the 2nd degree charge.

I am assuming AL and KL would have been tied up somehow b/c AL could have easily overpowered DG.

nobody/neighbour would question a handcart/dolly removing a large box from a house on the day of an estate sale. Also, if one is familiar with moving dead weight (like most farmers/ranchers are) then such things are not so hard.

 

[Wondergirl]

We're all aware of DG's criminal past, here's more details you can look up on the BC Courts public website of course, assuming this is indeed the same DRG. (link: https://eservice.ag.gov.bc.ca/cso/criminal/file/charges.do?fileID=474900.0007) Hopefully this is okay to post mods!

Notice these are from 1992 and for BC only:
42183-1-H 1 23-Oct-1992 FDA - 39(1) Traffic in a controlled drug Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 2 23-Oct-1992 CCC - 353(1)(b) possessing automobile master key Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 3 23-Oct-1992 CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 4 23-Oct-1992 CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 5 23-Oct-1992 CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 6 23-Oct-1992 CCC - 354 Possession of property obtained by crime Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 7 20-Nov-1992 CCC - 355(a) PSP - Over $1,000 Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 8 20-Nov-1992 CCC - 355(b) PSP - Under $1,000 Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
42183-1-H 9 23-Oct-1992 CCC - 90(1) Possession of a prohibited weapon Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert

Also, I searched under the alias Matthew Hartley and the name Douglas John Garland comes up with these charges from 1998: (BBM):
41250-2-C 2 02-Oct-1998 CCC - 355(a) PSP Over $5,000 Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS John Richmond BC
41250-2-C 4 02-Oct-1998 CCC - 129(a) wilfully resisting or obstructing a peace officer Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS John Richmond BC

And these aliases come up also:
Alias GARLAND, DOUGLAS
Alias HARTLEY, MATTHEW Kemper
Alias GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
Alias GARLAND, DOUGLAS John

I wonder if the Alberta Court files have a lot also? Quite the past even if he *might* be innocent until proven guilty. Sorry for the super long post, lost of info here. Oh and PSP=possesion of stolen property which I didn't know what it meant until I looked it up!

Great info on the aliases, thank-you.

 

[Wondergirl]

I was thinking more along the lines of all 3 being taken from the home, that Nathan might be considered to still be in the care/control of his grandparents, and possibly the Crown felt they might not be able to prove the kidnapping aspect.

That is exactly what the retired forensic investigator mentioned in his terrific video interview, that I linked to last night. Everyone here should watch it.

 

[Peace777]

Would this entire thread be better in "in the news" or "up to the minute" instead of missing. The cops did charge DG with murder.

I think it should still be in the missing forum as 3 people are still missing and till any bodies are found then move to different forum category. But maybe the topic of DG's arrest could have it's own forum discussion now?(not that much will be being reported on the news of DG till his trial) JMO and:twocents:

 

[KMouse]

nobody/neighbour would question a handcart/dolly removing a large box from a house on the day of an estate sale. Also, if one is familiar with moving dead weight (like most farmers/ranchers are) then such things are not so hard.

I am going to guess that the drag marks are from dragging them after being murdered...wrapped up in bed linens.

The sequence of events and time....not sure. It would have to be quick so that nobody had a chance to get to a phone to call 911.

 

[aber]

I think if the killer wanted to take the pain to make sure the remains not to be found, he'd scatter them in many different locations.

I disagree.. one location is harder to find than several. That would increase the chances of being found. (IMO of course)

 

[Wondergirl]

It may not be of much use, but I found the obituaries for MKH and his sister. (Hope I've done this right)

http://lethbridgeherald.newspaperarchive.com/lethbridge-herald/1980-10-30/page-44

View attachment 54946

Thanks, Jackie, good stuff.

 

[KMouse]

I disagree.. one location is harder to find than several. That would increase the chances of being found. (IMO of course)

and increase chances of the perp being seen.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Adjourned to Aug 14th. AL's son and DG's sister in court http://live.calgaryherald.com/Event/Amber_alert_The_search_for_Nathan_OBrien_and_his_grandparents

Just to clarify, it doesn't say that DG's sister was in court it says that ALjr was in court and stated that his wife PG was shattered by the events. I feel so terrible for her.

 

[aber]

and increase chances of the perp being seen.

Absolutely..

As far as Drumheller/Canmore etc. goes.. assuming he only used his truck, they probably have a pretty good idea of his travels thus focusing on the area around Airdrie, asking people to check their land etc.

Another thought - I find it a little hard to believe that with the relatively close family connection no one knew about him using another identity/previous charges... any thoughts on this? (I don't want to imply they protected him but a meth lab at his parents.. I think the word would have gotten out on that one)

 

[Wondergirl]

Otto what about Drumheller. There's a link showing Northern Pressure Systems there with a map
http://www.zipleaf.ca/Companies/Northern-Pressure-Systems-Inc that would be a good hiding place imo. Yip. Just checked and it's very close to Airdrie. Just got cold shivers. I think Drumheller would be an excellent spot given what it is!

Good thought. However, it does take over an hour to get to Drumheller from Airdrie.

 

[Peace777]

Just to clarify, it doesn't say that DG's sister was in court it says that ALjr was in court and stated that his wife PG was shattered by the events. I feel so terrible for her.

Ooops stand corrected :tyou:

 

[Wondergirl]

He had 5 days to go there Stan.

Maybe.

I believe that the time frame on the murders is prior to Wednesday, July 2nd 2014.

The reason I believe this is due to the neighbour viewing the lights on in the middle of the night in the greenhouse between Tuesday and Wednesday, and the "garbage" being burned all day Wednesday.

Garland was finishing up all disposal of the crime by Wednesday, July 2nd, 2014, IMO.

 

[Peace777]

I think the idea that DG is obsessive compulsive is wrong, meticulous yes, but not OC. To be honest, if DG were to research abductions and what NOT to do, this website would be the place to look for such ideas. He's very lateral thinking (if you read his argument for collecting E.I and winning the case). My guess is that if he's a hunter/fisherman, he dumped the remains in Ghost Reservoir, which is deep and always moving, and it's not far from Airdrie if you know the roundabout way.

his case on employment insurance; http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/...2005/03/03/garland-v-m-n-r-2005-tcc-176.shtml

Ghost Lake; 51.224872, -114.713798

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Lake_(Alberta)

 

[Cherchri]

Good thought. However, it does take over an hour to get to Drumheller from Airdrie.

Yes but he had 5 days to go out there Wondergirl. We don't know if he was disposing of entire remains or ashes? The fact that the company representing the apparatus they had a falling out over has premises in Drumheller gets me thinking.......