CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[Sillybilly]

Puppyraiser, I second this and Suzie would third it!

There has to be something, some secret or encounter from her past, that frightened her enough to make the statement that she feared she would be murdered in her home.

Just thinking odds here ..

There aren't that many elderly women who are murdered, let alone whose murder involves a "sexual component". Of all the elderly women who have been murdered and/or murdered with a sexual component, how many of them predicted that they would murdered and raped? To my knowledge NONE ... therefore AG stands alone in that regard. It does seem to be the most unique aspect of this case, therefore maybe it really is the most important key to solving Audrey's case.

Have we ever found anything at all on AG's first husband LB or her second husband (name escapes me)? Is it possible that AG had the goods on one of them (or somebody else more current in her life) and the threat of murder/rape is related to knowledge that she held?

When AG made that statement to DG, did he not think to enquire what on earth made her feel that way?

IF AG is one and the same as baryon who was posting on the gun forum in 2007, then it seems more likely that her concern related to someone more current in her life. So, yes .. it is critical that LE determine if that particular baryon = AG, and when she made her statement to DG that basically predicted her own demise.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Maybe it's time to think of the men who murder and why:

1. Serial killers (they're sick, probably began in childhood with torturing/killing animals).

2. Husbands/partners (they reach a so-called breaking point for a some reason - another woman/addictions/money troubles/etc.).

3. Organised crime (they're professionals in the underworld and in the hitman game).

Have I missed a group?

---------------------

ETA - I did some research:

LINK - http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...IErHf2&sig=AHIEtbRMW_HwrrGQ-W1DLmK0mBdNIJZzUg

 

[dotr]

I once had a neighbour who liked to drink...alot who said that they would probably die one day from falling off a barstool and hitting their head.
Well, what do you know, but maybe 10 years later- I found out that this person died after falling backward on a barstool ...
There had been a little talk about that, because the person had been in an abusive type relationship- but there you go, a fall at the bar it was.
Was this a self-fufilled prophesy, or a logical conclusion for someone who often sits on high barstools in bars drinking until they fall, or is this a person , who for whatever reason- wanted to die that way and did what it took to achieve that goal?
Some thought that the abusive partner of the deceased , may have "helped" that scenerio play out in some way...

 

[Sillybilly]

Thinking of all AG's former spouses .. if they were in any way abusive, I feel certain AG would have some derogatory comments about them throughout her many years as a single woman. The worst thing we've heard is that she referred to Alan as "fart face" ... which IMO is almost an endearment compared to how some peeps refer to their exes.

Although the following article deals specifically with serial killers, I found the following statement of interest as it relates to "Charismatic Killers":

from:
http://www.livescience.com/13712-long-island-serial-killer-psychology.html

One thing almost all of the serial killers he's interviewed have in common is a desire to convince him that they're good people at heart, touting their musical or artistic talents or all the good things they've done in life, Samenow said.

"I remember one guy who said, 'Well, just because I killed somebody doesn't make me a bad person,'" Samenow said.

Although we don't know if AG was killed by a "serial killer", every serial killer has a first kill.

ETA: AG even retained fondness for foods that she associated with her last husband ... specifically the Texas Stollen, and the spaghetti sauce that PK says AG "loved to death".

 

[Hazel]

IF AG is one and the same as baryon who was posting on the gun forum in 2007, then it seems more likely that her concern related to someone more current in her life. So, yes .. it is critical that LE determine if that particular baryon = AG, and when she made her statement to DG that basically predicted her own demise.

<<respectfully snipped>>
....And wasn't it in 2007 that she decided it was time for her to put her things in order and she made her Will?

Which brings me back to her computers -- why is it than in Lachlan's case we knew that LE took his computer to have it forensically analyzed, but we have heard nothing of that sort in Audrey's case?

 

[nicgumshoe]

Maybe it's time to think of the men who murder and why:

1. Serial killers (they're sick, probably began in childhood with torturing/killing animals).

2. Husbands/partners (they reach a so-called breaking point for a some reason - another woman/addictions/money troubles/etc.).

3. Organised crime (they're professionals in the underworld and in the hitman game).

Have I missed a group?

---------------------

ETA - I did some research:

LINK - http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...IErHf2&sig=AHIEtbRMW_HwrrGQ-W1DLmK0mBdNIJZzUg

I guess there's also:

- Spree Killers: kills a bunch of people in one spree. A bank robber/someone on the run comes to mind. Or someone who has a psychological breakdown and kills all victims in that phase. ie: he doesn't have a cooling down period, then go out and kill again.

-Mass Murderers: I guess this is the kind that "goes postal" and kills all victims in a post office, McDonalds at one time. They figure the world is against them, so they turn against the world.

 

[nicgumshoe]

<<respectfully snipped>>
....And wasn't it in 2007 that she decided it was time for her to put her things in order and she made her Will?

Which brings me back to her computers -- why is it than in Lachlan's case we knew that LE took his computer to have it forensically analyzed, but we have heard nothing of that sort in Audrey's case?

It could be that LE aren't saying what was there because that's part of their game plan in holding back info on what's missing.

For example: if they say to a POI, "what did you do with the PC's?" Then he might trip up and say something indicative of him being at the scene like: "I didn't take that ugly polkadot (or other descriptive word) laptop"?

 

[Hazel]

Thinking of all AG's former spouses .. if they were in any way abusive, I feel certain AG would have some derogatory comments about them throughout her many years as a single woman. The worst thing we've heard is that she referred to Alan as "fart face" ... which IMO is almost an endearment compared to how some peeps refer to their exes.

<<<respectfully snipped>>> three questions:

( 1 ) If she didn't like the last name Doveika, why didn't she change it when marrying any of her two previous husbands?


( 2 ) Can't recall if she changed her first name at the same time she married AG. Did she marry previously as Otte Wilma D. or as Audrey D? Did she drop the second name Wilma?

( 3 ) Just Googled Wilma Doveika, and found this odd site: http://shirts.meetees.com/Doveika.html haven't checked it yet, seems to be some kind of glitch, don't know if it just my computer, or there is mention of Audrey there?

 

[nicgumshoe]

Thinking of all AG's former spouses .. if they were in any way abusive, I feel certain AG would have some derogatory comments about them throughout her many years as a single woman. The worst thing we've heard is that she referred to Alan as "fart face" ... which IMO is almost an endearment compared to how some peeps refer to their exes.

Although the following article deals specifically with serial killers, I found the following statement of interest as it relates to "Charismatic Killers":

from:
http://www.livescience.com/13712-long-island-serial-killer-psychology.html


Although we don't know if AG was killed by a "serial killer", every serial killer has a first kill.

ETA: AG even retained fondness for foods that she associated with her last husband ... specifically the Texas Stollen, and the spaghetti sauce that PK says AG "loved to death".

I think folks are more likely to make derogatory remarks about people they don't fear, or don't fear much. She may have really feared one or both of the first spouses and wanted to forget all about him/them. It's like kids who get bullied; they tend to become quiet and withdrawn.

Also, she may have wanted to keep quiet about her first two marriages because she was so young, and that period was not really reflective of who she became.

 

[nicgumshoe]

<<<respectfully snipped>>> three questions:

( 1 ) If she didn't like the last name Doveika, why didn't she change it when marrying any of her two previous husbands?


( 2 ) Can't recall if she changed her first name at the same time she married AG. Did she marry previously as Otte Wilma D. or as Audrey D? Did she drop the second name Wilma?

( 3 ) Just Googled Wilma Doveika, and found this odd site: http://shirts.meetees.com/Doveika.html haven't checked it yet, seems to be some kind of glitch, don't know if it just my computer, or there is mention of Audrey there?

According to Part 1 of the Wells story,

"Otte changed her name to Audrey as a teenager. "

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

 

[Sillybilly]

Thinking about my statement that every serial killer has a first kill ...

A serial killer doesn't meet that designation because their personality traits have changed ... they reach it because the personality traits existed before they went on to kill one, then two and three people before being labelled a serial killer. IOW, we can all have psychopaths in our lives, none of whom ever go on to kill anyone. But of those psychopathic personalities who kill, they initiallly existed only as psychopathic personalities until such time as they progressed to killing one and more people.

AG was a pretty savvy babe ... educated, intelligent, sophisticated (not necessarily in the sense of style/fashion, but comfortable in her own skin). I would hazard a guess that her associates would project as reasonably sophisticated and intelligent people, or at the very least, decent people albeit maybe not as educated. Was there someone in AG's life who exhibits the underlying psychopathic traits?

I know what I mean but probably sound like i'm rambling. Am i making any sense here?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Just responding to a number of queries/comments posted by you guys above:

1. As a high school teacher, AG might have prefered the name Gleave because it doesn't sound foreign. We must remember - teachers get bullied, too. God forbid *anyone* in a high school setting should be 'different' than all the rest.

2. Were all of the people in AG's coffee group males? This still strikes me as a tad off. (I have a group of friends who meet often and it's a mixture of men, women, married, divorced, widowed, etc.).

3. Next week is Nov. 24th - the National Day To End Violence Against Women. I'm wondering if the killer/attacker was set off by that day last year when SL and then AG were assaulted/killed?

:dunno:

----------

ETA: Oh, I almost forgot to post something. I'm a FIRM believer in "what we think, we become". For example, if I drive to the bank and during my trip there I keep saying to myself - I just KNOW I'll be robbed when I exit the bank. Merely by putting that thought/vibration out there into the Universe, I'm creating it as a reality. This goes back to the drunk falling off the stool and dying. Perhaps it also 'helped' create AG's worst fears becoming reality?

Did that make sense to anyone? Or, am I completely :nuts:?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

According to Part 1 of the Wells story,

"Otte changed her name to Audrey as a teenager. "

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

There we go - peer pressure to fit in/not be different/not get bullied/etc. Being "normal" in the eyes of society can be quite a chore!!

 

[nicgumshoe]

Thinking about my statement that every serial killer has a first kill ...

A serial killer doesn't meet that designation because their personality traits have changed ... they reach it because the personality traits existed before they went on to kill one, then two and three people before being labelled a serial killer. IOW, we can all have psychopaths in our lives, none of whom ever go on to kill anyone. But of those psychopatic personalities who kill, they initiallly existed only as psychopatic personalities until such time as they progressed to killing one and more people.

AG was a pretty savvy babe ... educated, intelligent, sophisticated (not necessarily in the sense of style/fashion, but comfortable in her own skin). I would hazard a guess that her associates would project as reasonably sophisticated and intelligent people, or at the very least, decent people albeit maybe not as educated. Was there someone in AG's life who exhibits the underlying psychopathic traits?

I know what I mean but probably sound like i'm rambling. Am i making any sense here?

Coincidentally, I was just reading a recent Reader's Digest article on psychopaths, as a pre root canal exercise

I think it said psychopaths can very much be the type you'd love to have a conversation with. They can be great entertainers and a very quick study of people's behavior. But they tend to give themselves away at various points, via displays of ruthlessness etc.

I'm sure AG, with her intelligence and love of dogs would have picked up on someone's psychopathic behavior. Maybe she saw that in someone, circa 2007 and got scared.

As an aside: The article mentioned one shrink who was involved with studying psychopaths. He took the psycho test, and was shocked to find that he himself was right on the line of being a psychopath. On telling that to friends and family he was further surprised that they always felt there was something wrong with him.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Just responding to a number of queries/comments posted by you guys above:

1. As a high school teacher, AG might have prefered the name Gleave because it doesn't sound foreign. We must remember - teachers get bullied, too. God forbid *anyone* in a high school setting should be 'different' than all the rest.

2. Were all of the people in AG's coffee group males? This still strikes me as a tad off. (I have a group of friends who meet often and it's a mixture of men, women, married, divorced, widowed, etc.).

3. Next week is Nov. 24th - the National Day To End Violence Against Women. I'm wondering if the killer/attacker was set off by that day last year when SL and then AG were assaulted/killed?

:dunno:

----------

ETA: Oh, I almost forgot to post something. I'm a FIRM believer in "what we think, we become". For example, if I drive to the bank and during my trip there I keep saying to myself - I just KNOW I'll be robbed when I exit the bank. Merely by putting that thought/vibration out there into the Universe, I'm creating it as a reality. This goes back to the drunk falling off the stool and dying. Perhaps it also 'helped' create AG's worst fears becoming reality?

Did that make sense to anyone? Or, am I completely :nuts:?

re: the coffee group: it's hard to say. The media has led us to believe that, at least in that one video. It could be that AG, having not been the typical woman in her early years (ie: not many woman went into nuclear physics way back), learned to identify with men more...and stayed that way.

re: the cosmos: That's how I occasionally answer those final jeopardy questions before they even show it But true, I think many people have had experiences where they know something, or create a situation, in advance of it happening. That may be related to the signals they give off after "knowing they'll get robbed today"...and then if the other elements of the storm are present, it becomes a perfect one.

 

[Woodland]

Received a copy of AG's probated will today from a respected lawyer in Toronto.

Will post a short background on obtaining the will so that questions regarding how/why/when I obtained it will not interfere with I suspect will be many questions regarding the contents of the will.

On Friday, 4 November 2011, I made my first inquiry to a lawyer - is a probated will in the public domain and could one obtain a copy if one felt like obtaining it?

On 5 November (some people never stop working) the answer was yes one can have a copy of a probated will as it is public domain via a court process.

On 6 November I was given a name and on 7 November made a formal request for the probated will of AG, born 1937 of the Town of Ancaster.

It was originally hoped it would form part of the sale of 3401 Indian Trail, Ancaster but since it did not, my Toronto lawyer had to arrange for a copy to be picked up at the Hamilton court where it resided. I chose this route to ensure no conflict later.

So now I have a copy - but the lawyer that obtained it some concerned on the authenticity of it. He pointed out the problems with it, has more to say but wants me/us to digest it so far and ask the questions that he feels should be asked. He is waiting to answer any and all questions.

 

[Sillybilly]

ETA: Oh, I almost forgot to post something. I'm a FIRM believer in "what we think, we become". For example, if I drive to the bank and during my trip there I keep saying to myself - I just KNOW I'll be robbed when I exit the bank. Merely by putting that thought/vibration out there into the Universe, I'm creating it as a reality. This goes back to the drunk falling off the stool and dying. Perhaps it also 'helped' create AG's worst fears becoming reality?

<rsbm>

But has your fear ever resulted in the reality of being robbed as you left the bank? If not, then you did not create the reality. Your fear therefore was limited ONLY to state of mind, not a circumstance.

In AG's case, her murder and rape (or whatever variation) were both a state of mind that ultimately DID become her circumstance.

 

[Woodland]

The last will and testament of Audrey Gleave, born 1937/died 30 December 2010 and last resided at 3401 Indian Trail, Ancaster is dated 23 February 2007.

It is printed on blank paper - no letterhead of a lawyer's office. I did ask via a phone call to my lawyer if this would be considered normal practice. The actual question was not answered as a yes or no, rather with the witnesses of the probated will. The witnesses are Margaret Ford, Registered Nurse of 27 Pippin Drive, Brantford and Rhea C. Vankeuren, Retired and at the same address. My lawyer stated that when employees of his office witness the signature of a will, they put down the address of the lawyers office which 27 Pippin Drive does not seem to be.

My lawyer also pointed out that the signature of Margaret Ford and Audrey Gleave are very similar in nature. I agree.

My lawyer found clause 4.6 of this will to be at odds with clause 4.4 and urged me to read them together, and said they must be read together.

Clause 4.4 reads - I direct my Trustee to distribute the residue to Lynne Allyson Vanstone.

This follows payments of bills, taxes etc.

Clause 4.6 reads - I direct my Trustee to hold a gift of residue to any child of mine under the age of 18 years and keep the gift invested upon the trust of each child is to receive the capital of the gift, together with any income earned to the date of payment, less encroachments, when each child reaches 18.

My lawyer said this is peculiar in a will as it means the gift to LV can't be an absolute gift. The minor kids would come first. I pointed out that AG is not 'known' to have kids but it has been speculated that she might have had one or more children at some point in her life.

If my lawyer was acting for anyone regarding this will he would question the mental competence of AG at the time of writing the will.

A legal eagle awaits the questions.

 

[Woodland]

Received a copy of AG's probated will today from a respected lawyer in Toronto.

Will post a short background on obtaining the will so that questions regarding how/why/when I obtained it will not interfere with I suspect will be many questions regarding the contents of the will.

On Friday, 4 November 2011, I made my first inquiry to a lawyer - is a probated will in the public domain and could one obtain a copy if one felt like obtaining it?

On 5 November (some people never stop working) the answer was yes one can have a copy of a probated will as it is public domain via a court process.

On 6 November I was given a name and on 7 November made a formal request for the probated will of AG, born 1937 of the Town of Ancaster.

It was originally hoped it would form part of the sale of 3401 Indian Trail, Ancaster but since it did not, my Toronto lawyer had to arrange for a copy to be picked up at the Hamilton court where it resided. I chose this route to ensure no conflict later.

So now I have a copy - but the lawyer that obtained it some concerned on the authenticity of it. He pointed out the problems with it, has more to say but wants me/us to digest it so far and ask the questions that he feels should be asked. He is waiting to answer any and all questions.

 

[Woodland]

A further comment from my lawyer was, anyone showing up a courthouse with a last will and testament of a deceased person is rarely scrutinized - meaning if you have a will purportedly singed by the deceased it will be rubber stamped and processed.

He is not big on police investigations either - now that this case has had a change in lead detective, he has to ask how closely either detective reviewed the will. He's not impressed on the arrest and release of the vulnerable DS.

I find this lawyer cares enough to raise the profile of many lawyers - it's a shame about the bad apples that came before him.