CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[LilyMacBloom]

Thanks for the link, I found that enjoyable to read and I took to heart some of the very good tips about keeping safe in public!

I too took much of that article to heart. I couldn't help but think of Miriam's last footage looking lost, map in hand, as per my link, another perfect victim. The other thing I found so interesting was that serial killing has been so much on the rise from the link NSU posted and that authors wisdom in how we as a society could turn this violence around.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

Welcome and great point!

We've heard from PK that he believes hers was the only mailbox targeted (at least the last time it happened) . You'd think kids out for a vandalism run would take out a few.

It makes me think more that a neighbor was responsible, for that and the murder.

Hmmm, I live in a rural area much like AG and my mail box is side by side my neighbour. Honestly, over the many years we both have lived here, we have each had our mailboxes destroyed, never at the same time and I don't think either of us are targets. Many of my neighbours have over the years had to repair their mailboxes as well. If the kids don't get the mail boxes the snow plow will! Or my best GF will back into it! My two cents on mailboxes.

 

[roseofsharon]

I'm getting caught up on the forum -- thank you to everyone for all the great posts!!

 

[nicgumshoe]

Hmmm, I live in a rural area much like AG and my mail box is side by side my neighbour. Honestly, over the many years we both have lived here, we have each had our mailboxes destroyed, never at the same time and I don't think either of us are targets. Many of my neighbours have over the years had to repair their mailboxes as well. If the kids don't get the mail boxes the snow plow will! Or my best GF will back into it! My two cents on mailboxes.

Quite true. There could be any number of explanations. (Although taking out 2 side by side with a bat from a moving car might be a challenge)

If it's like around here, you'll soon get one of those big local group mailbox thingys...so that pranksters, drunks and ploughs can take all boxes out at once

 

[LilyMacBloom]

I've been thinking all day about AG. In particular all I've been reading about victims, how they are targeted and the different profilers opinions.
=think young...think close within 10 km
...therefore I put forth this....
an employee...OR someone else who is involved/connected with the VET ...stay with me...AG went to the vet for meds for the dogs...clearly she had an ongoing connection.

...AG could have expected this person, felt comfortable enough to meet him/ but not comfortable enough to let the dogs loose.

..please consider all employees, family members and fellow patients of said Vet.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I've been thinking all day about AG. In particular all I've been reading about victims, how they are targeted and the different profilers opinions.
=think young...think close within 10 km
...therefore I put forth this....
an employee...OR someone else who is involved/connected with the VET ...stay with me...AG went to the vet for meds for the dogs...clearly she had an ongoing connection.

...AG could have expected this person, felt comfortable enough to meet him/ but not comfortable enough to let the dogs loose.

..please consider all employees, family members and fellow patients of said Vet.

Great thought! Someone could have overheard/seen some personal info about AG (about living alone, etc) and figured she was a perfect target.

As an aside, supposedly he's a very popular and good vet. We live around 40 km from there, but 2 of my neighbors go to him. (Assuming that's the same vet. But how many vets are in Lynden?)

 

[Snoopster]

I've been thinking all day about AG. In particular all I've been reading about victims, how they are targeted and the different profilers opinions.
=think young...think close within 10 km
...therefore I put forth this....
an employee...OR someone else who is involved/connected with the VET ...stay with me...AG went to the vet for meds for the dogs...clearly she had an ongoing connection.

...AG could have expected this person, felt comfortable enough to meet him/ but not comfortable enough to let the dogs loose.

..please consider all employees, family members and fellow patients of said Vet.

A valid thought, Lily. I've always wondered why Audrey would drag herself out of the house, when she was apparently so sick, just to get vitamins for her dogs. I could understand if it was critical medicine, but vitamins?

 

[nicgumshoe]

A valid thought, Lily. I've always wondered why Audrey would drag herself out of the house, when she was apparently so sick, just to get vitamins for her dogs. I could understand if it was critical medicine, but vitamins?

I think she said in that last email to PK that she had "cabin fever"...so maybe she just had to get out for a bit. We know she went to LV's on the 26th, so she couldn't have been that bad. (And I think she might have said she was feeling slightly better on the 27th...although with a mild secondary infection....not sure on that...gotta check the email)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

There are several discrepancies in this link:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/12/31/16718126.html

1. Here we have a "stranger killing" while the FBI says "look young and look close".

2. PK said he used the code to open the garage door while here it says LE don't know if the garage door was already open or not.

3, And once agin, I cannot understand how/why PK wasn't totally freaked out at the scene if the killing was as brutal as LE says it was.

I tend to believe LE! Also, IF it was a "stranger killing" how can we be certain that SV and SL are not victims of this same 'stranger'?

 

[libyana]

I think SV's murder was by a stranger. Was she not killed on a sunday night? She would be going to work the next day so maybe retiring early. The killer maybe not have known she was starting a new job the next day. Starting that job meant she would be missed IMMEDIATELY, he would not have known that as a stranger.

 

[nicgumshoe]

There are several discrepancies in this link:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/12/31/16718126.html

1. Here we have a "stranger killing" while the FBI says "look young and look close".

2. PK said he used the code to open the garage door while here it says LE don't know if the garage door was already open or not.

3, And once agin, I cannot understand how/why PK wasn't totally freaked out at the scene if the the killing was as brutal as LE says it was.

I tend to believe LE! Also, IF it was a "stranger killing" how can we be certain that SV and SL are not victims of this same 'stranger'?

My thoughts are:

1) The Sun article (originally posted Dec 31, 2010) came out before they figured it was someone she knew / someone young and close.

2) PK told about opening the garage after LE mentioned that, or the news of PK doing that trickled down to the media after LE's initial report to them.

3) Still a big mystery to me as well.

I guess we can't totally be sure it's not the same killer yet. Although, SV's killer moved the body from the scene and left evidence in 3 places (the house, the car, and where he left the body)

 

[nicgumshoe]

...btw, what would moving the body suggest about a killer? That he knew/didn't know the victim? Or just that he wanted the body in a special location that was part of a fantasy?

It seems like SV's killer really panicked after the murder....and took a lot of risks.

 

[colette]

My thoughts are:

1) The Sun article (originally posted Dec 31, 2010) came out before they figured it was someone she knew / someone young and close.

They didn't figure out it was someone young and close, it was a profiler's guess.

 

[nicgumshoe]

They didn't figure out it was someone young and close, it was a profiler's guess.

My apologies for the lack of clarity; I was using "figure" as in the sense of "think", and not "figured out".

True...but it seems LE have adopted that to an extent, and figure (ie: think) it was probably someone she knew.

I believe that came up in the latest Spec article that mentioned the dogs; about how they originally told neighbors to be vigilant (b4 they thought it was someone known to her).

"One thing detectives have said is that the homicide was not, as police originally speculated, a random attack. That had been the reason police initially urged Audrey’s neighbours to be “vigilant.”"

from: http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/617241--if-audrey-gleave-s-dogs-could-speak

 

[amron]

Welcome Amron. Could you please explain a little more what you mean about Ms Gleaves car in connection to her mailbox. I need things spelled out LOL, sorry about that. TIA.

I don't recall if the damage to the mailbox was intentional, if so, possibility AG could have caused damage to personal property with her car and this was retaliation( it happened in my neighbourhood, a mailbox was beat with a baseball bat). Perhaps completely unrelated to the murder.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

They didn't figure out it was someone young and close, it was a profiler's guess.

But....but..... aren't professional profilers "professional"? I doubt it was a "guess". Like your doctor is a professional - your doctor doesn't say 'Ah who knows, you might have a terminal illness or you might just have sprained your ankle. Who cares, we'll find out if you're still alive in three months!'

It might be just me, but I take the FBI's word pretty seriously!:waitasec:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I don't recall if the damage to the mailbox was intentional, if so, possibility AG could have caused damage to personal property with her car and this was retaliation( it happened in my neighbourhood, a mailbox was beat with a baseball bat). Perhaps completely unrelated to the murder.

I'm confused (it happens easily!). Do you mean AG was murdered because she accidentally did something with her car? Or, do you mean the maibox thing was retaliation for something AG did with her car?

Thanks.

 

[amron]

I'm confused (it happens easily!). Do you mean AG was murdered because she accidentally did something with her car? Or, do you mean the maibox thing was retaliation for something AG did with her car?

Thanks.

I have read AG liked to "bomb around, perhaps speeding a little" and a mishap of sorts could have occurred. More likely not related to the murder,just the mailbox damage, however, the case that comes to mind is the murder of Daniel Horowitz's wife where a jury found Dyleski, then 17, guilty of murdering Pamela Vitale on Oct. 15, 2005. Prosecutors said he did it, in part, because Dyleski was under the mistaken belief that Vitale ran over his dog.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

OK, just so we don't end up blaming the victim - I also like to bomb around in my car and I do speed a little. But I don't deserve to be murdered for that.

And I highly doubt that AG would harm any animal in any manner.

I'll have to look up that Daniel Horowitz (sp??) case because I'm not familiar with it.

ETA: Here's the link to that murder mentioned in a post above:

LINK - http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/pam_vitale.htm

 

[libyana]

we should always keep in mind that this was a viscious rape of some kind and I doubt if it was random. I am sure AG was being watched around her property as was SV and SL.