CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[LilyMacBloom]

This is not my brilliant idea. I’m speculating based on a question I was asked. If said asker of question would like to raise her hand we would all congratulate her sleuthing!
I’m going back to two points which would maybe answer some pertinent questions.
Suzie said on Dec 23 LV had invited a group to her house. Suzie knew or was pretty sure that due to the invite of one person that AG would be a no-show. Which she was, Suzie saying AG feined illness.
Suzie also recounted a time when AGs 6:30am golf buddy invited someone else to play with them and AG only played 9holes and never played with this long time golf buddy again. My assumption was that these golf buddies were female.(my bad) However, if you insert that they were male it changes the whole perspective. What if the said goolf buddy had been romanticly involved with AG and when she refused to golf with him he was thus scorned by her? What if said golf buddy was the person invited to LVs? AG was again a no show thus she scorned him again.
AG was at LV’s X-mas (I think). Maybe there was a conversation around LV inviting someone she knew AG would not want to be around and some hard feelings insued. Maybe AG was sick maybe she wasn’t or she was exaggerating her illness so as to have an excuse.
What if LV took the soup to AG as an “I’m sorry?” I had no idea you still harboured (insert the feelings) or I wouldn’t have invited him. AG says, thanks for the soup, I’ll get back to you one day, therefore LV would have had a very quick visit.
What if said scorned golfer then went to visit AG to try and patch all this stuff up? Therefore, she recognized who was coming up the drive. What if said conversation all went wrong?
Do I have the gist right??
:truce:

 

[nicgumshoe]

This is not my brilliant idea. I’m speculating based on a question I was asked. If said asker of question would like to raise her hand we would all congratulate her sleuthing!
I’m going back to two points which would maybe answer some pertinent questions.
Suzie said on Dec 23 LV had invited a group to her house. Suzie knew or was pretty sure that due to the invite of one person that AG would be a no-show. Which she was, Suzie saying AG feined illness.
Suzie also recounted a time when AGs 6:30am golf buddy invited someone else to play with them and AG only played 9holes and never played with this long time golf buddy again. My assumption was that these golf buddies were female.(my bad) However, if you insert that they were male it changes the whole perspective. What if the said goolf buddy had been romanticly involved with AG and when she refused to golf with him he was thus scorned by her? What if said golf buddy was the person invited to LVs? AG was again a no show thus she scorned him again.
AG was at LV’s X-mas (I think). Maybe there was a conversation around LV inviting someone she knew AG would not want to be around and some hard feelings insued. Maybe AG was sick maybe she wasn’t or she was exaggerating her illness so as to have an excuse.
What if LV took the soup to AG as an “I’m sorry?” I had no idea you still harboured (insert the feelings) or I wouldn’t have invited him. AG says, thanks for the soup, I’ll get back to you one day, therefore LV would have had a very quick visit.
What if said scorned golfer then went to visit AG to try and patch all this stuff up? Therefore, she recognized who was coming up the drive. What if said conversation all went wrong?
Do I have the gist right??
:truce:

AG was at LV's on boxing day.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2913418

Sure, something like that could have happened. A visit to clear the slate, romantic or otherwise.

What this may show more (ie: the golf story) is that AG didn't like unexpected company...and that could have been the cause of an argument.

 

[dotr]

Wow, thanks! I can see that scenario and picture a slowburning anger/passion and humilation , especially with AG's" young man" sitting there on the couch. Did the cat leave a nasty surprise for PK to find? Did he invade AG's home and force her to spend time with him talking as some scorned (and scary) suitors have been known to do, did he make her "repent" for her "sin" of rejecting him and force her to send the song A.Grace, perhaps they had in happier times attended the composer's concert or was Audrey sending an sos ??????

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

:waitasec: Please forgive my fatigue and, hence, my inability to comprehend (moving into a new house is very tiring!!)

QUESTIONS:
1. From Lily - who's 'Susie'?

2. From dotr - what cat?

:tyou:

 

[Hazel]

This is not my brilliant idea. I’m speculating based on a question I was asked. If said asker of question would like to raise her hand we would all congratulate her sleuthing!
I’m going back to two points which would maybe answer some pertinent questions.
Suzie said on Dec 23 LV had invited a group to her house. Suzie knew or was pretty sure that due to the invite of one person that AG would be a no-show. Which she was, Suzie saying AG feined illness.
Suzie also recounted a time when AGs 6:30am golf buddy invited someone else to play with them and AG only played 9holes and never played with this long time golf buddy again. My assumption was that these golf buddies were female.(my bad) However, if you insert that they were male it changes the whole perspective. What if the said goolf buddy had been romanticly involved with AG and when she refused to golf with him he was thus scorned by her? What if said golf buddy was the person invited to LVs?

:tyou::goodpost: Lily!
Just to be certain, would the 'someone else' that was invited by the golf buddy be male as well?
and
Would the golf buddy be married at the time? Would he be bringing his wife to LV's X-mas party?

Well, with 3 marriages and now this, I think we can be sure what AG's preference was in the :heartbeat: department.

You see, I had wondered a few times if perhaps she gave some wrong ~~vibes~~ to a female who, hypothetically speaking, might have different preferences, who might have been platonically in :heartbeat: with her. (all just theories, no facts)

Answer to Stone: "Suzie" is a made-up name for Lily's friend - no idea what cat is dotr talking about...maybe that's how she refers to someone who got in her house without making any noise, like cats do?

 

[nicgumshoe]

Wow, thanks! I can see that scenario and picture a slowburning anger/passion and humilation , especially with AG's" young man" sitting there on the couch. Did the cat leave a nasty surprise for PK to find? Did he invade AG's home and force her to spend time with him talking as some scorned (and scary) suitors have been known to do, did he make her "repent" for her "sin" of rejecting him and force her to send the song A.Grace, perhaps they had in happier times attended the composer's concert or was Audrey sending an sos ??????

I keep thinking that might have been some kind of SOS too. But she sent an email with that (Amazing Grace) in the morning, then LV came over, and then she supposedly went to the vet. Maybe she was being held hostage in some way, yet still able to do those things.

Or maybe just the final email was an SOS.

*** Maybe suggested ex-romantic partner was the reason AG feared she'd be raped and murdered one day! (maybe she knew a side of him/her that others didn't see, and AG didn't mention to it anyone)

 

[libyana]

looking back, I believe Ag could have been held captive for quite a while;
Stabbed multiple times,other injuries LE would not specify, and sexually assaulted.
Did the perp snoop around her house in the dark early winter to see her habits?
did he take the opportunity to break into a door or window while she took the dogs to the vet and then ambush as soon as she crated them for the night. It sounds to me like she was tortured for a period of time and not in the garage.

 

[libyana]

As for having her coat on maybe the perp made a distraction outside and broke in while she investigated, and maybe he was trying to drag her to the car to get her body out of the way when he was interupted, howling dogs everywhere-neighbours lights.
I wish we could talk to the neighbours.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I also have a feeling that AG had been with her killer for a long time. How do we know she went to the vet alone, only with the dogs? Maybe AG tried (unsuccessfully) to give a hint/clue to the vet?

There has to be a reason LE took the car. Perhaps the killer had been in the car and left DNA.

 

[libyana]

I am going to go back and study the the timelines, I think I have been stuck in the garage for a while and there is something else here.

 

[dotr]

:waitasec: Please forgive my fatigue and, hence, my inability to comprehend (moving into a new house is very tiring!!)

QUESTIONS:
1. From Lily - who's 'Susie'?

2. From dotr - what cat?

:tyou:

Cat as in predator stalking , pussyfooting around, cat burgler, playing with victim, perhaps teasing the dog and ultimately leaving a clawed ,deceased trophy as as sort of gift or nasty present....

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thanks, dotr. Between the dogs and the cake - I confuse quickly!!:blushing:

 

[Hazel]

To nic - yes, it's only for newly built homes!!

OK, for some unknown reason I went back to read Lee Mellor's blog:

http://mellortalksmurder.blogspot.com/?zx=aa9656b0f24ed661

This part jumped out at me:

Residence: Thankfully, here I can be much more specific. I can confidently state that the UNSUB will either live within a 10 KM radius of the Gleave residence (probably close to the centre), OR will have had a reason to visit the area on multiple occasions. The most plausible explanation is to see family. Visiting friends or work obligations are less likely possibilities. We must always keep in mind that Audrey Gleave was murderered over the holiday season.

(respectfully coloured and underlined by me)

Not sure if I'm following LM's train of thought here.....it seems to me he is saying the UNSUB is still working, so young and close, and not an old retired person.
Otherwise, what difference would it make if it was the holiday season or not?
If it was an old, retired person, my guess is any day of the year would have been the same as the holiday season.
:waitasec: not sure if I explained it clear enough

:welcome4: 2soccermom :wagon:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Hazel - the way I read LM's words above is that he's suggesting it wasn't a kid home from University visiting family at Xmas - rather, it's a 'young and close' person who constantly remains in AG's area.

Did that make sense?

ETA: I think LM also means that it could be a person who constantly goes to AG's area (postal worker, paper boy, gardeners, snow removal, etc.) Not someone who is away for the entire year but only comes to visit during a holiday season.

I also think that LM is suggesting that because it was the Xmas season, many locals would be away/busy and wouldn't have the opportunity to kill.

 

[Hazel]

Hazel - the way I read LM's words above is that he's suggesting it wasn't a kid home from University visiting family at Xmas - rather, it's a 'young and close' person who constantly remains in AG's area.

Did that make sense?

ETA: I think LM also means that it could be a person who constantly goes to AG's area (postal worker, paper boy, gardeners, snow removal, etc.) Not someone who is away for the entire year but only comes to visit during a holiday season.

I also think that LM is suggesting that because it was the Xmas season, many locals would be away/busy and wouldn't have the opportunity to kill.

Thanks Stone, I guess you are right - and yes makes lots of sense, since many locals would be out of town around that time of year --my interpretation was that it was someone who normally wouldn't have the opportunity to be around the area (school/work), but being the Holiday season, he/she was in the area visiting 'family'.

 

[nicgumshoe]

I don't think LM is necessarily suggesting that locals would be away over the holidays. I think he's just saying we should keep the holiday season mind when weighing AG's murder....but he doesn't elaborate.

The holiday season is different:

- visitors in the area
- people drink more
- theft rate is often high
-people reflect on their lives (maybe x-students blame teachers that failed them...especially if they can't afford gifts and get depressed....someone mentioned that somewhere)

Probably other things as well.

 

[libyana]

people are distracted at Christmastime whether they partake or not. Everybody lets their guard down, it's also a very lonely time for some people.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Indeed, libyana it is a very sad, lonely time for many. I remember two Midnight Masses I attended years apart. One when I was very young a guy (arsonist) set fire to our church and burned it to the ground.

Then, after I was married we decided to try Midnight Mass again and there was a stabbing in the church!

Perhaps this helps explain one of the many reasons I left Catholicism and converted to Buddhism!!

------------

ETA: Are you guys noticing how dark it gets now and how early the darkness sets in?

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder if someone had been lurking outside the garage waiting for an opportunity to get inside the house once AG and the dogs left by car.Maybe he slipped in to get a peek at some of AG's papers in her purse or to snoop out details of her will (choosing this particular time after noticing that AG was sick...sending funereal type song..)and not liking what he saw, flew into a rage ...

<bbm>

as in "WHAT, NO CAMARO ?? !!!!"

Guess we don't know if the Camaro has been released, and if so, to whom.

 

[Woodland]

Going back to someone waiting in the house for AG to return with her dogs and for her to crate them - have never met a german shepherd that would allow that to happen.

I do like the idea though that someone could have been in her house for some time after the dogs were crated and sending Amazing Grace as an SOS - it has been said that truth is stranger than fiction.