CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Maybe it was one of those do-it-yourself wills? Did anyone see the "Corner Gas" episode making fun of the advert for those wills?:lol:

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ETA: LOOK - I found an online will!! AG loved her computers!!

LINK - http://legalwills.ca/

 

[LilyMacBloom]

rsbm

<rsbm>


ETA: Are we all thinking with what we know about this grande lady that this seems so "NOT Audrey"??? Where is the lady who cared so deeply about her dogs, her much visited pet cemetary, pet related organizations?

I agree, AG purchased plots for her 2 sheps, wanted her ashes to go there, was from all appearances good friends with the Vet, I'm surprised she did not set some stipulation for the pet cemetary.

Also, as an aside, if AG wanted her ashes scattered at the pet cemetary and that was illegal (as per note above) and LV scattered her ashes at BG&CC, as per a news article (that I can't look up because I forget which one) umm how's THAT legal?

 

[Woodland]

AG was said to have carried 'important papers' in her purse at all times. Unusual imo, and I do not know if this is true or not. What stopped someone from slipping a copy of the Will dated 23 Feb 2007 into her purse at the time she was murdered knowing that the dogs were crated or out of the way?

Gruesome, overkill, sexual component etc would be a brilliant way to cover the simple motive of money, imo. Killers have to be smarter these days, what with DNA tools and forums like this throwing out all kinds of ideas.

 

[nicgumshoe]

AG was said to have carried 'important papers' in her purse at all times. Unusual imo, and I do not know if this is true or not. What stopped someone from slipping a copy of the Will dated 23 Feb 2007 into her purse at the time she was murdered knowing that the dogs were crated or out of the way?

Gruesome, overkill, sexual component etc would be a brilliant way to cover the simple motive of money, imo. Killers have to be smarter these days, what with DNA tools and forums like this throwing out all kinds of ideas.

If that's the case, then I think there'd have to be a conspiracy. I just can't see a woman doing the murder part....not that kind of murder. No doubt, it would be a brilliant way to cover things up, but the weakness would be in maintaining the secrecy of such a conspiracy.

I'm still more inclined to believe that any Will fraud would have been an after the fact kind of thing.

 

[Woodland]

I could be convinced of a conspiracy - very easily at this point.

 

[dotr]

Just to throw a wrench in all of this, I was thinking about AG and the "old country" Lithuania? or other E.European country from which AG's parents originated.Did AG ever seek out "penpals" or family connections, did they seek out AG?

 

[dotr]

I like Hamilton, but some do not.This is not a flattering article, but it may hold some truths that may have come into play in this case.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/653979

"Body parts, too, still remain to be uncovered, Hamilton rich in Mafiosi lore as Hit-Town Canada, from the emergence of the Black Hand a century ago to a local judge, presiding over an extortion trial in 1981, who for the first time recognized mob membership as a factor in determining an appropriate sentence for gangsters. Stomping ground &#8211; and I mean that literally &#8211; for the likes of Johnny Papalia, Giacomo Luppino and "boss of all bosses" Rocco Perri."



"Hamilton is a contemporaneous ruin. But still attractive to immigrants, apparently &#8211; some 3,000 Roma (note to Hamiltonians: that's gypsies, not people from Rome) settling in the region over the last couple of years, after arriving at Pearson airport and seeking asylum. Clearly, Hamilton is heaven compared to a ramshackle gypsy village in the Czech Republic".

 

[nicgumshoe]

I like Hamilton, but some do not.This is not a flattering article, but it may hold some truths that may have come into play in this case.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/653979

"Body parts, too, still remain to be uncovered, Hamilton rich in Mafiosi lore as Hit-Town Canada, from the emergence of the Black Hand a century ago to a local judge, presiding over an extortion trial in 1981, who for the first time recognized mob membership as a factor in determining an appropriate sentence for gangsters. Stomping ground &#8211; and I mean that literally &#8211; for the likes of Johnny Papalia, Giacomo Luppino and "boss of all bosses" Rocco Perri."



"Hamilton is a contemporaneous ruin. But still attractive to immigrants, apparently &#8211; some 3,000 Roma (note to Hamiltonians: that's gypsies, not people from Rome) settling in the region over the last couple of years, after arriving at Pearson airport and seeking asylum. Clearly, Hamilton is heaven compared to a ramshackle gypsy village in the Czech Republic".

Well, I suppose it's not as nice as it was. The downtown core used to be somewhat charming, if a little grimy. But now I find it just grimy with weirdos everywhere. Something like a small East Vancouver.

I guess where there are plenty of people with vices, you'll find plenty of gangs setting up shop and doing a great business.

Other parts of the Hammer are ok though. Like the country communities it annexed to suck the tax $ out of and give nothing in return (Oh, and Westdale around Mac has mostly retained it's charm)

 

[LadyL]

Received a copy of AG's probated will today from a respected lawyer in Toronto.

Will post a short background on obtaining the will so that questions regarding how/why/when I obtained it will not interfere with I suspect will be many questions regarding the contents of the will.

On Friday, 4 November 2011, I made my first inquiry to a lawyer - is a probated will in the public domain and could one obtain a copy if one felt like obtaining it?

On 5 November (some people never stop working) the answer was yes one can have a copy of a probated will as it is public domain via a court process.

On 6 November I was given a name and on 7 November made a formal request for the probated will of AG, born 1937 of the Town of Ancaster.

It was originally hoped it would form part of the sale of 3401 Indian Trail, Ancaster but since it did not, my Toronto lawyer had to arrange for a copy to be picked up at the Hamilton court where it resided. I chose this route to ensure no conflict later.

So now I have a copy - but the lawyer that obtained it some concerned on the authenticity of it. He pointed out the problems with it, has more to say but wants me/us to digest it so far and ask the questions that he feels should be asked. He is waiting to answer any and all questions.

[bbm]

I know you'd hoped this info would help avoid more questions about how you obtained it but I still have a few, like the part I bolded. Can you explain that more? Does that mean you purchased Audrey's property? What conflict were you trying to avoid?

Also, have you scanned the will online & do you have a link to it or can you post images here so that we can see it? I'd especially like to see the two similar signatures you referenced.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I like Hamilton, but some do not.This is not a flattering article, but it may hold some truths that may have come into play in this case.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/653979

"Body parts, too, still remain to be uncovered, Hamilton rich in Mafiosi lore as Hit-Town Canada, from the emergence of the Black Hand a century ago to a local judge, presiding over an extortion trial in 1981, who for the first time recognized mob membership as a factor in determining an appropriate sentence for gangsters. Stomping ground – and I mean that literally – for the likes of Johnny Papalia, Giacomo Luppino and "boss of all bosses" Rocco Perri."



"Hamilton is a contemporaneous ruin. But still attractive to immigrants, apparently – some 3,000 Roma (note to Hamiltonians: that's gypsies, not people from Rome) settling in the region over the last couple of years, after arriving at Pearson airport and seeking asylum. Clearly, Hamilton is heaven compared to a ramshackle gypsy village in the Czech Republic".

Thanks for the link/article. I haven't been in Hamilton for many, many years. But we do drive past it (over the bridge) on our way to Niagara-On-The-Lake.The bridges have always freaked me out!! And I used to work with a guy who became a known mafia family person from Hamilton.:twocents:

 

[Woodland]

I did not buy AG's home - but would sure like to have as many acres as she had! I posted a couple of pages back that a professional couple bought it.

Since I wanted to obtain public docs, I went to someone not living or working in the Hamilton area - no friend of a friend so to speak.

I sent a copy of the Will to a posters personal e-mail address - for the life of me I could not figure out how to attach what I received by e-mail to this forum. I wasn't sure if it was a great idea or not to post it - but now I do as last night I re-read part one of the Spec story where they clearly obtained a copy of it and quote the date, LV etc.

Open to some step by step instructions by pm - I can't find a way to get to Explorer from the pm page.

 

[shadowraiths]

It makes it even odder to me that PK was left out.

Not really, imho. Per Woodland, the will was dated 23 Feb 2007 ( link ) At that point, PK had been working for her for a little under a year. That is, he reportedly began working for her when he was 18, which would be sometime in 2006.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I also am not surprised PK was left out of the will. He was a young kid (still is, really) who was AG's handyman. No need for him to even think of being in her will, at least, that's how I see things.

 

[puppyraiser]

Do we know if there was one specific handyman prior to PK being hired around 2006?

The timing of the will is interesting. Back in the early 2000's, I recall there was a big push for people to appoint a Power of Attorney to make medical (and even financial) decisions in the event of illness or accident. Wills were typically revised/made at the same time and witnessed by a lawyer to complete the process. I wonder if Audrey had appointed a Power of Attorney or had a will drafted prior to the one from 2007.

 

[Woodland]

It is curious that LV did not have power of attorney assigned for health or financial decisions. I would have thought savvy AG was likely to have done a better job regarding a Will than what was presented.

An autopsy would have shown whether or not AG ever gave birth - and it seems very few people would have known this beforehand.

Wonder why the private AG so private?

 

[nicgumshoe]

It is curious that LV did not have power of attorney assigned for health or financial decisions. I would have thought savvy AG was likely to have done a better job regarding a Will than what was presented.

An autopsy would have shown whether or not AG ever gave birth - and it seems very few people would have known this beforehand.

Wonder why the private AG so private?

I dunno...I bet a lot of elderly people haven't appointed a POA. It can also be a very dangerous thing to do, imo (and in the opinion of a lawyer who once told me such) . ie: you appoint a POA, they somehow prove you're nuts (a little "gaslighting" might help them) or can't manage yourself and away they go.

If AG was planning to leave everything to LV how savvy would she have to be in a Will? Short and simple seems like the best route to go to me.

Can you imagine if there'd been more? We might be scrutinizing it for eons, wondering why she did this or that. Just that one clause about possible minors (which really doesn't seem that odd to me, especially if it was will kit) has caused a lot of concern.

Maybe I'm imagining this, but I thought I saw somewhere that she once advised a student to "keep it simple".

 

[Sillybilly]

I dunno...I bet a lot of elderly people haven't appointed a POA. It can also be a very dangerous thing to do, imo (and in the opinion of a lawyer who once told me such) . ie: you appoint a POA, they somehow prove you're nuts (a little "gaslighting" might help them) or can't manage yourself and away they go.

If AG was planning to leave everything to LV how savvy would she have to be in a Will? Short and simple seems like the best route to go to me.

Can you imagine if there'd been more? We might be scrutinizing it for eons, wondering why she did this or that. Just that one clause about possible minors (which really doesn't seem that odd to me, especially if it was will kit) has caused a lot of concern.

Maybe I'm imagining this, but I thought I saw somewhere that she once advised a student to "keep it simple".

<bbm>

If it was "simple", those with far more experience than us would have solved this case by now.

 

[Woodland]

I agree - 'if' AG was planning to leave everything to LV that it would have been kept simple.

So why not give LV POA in the event of illness, accident etc to ensure things were looked after while AG could not?

 

[Sillybilly]

It is curious that LV did not have power of attorney assigned for health or financial decisions. I would have thought savvy AG was likely to have done a better job regarding a Will than what was presented.

An autopsy would have shown whether or not AG ever gave birth - and it seems very few people would have known this beforehand.

Wonder why the private AG so private?

AG may have given POA to someone, but we don't know that one way or another.

People can be highly educated and intelligent in many areas, but still have disorganization or lack of planning in their personal affairs.

I worked in a firm where our very esteemed senior partner came in one day, all smiles that he had hired a new receptionist. Said "she's a school teacher and such a lovely lady". Well, that was all very true ... but she didn't know beans about how to answer a telephone.

 

[nicgumshoe]

<bbm>

If it was "simple", those with far more experience than us would have solved this case by now.

actually I was referring to the Will (and possible evidence for AG keeping it simple), and not the murder case. No doubt, the case is more complex.