CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[libyana]

east European people back then would have been maybe very religious and superstitious and probably coming here kept the old traditions, not a happy mix for a young girl growing up in the west. Especially a bright girl like Audrey. The men are very very macho and like women in their place. Audrey's mum might have been under the fathers thumb and Audrey would not have respected her for it.

 

[libyana]

I doubt if this has anything to do with anything ,but explains her character maybe.

 

[Hazel]

I doubt if this has anything to do with anything ,but explains her character maybe.

I too agree with what you just said libyana. Her background, childhood, upbringing explains the woman she became, but IMO has nothing to do with her being murdered at 73, except that not having any family might have made her more vulnerable in many ways. JMO

 

[nicgumshoe]

Likewise. I don't really think her childhood past really has anything to do with her murder. Especially given the nature of the crime, and the time elapsed since AG left her childhood world behind. (Though, her past may explain some things that pop up in the investigation: like a fear of being raped and murdered, if somehow her childhood/past created that fear.)

I'm still with young and close, and the motive is probably something only a psychotic maniac would understand.

 

[libyana]

yes I am back with the maniac again. The opportunity over that holiday when Audrey would be more alone and vunerable, I am more convinced that someone was watching closely and new all her habits for quite a while.

 

[LadyL]

The Camaro was bought later that year (2007), so was not included in her Will.

Not long before her murder, Audrey had been cleaning up her house, books, papers with PK's help.

Could Audrey had been thinking it was time to redo/update her Will to make provisions for PK? Seems to me, after five years she had grown to trust him a lot and maybe even felt she was his mentor? (just speculation on my part, no real facts)

[bbm]

maybe someone had recently discovered they were not being considered to be added to her will

young & close
young & close
young & close

that refrain just keeps repeating itself in my head

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I'm also sticking with young and close in AG's murder.

As time passes, we approach the one year mark of AG's murder and SL's attack. Such a dark time of the year........:xmastree:

------------

About adding PK to her will - it doesn't really fit for me. Wouldn't PK have been paid on a regular basis as he completed odd jobs around AG's house? I truly cannot see why PK would be in her will.

 

[libyana]

I get the feeling Audrey never really needed men in her life that much especially as she got older. She would maybe resent being a housewife and was very happy in her own skin occupying herself with more fulfilling pursuits. I get the feeling she did not like a lot of small talk either, but I would not call that reclusive. I think she was very knowledgable about the world around her and the fact that most violent crimes are against children and the elderly, especially women.

 

[Woodland]

Have set aside the actual Will and looked more closely at the process one goes through to file a Will and the results.

On 28 January 2011, LAV had her lawyer file document no. 74.4 (can be looked up on the net I'm sure). This document is titled 'Courts of Justice Act, Application for Certificate of Appointment of Estate Trustee With a Will'.
It was filed in the Superior Court of Justice in Hamilton.

It's a very simple form and asks only 2 questions regarding the net worth of a deceased person.
1. Personal Property
There is space to enter one number and for AG it shows $50,622.87.

2. Real Estate
There is space to enter one number and for AG it shows $425,000.00

There is a specific direction on this form to exclude insurance values, joint property and property held outside Ontario.

My question now is - does that mean bank accounts, investments or other assets do not have to be stated for a Will in the probate process?

Also, is the entire probate procedure? Filing a form with 2 questions?

 

[Woodland]

So how did LAV know on 28 January 2011 that AG's house would sell for exactly $425,000.00 2 months later? I don't find this a problem at all, but suspect LAV had a buyer and it was her job to sell the house. LAV could not legally list the house at this point, let alone sell it.

On 22 February 2011 a Certificate of Appointment was granted - form RCP-E 74.13. LAV now had charge of AG's estate.

LAV must also have had death certificates in her capacity of Estate Trustee - another valuable document to take care of business for a deceased person. They are not handed out lightly or easily, but are recognized at banks, investment firms, insurance companies, real estate companies etc. etc. etc.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I looked up Probate in Ontario Canada and this came up:

http://www.weaverfuneralhomes.com/-14510.html

 

[Woodland]

So, if I'm correct in my thinking, on 22 February 2011 LAV could approach any institution where AG had holdings/interests, do what needed to be done and it would not have been anyone's business but hers. Only the house had to be public knowledge, which is due to a whole different set of rules anyway.

One more question - what living person stated to the media that AG carried important papers around with her in her purse? Just because papers were found in AG's purse when LE arrived (if in fact that happened) doesn't say to me they were always there. Why throw that out to the public, but not her net worth?

Those dogs being conveniently crated for a killer - pretty lucky killer. I completely agree AG was vulnerable, in a few ways.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I would hazard a guess that AG's Camaro cost about $29,000.00 - $30,000.000CAD. She had the raised hood with the racing stripe, so that's not the basic model.

http://www.doughenrytarboro.com/newmodel.htm

----------------

ETA: Oooopsy - these (in the link) are USA prices. So, AG's Camaro purchaed in Canada would be quite a bit more. Now, I'd say from $32,000.00 - $36,000.00CAD +tax. Nice car indeed.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Woodland:

One more question - what living person stated to the media that AG carried important papers around with her in her purse? Just because papers were found in AG's purse when LE arrived (if in fact that happened) doesn't say to me they were always there. Why throw that out to the public, but not her net worth?


I'm not certain, but something tells me we only know that from the Jon Wells articles. Maybe LE told Jon Wells. Or PK??

--------------------

ETA: Also quoted from Woodland:

Those dogs being conveniently crated for a killer - pretty lucky killer. I completely agree AG was vulnerable, in a few ways.


But how do we know the dogs were crated? Where did we learn that? I remember that the dogs were taken by LE for blood and urine tests. And maybe for DNA!?!

Now, IF they were crated - that tells me that AG knew exactly who was coming over to "visit" and she willingly let them in! :cupcake:

 

[Sillybilly]

My question now is - does that mean bank accounts, investments or other assets do not have to be stated for a Will in the probate process?

Also, is the entire probate procedure? Filing a form with 2 questions?

<rsbm>

To my knowledge, the only thing that does not have to be included is insurance policies where the beneficiary is specified (and the money goes directly to the beneficiary rather than being lumped in with the Estate which would result in higher legal fees).

Not only 2 questions to answer, but the clerk couldn't even check to ensure that the date of the Will entered on the application didn't even match the date of the Will that was attached !!

 

[Sillybilly]

We do not know that the dogs were crated, only that they were confined.

I think we heard about the papers in the purse prior to the JW articles. IIRC, maybe it was PK who told us that. Will have to check back.

 

[Valleyboy]

I would hazard a guess that AG's Camaro cost about $29,000.00 - $30,000.000CAD. She had the raised hood with the racing stripe, so that's not the basic model.

http://www.doughenrytarboro.com/newmodel.htm

----------------

ETA: Oooopsy - these (in the link) are USA prices. So, AG's Camaro purchaed in Canada would be quite a bit more. Now, I'd say from $32,000.00 - $36,000.00CAD +tax. Nice car indeed.

I would think that AG would purchase one of the lower priced models because she wouldn't need a V8 with a stick shift ( too much power for an elderly person who had bad legs)

Here is the price list of the 5 models of 2010 camaros.
From just under $23,000.00 to about $34,000.00

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2010-chevrolet-camaro-2dr-cpe-1lt.htm


2010 Chevrolet Camaro TRIMS, 5 AVAILABLE
Select a trim below to see reviews, prices, specs and more:

Select up to 4 to compare

MSRP Engine
2010 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe LS

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features $22,680 3.6L/220
2010 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe 1LT

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features $23,880 3.6L/220
2010 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe 1SS

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features $30,945 6.2L/378
2010 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe 2LT

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features $26,875 3.6L/220
2010 Chevrolet Camaro Coupe 2SS

Overview | Prices | Photos | Features $33,945 6.2L/378

 

[Woodland]

By crated I meant the dogs were out of the way and unable to reach whoever attacked their master. Crated, in the basement, behind a closed door etc.

It was convenient for the killer wherever the dogs were at that moment. Having trouble with a stranger who happened to be a maniac having that much luck on that particular day at that particular moment in time, and being able to lure AG to the garage, supposedly with shoes and a coat on. I'm just saying that personally I don't get that much luck therefore, have to question the circumstances.

The value of the 2010 Camaro would be substantially different from it's purchase price on 30 December 2010 and 28 January 2011. I don't see that it makes a difference to her stated personal property value (whatever that legally means) on 28 January 2011. The question is - what made up a mere $50,622.87 in personal property?

AG had a 30-year mortgage on her house that ended/was paid off in 2008 (likely a result of the divorce from Alan Gleave giving him his share of the house) Specific details have been deleted from the public eye however the instrument number(s) are there and should that be important they can be found. Since she no longer had that payment, it seems reasonable that she treated herself to a nice vehicle. So what was the value of her bank account(s) where she paid her mortgage from, purchased the vehicle, new oven, gardening supplies, A/C for the house, riding lawn mower and other items I have read she enjoyed? The answer seems to be - myob. Hopefully LE has made it their business.

 

[Hazel]

Quoted from Woodland:

Now, IF they were crated - that tells me that AG knew exactly who was coming over to "visit" and she willingly let them in! :cupcake:

That's what I have been thinking all along -- no way I can believe Audrey would put on her coat, snickers, open the garage door, sit on a cold bench to look out into the darkness on a cold winter maybe even windy evening, so she can have a smoke, when she could just smoke indoors.

She had no children and smokers don't mind the smell of smoke, mind you, smokers don't even smell the smoke!
I can easily picture Audrey sitting at her computer, right hand on mouse, holding a cigarette on her left hand.

Also keep in mind December 23 is the shortest day of the year, meaning it gets darker earlier. Don't know if her garage was like ours, that the light turns on automatically when the door is opened, which allows for even less visibility outside the garage. Definitely no pleasure smoking under those conditions, taking also into consideration that she had a cold.

So that's why my conclusion is she went out because of 'someone' visiting, and that someone could have been bringing:

or :gift::sleigh::coffee::toastred:opcorn::getwell::chillpill::drink::cup::hen:<--

:cow:

 

[Woodland]

Sillybilly - you are correct on the date of the Will. At the bottom of page 12 (total number of docs I received and sent to you) the date appears to start with an F and ends in ary. At first glance it appears to be February, but is in fact January 2007. February was put in the application for appointment of Trustee.

Insurance policies are excluded from the probate process as stated in the standard application form along with jointly owned property (is that real estate and only real estate?) and property owned outside of Ontario. Unfortunately the definition of personal property is not included on the form. Could one interpret that to be owned items only or does it mean the applicant has to state the total value of cash, investments etc?

I will be able to speak to my lawyer 'next week' according to him. No idea what that date is and plan to ask all the questions I posted today and any others I think of later. More importantly, I want to listen further on his opinion of this Will.