CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #4

[Woodland]

PK did say in one of his posts that he pulled up to the garage and parked in the same spot he normally used.

 

[Woodland]

I wonder what it was about the crime scene that had a seasoned homicide detective telling the public the perp was a stranger to AG. Did he really think that? The detective did warn the public to be wary and careful at that time - now LE is not so sure about that?

While a profiler not associated with the case has said look young and close - what has HPS said about the steps they have taken or are taking these days?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

If I recall correctly doh, Special Agent Mark Safarik FBI was associated with this case as he was sought out by local LE for assistance.

Therefore, I'm still going with young and close.

Local LE very often ask for help from the FBI - the one I truly recall is the Paul Bernardo killings.:furious:

ETA - Link:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

Safarik says:

“(The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself,” said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly.

Safarik said those who kill the elderly “are not opportunistic offenders. They are not breaking into a place and stumbling upon the victim. He knows she’s there, know she’s by herself, and he goes there with intent to sexually assault and murder her. This is different than prior research suggesting women were opportunistic victims of non-violent offenders who become violent at the scene.”

These are angry young men with pent-up rage toward women and likely live with a female authority figure, he said. They are socially incompetent men who perceive little control in their lives, are typically undereducated, have substance abuse problems and are unemployed or in a menial job.

“For these guys, there is not a lot of planning, and they don’t stay at the scene long. They leave evidence, don’t clean up. They don’t think that far ahead.”

They use far more violence than necessary to kill. Overkill is indicative of their anger. This had been the case on Indian Trail.

They attack elderly women because they are easy targets — a child does not present as ready a victim because he is seen as having guardianship, whereas an elderly woman on her own has none. These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.

 

[Woodland]

I understand what Safarik is saying in his interview for the Spec, what I'm wondering is what made Hrab think it was a stranger initially. Could something have been determined later to have been staged, which then led HPS on the track that AG somehow knew her killer?

If nothing happens by the one year anniversary, hopefully HPS will give an update of some sort.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Did PK drive right up to the garage door? Or did he park on the street/roadway and walk up to the garage? He said he found the body and called 911. Then after returning to the body as directed by 911, he gave 911 the info they wanted and sat on the bumper of his car.

Where was his car parked? And was it raining while he sat there?

The Well's story says this:

"He turned his silver 2002 Hyundai Accent off Indian Trail into the driveway, past the small pond on the right and larger one on the left, and parked on the far side as he always did. He was bringing her some of her favourite cake. It was about 11 a.m."

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

It also mentions the weather on the 30th, but just says it started to rain at some point (no time given).

Of course if the murdered happened on the 30th, it could haven been raining already, and he might not worry about prints/tracks so much.

The main reason I suspect it happened on an earlier date is AG's lack of comms, after the final email on the 27th. (Though as mentioned, we're only going on what LE and the media has told us about this. ie: that the email around 6:00 pm on the 27th was the last time she was heard from. Maybe they're holding back as someone mentioned.)

 

[dotr]

Any chance the perp hosed down the whole garage and that info was withheld by LE?
Also wondering if any damage was done to the car, it just occured to me that if someone had a personal vendetta against A, the car would be slashed or "keyed".

Someone I know, once had to testify in court in support of a man charged with stealing women's purses. The thing is, the perp was not a thief in the usual sense, but rather, he had a fetish for tampons, uh - that were removed from purses. Now I know many elderly persons who may not be in the best of health and might occasionally need to rely on adult protection and therefore wear stretch pants for greater ease and comfort.I wonder if someone with a diaper fetish had made the assumption that AG had that problem and wanted the "trophy" and from there on things escalated....

 

[Woodland]

According to PK, he saw dried blood around A, but other blood etc could have been cleaned up especially to erase prints from footwear. Someone unfamiliar with the interior of A's garage would have difficulty knowing what would be available for clean up though.

A neighbor claims to have seen someone walking down AG's driveway with a backpack - if so and this was the killer, seems to show much forethought, which is why I have always wondered what Hrab saw.

 

[Sillybilly]

If I recall correctly doh, Special Agent Mark Safarik FBI was associated with this case as he was sought out by local LE for assistance.

Therefore, I'm still going with young and close.

Local LE very often ask for help from the FBI - the one I truly recall is the Paul Bernardo killings.:furious:

<snip>

NSU, could you please provide a link that states Safarik was called in on this case. Two reasons I ask:

1) although good, Safarik is a retired FBI profiler and

2) Canada has its own RCMP Behavioural Sciences Unit that would typically be consulted (and possibly result in a multi-agency brainstorming session that could involve international resources, but not which would include FBI profilers to the exclusion of the RCMP)

Thanks !

 

[dotr]

I was wondering why profilers from the States have been called in to some of these crimes that have taken place in Canada, unless of course they are searching for an American perp.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

<snip>

NSU, could you please provide a link that states Safarik was called in on this case. Two reasons I ask:

1) although good, Safarik is a retired FBI profiler and

2) Canada has its own RCMP Behavioural Sciences Unit that would typically be consulted (and possibly result in a multi-agency brainstorming session that could involve international resources, but not which would include FBI profilers to the exclusion of the RCMP)

Thanks !

The only link I have is the one where Jon Wells talks to Safarik! As for Safarik being retired - he's still an expert FBI profiler and those FBI guys who are still working (not retired) might not have the time to come to Canada to help us!

I believe with the Bernardo case, another FBI retired profiler came here to assist our police. (Could VERY easily be wrong, though!!):crazy:

Oh, and once I'm retired from working with young offenders I'll probably still know a lot about the system and how/why young people become offenders!:whoosh:

Did that help, sillybilly?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I was wondering why profilers from the States have been called in to some of these crimes that have taken place in Canada, unless of course they are searching for an American perp.

I think it's because the most prestigious and largest place for ALL types of people who work with criminals worldwide is in Quantico, Virginia. The FBI place! :twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To sillybilly:

I googled "Did Mark Safarik/the FBI assist in the Audrey Gleave case" and the Jon Wells article came up - the one I gave the link for above!! :dunno:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The Well's story says this:

"He turned his silver 2002 Hyundai Accent off Indian Trail into the driveway, past the small pond on the right and larger one on the left, and parked on the far side as he always did. He was bringing her some of her favourite cake. It was about 11 a.m."

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

It also mentions the weather on the 30th, but just says it started to rain at some point (no time given).

Of course if the murdered happened on the 30th, it could haven been raining already, and he might not worry about prints/tracks so much.

The main reason I suspect it happened on an earlier date is AG's lack of comms, after the final email on the 27th. (Though as mentioned, we're only going on what LE and the media has told us about this. ie: that the email around 6:00 pm on the 27th was the last time she was heard from. Maybe they're holding back as someone mentioned.)

Hey nic, many thanks for the link explaining where PK parked that day. (The memory is going!!)

:tyou:

 

[dotr]

Hamilton news today, a man's body is found and some comments made by locals makes it easier to understand why AG was afraid..


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/631409--barton-street-body-a-suspicious-death-police
The construction crews had been replacing the sidewalks in the area since August. They weren&#8217;t surprised a body was found in the neighbourhood and neither were many local residents and store owners.

&#8220;During the day it&#8217;s not bad. It&#8217;s night time you worry about,&#8221; said Vartan Keorhdjian, 43, who runs a tile and flooring store across the street. His tile shop is in a former CIBC building. The site of the investigation is in a former First Credit Union Bank, says Keorhdjian.

Shauna Wedge just moved to the area in April. She said she wasn&#8217;t shocked to learn a body was found a stone&#8217;s throw from her home. She recently moved from the Mountain, but said she&#8217;ll be moving before he two-year-old daughter begins school.

&#8220;The house is really nice on the inside but we really don&#8217;t like the neighbourhood at all. We have locks beyond belief,&#8221; Wedge said."
"

 

[Hazel]

To sillybilly:

I googled "Did Mark Safarik/the FBI assist in the Audrey Gleave case" and the Jon Wells article came up - the one I gave the link for above!! :dunno:

Could MS had just been talking in general terms, perhaps just being interviewed by JW, and not that he had been called to assist LE nor to prepare a profile of AG's killer?

What I'm trying to say is: Could it be possibe MS was just giving an opinion as an expert, an overview, of what he has seen and learned from "other" cases, where elderly women were victimized?

Re-reading the article, it can also be taken as if his knowledge of AG's case could be purely as an outsider, but he is not privy to AG's case file; has not been made aware of what evidence was found, etc? Just my humble opinion of course.

When homicide detectives search for a killer, they sometimes request a profile be developed by the Ontario Provincial Police Behavioural Sciences Section. Steve Hrab had taken courses in criminal profiling, the science of studying behaviour to paint a portrait of the perpetrator that can assist in identifying a suspect. He placed stock in its use as an investigative tool.
(WHEN and SOMETIMES, sounds to me he is talking hypothetically)

Perhaps a profile seemed unnecessary because David Scott appeared to be a slam-dunk suspect: previous arrests, known in Brantford for unpredictable behaviour, seen carrying a large knife and spotted near the victim&#8217;s home.
(could be interpreted as IF no profile was done, at least not at that point, or perhaps that JW doesn't know if it has been done or not....I personally cannot take this as an affirmation, JMO)

A behavioural profile of the killer in the Audrey Gleave case likely would have suggested the perpetrator was a younger male, in his 20s or early 30s, and someone who had known Audrey, or known of her, which was not the case with David Scott.
This sentence says: A behavioral profile - not profileR.....then continues to say "likely would have" (to me this sounds conditional, as IF no profile of AG killer was requested), all just my humble opinion

&#8220;(The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself,&#8221; said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly. (an elderly female, not specifically talking about AG, and to me it seems MS is telling this to JW, as his opinion, not that this is his conclusion in this particular case, after having prepared a profile.
I am now thinking that IF he had done so, it would have been the lead detective in this case, the one to let the public know in a news release, again all JMO.)

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/595858--who-is-audrey-gleave

 

[Hazel]

Hamilton police now say foul play not involved in Barton St death

Police had originally said they were treating the death as suspicious, but changed their description later in the afternoon.
..........
...the body of a man who appeared to be in his early 20s lying at the back of 652 Barton St. East, a block and a half west of Sherman Avenue North.

&#8220;It looks like he&#8217;s been there overnight because he was frozen,&#8221; said Miguel Alues, Misiti&#8217;s boss. &#8220;Until you go up closer, it looks like he&#8217;s a drunk asleep.&#8221;

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/631409--barton-street-body-a-suspicious-death-police
RIP whoever you are

 

[Canadian4]

Someone I know, once had to testify in court in support of a man charged with stealing women's purses. The thing is, the perp was not a thief in the usual sense, but rather, he had a fetish for tampons, uh - that were removed from purses. Now I know many elderly persons who may not be in the best of health and might occasionally need to rely on adult protection and therefore wear stretch pants for greater ease and comfort.I wonder if someone with a diaper fetish had made the assumption that AG had that problem and wanted the "trophy" and from there on things escalated....

There's some sick people in this world.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Hazel:

Could MS had just been talking in general terms, perhaps just being interviewed by JW, and not that he had been called to assist LE nor to prepare a profile of AG's killer?

What I'm trying to say is: Could it be possibe MS was just giving an opinion as an expert, an overview, of what he has seen and learned from "other" cases, where elderly women were victimized?

Re-reading the article, it can also be taken as if his knowledge of AG's case could be purely as an outsider, but he is not privy to AG's case file; has not been made aware of what evidence was found, etc? Just my humble opinion of course.



Of course - ANYTHING is possible! :crazy: Maybe it's time I gave up on posting about Mark Safaric!!:waitasec: That said, I'm STLL going with young and close!!

:doughboy:

 

[nicgumshoe]

Hamilton news today, a man's body is found and some comments made by locals makes it easier to understand why AG was afraid..


http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/631409--barton-street-body-a-suspicious-death-police
The construction crews had been replacing the sidewalks in the area since August. They weren&#8217;t surprised a body was found in the neighbourhood and neither were many local residents and store owners.

&#8220;During the day it&#8217;s not bad. It&#8217;s night time you worry about,&#8221; said Vartan Keorhdjian, 43, who runs a tile and flooring store across the street. His tile shop is in a former CIBC building. The site of the investigation is in a former First Credit Union Bank, says Keorhdjian.

Shauna Wedge just moved to the area in April. She said she wasn&#8217;t shocked to learn a body was found a stone&#8217;s throw from her home. She recently moved from the Mountain, but said she&#8217;ll be moving before he two-year-old daughter begins school.

&#8220;The house is really nice on the inside but we really don&#8217;t like the neighbourhood at all. We have locks beyond belief,&#8221; Wedge said."
"

I don't doubt it. I lived around there as a student 25 years ago and it was horrible then. Same thing, nice house but forget about walking around at night.

Funny thing, it was one of those 3 floor houses and I had the top floor. The couple below used to argue and throw stuff around. One afternoon, I was having a bath and heard a bunch of crashing below and figured they were just having another fight. Turned out, their place was being cleaned out by robbers in broad daylight. The crashing I heard was the door being kicked in!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Almost one year later, where do we stand now:

1. Young and close?

2. A stranger killing?

3. Someone who knew AG well?

4. DLS really did it?

5. Some other 'barn man' did it?

6. A GM mechanic did it?

7. A car thief did it?

8. A cop/FBI guy (whom I will not mention!:crazy did it?

9. A long, lost child of AG's did it?

10. A relative of someone who knew AG well did it?

11. It was done for her Will/money?

12. Other?

[modsnip]