CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This is an old article, but when re-reading it, something hit me:

http://www.brantconnection.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=2917051

Phil Kinsman said he is really going to miss his friend Audrey Gleave when the weather turns warmer and it's time again to prepare the garden.

"Spring was really Audrey's and my time," said Kinsman outside the Beckett-Glaves Funeral Home on Wednesday following a memorial service for Gleave.



Now, if AG loved being outdoors in the nice weather, doing her gardening and enjoying plants and planting - I have to ask - was AG really a 'recluse' as she's been portrayed? This image which PK gives in the link shows a woman who enjoyed being outdoors and who enjoyed the beauty of nature. To me, that's not a 'recluse'. AG might have led a quiet life; I don't think that makes her a 'recluse'.

So, anyone passing by her house would have seen AG out and about tending to her garden! Or just sitting near the garden, reading or whatever.

Does anyone know where this gardening would have been done? Behind the house? Near the cemetery? Visible from the roadway? Visible from the driveway to the garage? Where?
Thanks......

 

[bodhi93]

...
Does anyone know where this gardening would have been done? Behind the house? Near the cemetery? Visible from the roadway? Visible from the driveway to the garage? Where?
Thanks......

Good questions! I've looked a few times at the pictures we've seen of the property around the house and I still haven't seen any gardens (or outlines of gardens)... let alone ones that would require help to maintain. I know that I love to garden as well and you can definitely tell that someone around our house loves gardens... they are visible. Maybe it was watergardening that she enjoyed... in that case the plants may have been cut back, dormant or been taken in by that point in December. If the ponds were man made was there pumps, filters or fountains to take care of? The only other thing I can think of is that really it was the upkeep of the trees or treed areas of the property... and that was interpreted as gardening... just speculating...

ETA: I don't think whether she had gardens or not has anything to do with being killed... it's just been bugging me for a while that such a big deal was made of her love of gardening and I can't seem to find any gardens (they aren't obvious... to me anyway).

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Response to bodhi93 - I know what you mean. My love of gardening is visible everywhere.

I wonder if AG had a sort of indoor greenhouse? That way, she could have her interesting plants while remaining quite out of sight. Even a greenhouse attached to the back of her house.

Hmmm..........:waitasec:

 

[Woodland]

I'm not qualified to answer on the spelling of names in a legal document, however in a Will it seems pretty straightforward who the beneficiaries are, especially if the relationship is stated, as in - my children .... or my grandchildren ...

In AG's case only the name of the beneficiary is stated along with their city of residence - narrowing down the possibilities.

 

[roseofsharon]

I was in the Paris area today. I looked at built-in convection ovens. They are very expensive.

Would still like to know where AG purchased her convection oven.

How did she pay for her convection oven -- I believe PK once said he thought probably cash -- that's a lot of money to carry around in one's wallet, so I'm wondering if someone in the store where AG counted out the money for the convection oven may have decided to follow her to see where she lived, in order to return to perhaps rob her.

The ovens I looked at today were over $2,000.00.

Also, PK said that AG told him the person who installed the convection oven had been rude to her.

I really hope LE has followed up on this, as I think it is very feasible someone saw an elderly lady counting out a lot of cash and thought there must be more where it came from.

There just seems to be one missing link if we could just pinpoint that one missing link.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

I have driven by AG's home and I could not see any type of garden(s) in the front of the property.

I think Hazel provided some excellent shots of the perimeters of the home -- no landscaping there either.

Paraphrasing: AG and PK gardened the whole day and were exhausted and she asked him if he learned anything and then there was a quick hug between them.

There has been no mention of veggies and doing down veggies for the winter.

Where's the garden(s)!!!!

Just IMO

 

[roseofsharon]

This has always struck me as odd -- paraphrasing again here...

She hated the guts of the person(s) who broke the mail box.

It just doesn't sound like something an educated, retired, elderly lady would say -- ?:twocents:

Just imo.

 

[2soccermom]

I know what you mean, ROS, but I also remember she called her ex "fart face". She seemed to have been a very frank person, with a deep personal integrity; she didn't seem to have much patience for people who were indolent or undisciplined. I can see her being offended by such a mean-spirited crime, and not mincing her words in expressing that. She was, I think, a person of strong character. I think the idea that the oven delivery person with whom she had some apparent conflict should be questioned is good; I assume LE has done so. I hope.

 

[2soccermom]

BTW: thank you Dotr, Hazel, and NSU for commenting on that English class. I'm still disturbed by it, but since it seems a legit course with a respected teacher, it doesn't seem as totally creepy as I first feared.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

BTW: thank you Dotr, Hazel, and NSU for commenting on that English class. I'm still disturbed by it, but since it seems a legit course with a respected teacher, it doesn't seem as totally creepy as I first feared.

You're welcome. I'd have taught that part of the course BUT I'd have used a person whose case had been solved and the killer put away/jailed.

My biggest problem with the course is that AG is still very much 'alive' because LE haven't found the killer. Also, AG's murder is still too fresh.

That said, it's a good idea to teach young people that literature/novels/plays/poetry/etc. are relevant in the students' own lives today. (Teachers often hear - 'Why do I have to read/study this? The writer lived long before I was even born!').

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This has always struck me as odd -- paraphrasing again here...

She hated the guts of the person(s) who broke the mail box.

It just doesn't sound like something an educated, retired, elderly lady would say -- ?:twocents:

Just imo.

I agree with you roseofsharon on this point. I'm certain AG knew that the people who destroyed her mailbox were silly teens out for a so-called lark. AG had many years experience teaching teens; she'd have known about their pranks!

Now, as for AG calling the ex-husband "fartface" - well hey, we're all human! I can easily understand that one!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I have driven by AG's home and I could not see any type of garden(s) in the front of the property.

I think Hazel provided some excellent shots of the perimeters of the home -- no landscaping there either.

Paraphrasing: AG and PK gardened the whole day and were exhausted and she asked him if he learned anything and then there was a quick hug between them.

There has been no mention of veggies and doing down veggies for the winter.

Where's the garden(s)!!!!

Just IMO

Yep! Good questions/points!

roseofsharon - you've driven by AG's house. Is one able to see the back of the house at all from the road? If not - HOW would one get to see the BACK of AG's house? From the cemetery? From another road which perhaps is behind the house? How, please!

By this latest post, perhaps you all can see that I'm thinking of doing a drive-by during my (and my husband's) Xmas time off from work!! Just THINKING about it right now! :chicken:

---------------

ETA: I was just going over the recent posts here. It SEEMS that everything we know about AG (gardening, convection oven, mailbox, etc.) came from PK's accounts.

QUESTION: How can we be so certain that PK is to be believed? (No offence meant to PK if he was telling us/LE/Jon Wells the truth!) But, really PK's word is all we have AND let's not forget - there were inconsistencies in his polygraph! :waitasec:

 

[colette]

QUESTION: How can we be so certain that PK is to be believed? (No offence meant to PK if he was telling us/LE/Jon Wells the truth!) But, really PK's word is all we have AND let's not forget - there were inconsistencies in his polygraph! :waitasec:

Let's not forget polygraphs are not exact science and that Gary Ridgeway passed one. There is a reason they are not used in a court of law.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Let's not forget polygraphs are not exact science and that Gary Ridgeway passed one. There is a reason they are not used in a court of law.

I have not forgot that they are not used in a court of law. Sorry, but I don't know who Gary Ridgeway is/was. Shall look him up, though. :blushing:

Here's hope for finding the murderer of Audrey Gleave:

LINK - http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20111216/111216_Cold_Case/20111216/?hub=CP24Home

---------------

ETA: If anyone else is as out of it as I am :doh: and doesn't know that Gary Ridgeway is The Green River Killer, here's his info:

LINK - http://www.biography.com/people/gary-ridgway-10073409

He did pass the polygraph; I'm wondering if times have changed and if now LE do drug testing, etc. prior to polygraphs. Does anyone know?
Thanks....

 

[Woodland]

Colette - the name Gary Ridgeway will not escape most readers. Good point.

Keeping abreast of crime in Hamilton, there is a new report/video on the recent random stabbings in Hamilton.

http://www.thespec.com/feature/article/639901--video-cyclist-stabs-hamilton-pedestrian

So some new if not previous nut case is making themselves known to the public and LE - like AG's case and others, there has to be a motive. It doesn't have to be a sane motive, just a motive. This guy is choosing to do this out of the blue?

 

[roseofsharon]

Yep! Good questions/points!

roseofsharon - you've driven by AG's house. Is one able to see the back of the house at all from the road? If not - HOW would one get to see the BACK of AG's house? From the cemetery? From another road which perhaps is behind the house? How, please!

By this latest post, perhaps you all can see that I'm thinking of doing a drive-by during my (and my husband's) Xmas time off from work!! Just THINKING about it right now! :chicken:

---------------

ETA: I was just going over the recent posts here. It SEEMS that everything we know about AG (gardening, convection oven, mailbox, etc.) came from PK's accounts.

QUESTION: How can we be so certain that PK is to be believed? (No offence meant to PK if he was telling us/LE/Jon Wells the truth!) But, really PK's word is all we have AND let's not forget - there were inconsistencies in his polygraph! :waitasec:

I think, in order to see the backyard you would have to do a walk around, however, there is the cemetery, but right next to the cemetery is a long driveway (between the cemetery and AG's house) and there is a sign at this driveway that says the name of the farm. I can't remember the name of the farm, but I do remember it started with a W. This driveway goes up to the farm, which in an aerial view, looks like it is quite a ways behind AG's home, which is closer to the road.

Now if you walked up this driveway (the one between AG's and the cemetery) and then treked through some of the trees, I think you would be able to see the entire backyard, except for the side lot. However, in order to see around the other side of the home, I believe you would need to walk down AG's driveway and then do a walk around.

Hope this is making sense.

imo

 

[Woodland]

As there are new owners of this property since the end of March 2011, why not call them and make an appointment to view it so as not to be accused of trespassing or voyeurism?

I can privately give their names and work numbers. Seems the right thing to do, imo.

 

[roseofsharon]

As there are new owners of this property since the end of March 2011, why not call them and make an appointment to view it so as not to be accused of trespassing or voyeurism?

I can privately give their names and work numbers. Seems the right thing to do, imo.

Thanks Woodland. I have driven by twice now, the second time to check out the trees in front of the house. Maybe my wording was misleading in that I just meant if someone were to walk up the other driveway (perhaps even the perp to check out the backyard), I think the entire back of the yard could be viewed. I don't think I would want to step foot on the property at all. The first time I drove by it was to see if there was anything I could glean from the location to help LE, but the second time was to look at the trees. Both times gave me an overwhelming uncomfortable feeling. There were many areas of the property where the perp could be stealth like to achieve their goal. IMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thanks to roseofsharon again for the info. As for Woodland's point about calling the new owners, I wouldn't feel right about being so intrusive. Just the way I feel about it, nothing more.

Right now, I'm very satisfied with the descriptions from roseofsharon regarding what the house looks like and the property.

It seems we're all in agreement that the gardens are very difficult to see/locate, at least from the vantage points people do have.

And I highly doubt I'll be doing a drive-by in the foreseeable future. It's still too fresh and still unsolved. I mentioned earlier that we (husband and I) drove past Paul Bernardo's house. PB hadn't been caught yet and LE didn't know his name was Bernardo rather than Teale. As we drove around, I had this horrible sensation that we were near a very evil place. Later, once Bernardo and Homolka were caught, I saw on TV and in the newspapers that I'd had that ugly feeling right in front of the crime house. I think that was my one and only need for crime scene experience! :chicken:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

As there are new owners of this property since the end of March 2011, why not call them and make an appointment to view it so as not to be accused of trespassing or voyeurism?

I can privately give their names and work numbers. Seems the right thing to do, imo.

This post just reminded me of something - since AG was such a private person, I'm wondering if her telephone number was classified! Our phone numbers are classified because (mainly) of the kind of work I do.

We've asked family and friends to never pass along our phone numbers without asking us first. Did PK ever mention AG as having a classified phone number?