CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #5

[Chorley8]

It could be taken to be restorative/reparative "look nothing was taken" and it could be suggestive of either a. sexual attack/rape but more likely b. conflict over male/female (both at once).

 

[roseofsharon]

Did AG tell anyone that she was going to the Vet on Dec. 27?

Something doesn't sit well with me regarding the fact the AG was feeling under the weather enough that LV delivered soup the morning of Dec. 27, yet that very same day, AG drove to the vet with her dogs for vitamins!

Why, when you are feeling that lousy, would you venture out to pick up vitamins for your dogs. I can fully understand if one of the dogs was sick and needed medical attention, but just to run an errand to pick up canine vitamins. :waitasec:

This makes me think, there was more to AG leaving her home that morning than just going to the vet's.

Why would LV need to deliver soup? Was it a homemade conconction good for a cold, i.e. chicken noodle because most people have a can of soup on hand. I would think it would be a staple in most homes.

Did LV notice anything out of the ordinary with AG's demeanour that morning.

IMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I agree about AG going out to pick up the vitamins for the dog. In a town that small, wouldn't the vet have been able to deliver the vitamins to AG's house? Use a courier service? Drive the vitamins there himself?

Now - IF AG went out for ANOTHER reason, what could it be?

- To meet someone?

- To a doctor's appointment?

- To a pharmacy for her own meds (because she was unwell)?

- A rendez-vous?

- And really - how unwell was AG?

- To meet PK?

 

[dotr]

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/09/29/distraction-thefts-tied-to-international-crime-ring
"Cases have spanned Sudbury to Windsor, London to Montreal and beyond. Some seniors have been scammed as they walked home from church.

Thirty-four suspects have been arrested and more than 250 charges laid so far. Police have identified more than 400 people associated with the ring.

Project Mansfield, the largest investigation of its kind in Durham, began in November 2011 and several agencies, including the Canada Border Service Agency, RCMP, OPP and Interpol have lent support.

Police have seized $85,000 in cash and stolen merchandise, usually electronics, as well as identified more than $1 million in suspicious overseas wire transactions".

 

[dotr]

I agree about AG going out to pick up the vitamins for the dog. In a town that small, wouldn't the vet have been able to deliver the vitamins to AG's house? Use a courier service? Drive the vitamins there himself?

Now - IF AG went out for ANOTHER reason, what could it be?

- To meet someone?

- To a doctor's appointment?

- To a pharmacy for her own meds (because she was unwell)?

- A rendez-vous?

- And really - how unwell was AG?

- To meet PK?

Perhaps AG was being blackmailed and had to meet and pay someone to keep quiet about something/s she did not wish to be revealed?

 

[Chorley8]

I spoke to AG on Christmas Day and she stayed home all day. When she was sick, AG didn't go ANYWHERE. She would stay bundled up and hardly get out of bed and in fact it was a huge pet peeve of hers when people would go out and spread germs when they were sick. Incidentally that was another of her intense interests.... Finding the source of a particular bug. If I was ever sick, she would insist I stay home (and far away from her) but the first order of business on our reconvening would be to retrace my steps in intricate detail for the 48 hours preceding my illness.

All that leads me to thinking that she likely didn't leave home at all in the last week of her life but I can't be certain . The inability to retrace her routine in her last week is one thing that has really troubled me.

Relevant to last few posts this from P.K. here on WS.

 

[Chorley8]

"First then, questions about the scene. I realize the discrepancy between my description of the scene and Det. Hrab's. To be completely honest with you guys... I was really shocked as I started to get a sense of how gruesome LE perceived this crime to be. When I raised the door I saw Audrey lying on the floor and my eyes were immediately drawn to her face. I looked at the scene for only a fraction of a second before darting away. I saw hardened blood on the floor and that, along with the contortion of her body was what prompted me to call 911 and tell them she was dead. While I was on the phone with 911 the woman insisted that I go back and feel for a pulse. Even though I begged her not to make me and told her I was certain Audrey was dead, she didn't relent and I walked back. I bent over her to feel for a pulse (this was my only contact with her) and immediately left the scene again. Any details outside of her face were strictly seen in my periphery and are (thankfully) unclear in my mind. It didn't appear to me that her face was blue and as best I can remember, I believe she was wearing her sneakers but did not have her purse." (P.K here on WS)

Now later on WS when asked about the sexual component PK says that it was readily apparent by viewing the crime scene.

In line with D.'s recent comment here on the possibly symbolism of the purse note he does not mention the wounds or the evidence of the missing body part (assuming that is what we are talking about) but notes she "did not have her purse".

 

[Canadian4]

I sure would like to hear the 911 call of PK begging the operator not to make him go back in to see if AG was dead and being told he has to.

 

[roseofsharon]

The 911 operator must have assumed there had been an accident from the information PK relayed, otherwise, the operator should have advised PK to leave the scene immediately to get himself out of possible harm's way and not touch the body in any way. The perp could have still been in the home or on the property, hiding in the trees, which are very close to the driveway.

The fact that PK was instructed to touch AG's body was very wrong. Evidence may have been contaminated.

If PK told 911 the body was contorted, the operator should have known rigor was setting in, either partially or completed and this can only happen with a dead body.

911 did not ask enough questions.

IMO

 

[colette]

I don't remember that which post was that in?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

More questions:

1. Why are we tending to believe anything that PK posted here?

2. How do we know that the poster really was PK?

3. Chorley says that AG would never wish to spread germs. So why would she ever allow PK to deliver the cake or why would she allow her friend (sorry, I forget the name right now) to deliver soup?

Much of this simply does NOT add up.

:banghead:

 

[Chorley8]

I don't remember that which post was that in?

Yes here on WS if nobody finds but this evening when I get home I will find. And yes good to quote I should have.

 

[Chorley8]

More questions:

1. Why are we tending to believe anything that PK posted here?

2. How do we know that the poster really was PK?

3. Chorley says that AG would never wish to spread germs. So why would she ever allow PK to deliver the cake or why would she allow her friend (sorry, I forget the name right now) to deliver soup?

Much of this simply does NOT add up.

:banghead:

1. Well far from tending to believe anything of everything he posted I think I said it was possible none of that story about the missing part is true or it is being told another way for unconscious reasons. I think you are right he was never authenticated? But would WS leave those posts up if they didn't ID him not sure lots of you have been on here longer than me. So with some reservations I took it to be possible even likely to be him.

2. Your point about the soup and cake doesn't come just from WS of course I realize you know that. And I agree with those that think doesn't feel right there. So..

3. I would love to know the last time anyone saw Audrey not including LVS PK the Vet or the neighbour across the road. Personally I wonder if the "nothing ventured nothing gained" comments on FB are not communication by members of a small plot against Audrey. It is really tough to imagine all these people being in on it but it might make sense if we knew the whole motive.

4. Texas Stoelen or Stollen Cake. Something stolen from Audrey. Recipe from Time Life Books this has echoes in the comments from memorial I quoted few posts ago about Audrey's "life" and how short our "time"
is etc. Time Life Books (!) very archaic recipe book for someone whose wife is a chef. And the whole thing is described as if they are building the Empire State Building. Fits maybe with the time of the plot the time it takes to exercise the plot which I think may still involve Audrey being held and tortured/pressured to give up the location of something even the real will. Keys to safety deposit boxes. Places where money or METALS are hidden in the house.

5. I would be looking for someone close to Audrey who likes Texas Hold-em Poker probably on-line very popular though. Yes I personally feel the cake story is bogus. The soup feels strange but I don't know. I wouldn't really trust any of the people close to Audrey including the vet right now sorry to all of them but it is a serious crime.


6. Doesn't the AG pun in the email song Amazing Grace fit some of the unconscious or conscious punning I am alluding to here and in the previous couple of language analyses above (fast, amateur though they may be) ?

 

[dotr]

http://www.constitution.org/col/amazing_grace.htm
by John Newton
"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.


T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.



Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.


The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.


Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.



BBM (hope no one minds)

 

[roseofsharon]

1. Well far from tending to believe anything of everything he posted I think I said it was possible none of that story about the missing part is true or it is being told another way for unconscious reasons. I think you are right he was never authenticated? But would WS leave those posts up if they didn't ID him not sure lots of you have been on here longer than me. So with some reservations I took it to be possible even likely to be him.

2. Your point about the soup and cake doesn't come just from WS of course I realize you know that. And I agree with those that think doesn't feel right there. So..

3. I would love to know the last time anyone saw Audrey not including LVS PK the Vet or the neighbour across the road. Personally I wonder if the "nothing ventured nothing gained" comments on FB are not communication by members of a small plot against Audrey. It is really tough to imagine all these people being in on it but it might make sense if we knew the whole motive.

4. Texas Stoelen or Stollen Cake. Something stolen from Audrey. Recipe from Time Life Books this has echoes in the comments from memorial I quoted few posts ago about Audrey's "life" and how short our "time"
is etc. Time Life Books (!) very archaic recipe book for someone whose wife is a chef. And the whole thing is described as if they are building the Empire State Building. Fits maybe with the time of the plot the time it takes to exercise the plot which I think may still involve Audrey being held and tortured/pressured to give up the location of something even the real will. Keys to safety deposit boxes. Places where money or METALS are hidden in the house.

5. I would be looking for someone close to Audrey who likes Texas Hold-em Poker probably on-line very popular though. Yes I personally feel the cake story is bogus. The soup feels strange but I don't know. I wouldn't really trust any of the people close to Audrey including the vet right now sorry to all of them but it is a serious crime.


6. Doesn't the AG pun in the email song Amazing Grace fit some of the unconscious or conscious punning I am alluding to here and in the previous couple of language analyses above (fast, amateur though they may be) ?

I can't remember when we read that there was a sexual component to AG's murder.

IIRC, AG's elasticized slacks were still on her, but just ripped at the waistband.

Did LE report this aspect of the crime after autopsy.

Only the perp would know this information prior to the autopsy if the slacks were still on.

Also Chorley, could you expand on the Texas hold-em poker game theory!!! TIA

IMO

 

[Chorley8]

I don't remember that which post was that in?

'Thank you so much shadowraiths for this post. Regarding the sexual component, suffice it to say that it was visually obvious by observing the crime scene." (P.K. on WS)

Concerning recent speculation here: it can seem as though P.K. is doing everything to help looking at whatever this obvious sexual component is, begs not to go back, his gaze immediately drawn to her face.

Correcting myself: he doesn't say Time Life Books but Time magazine series of Foods of the World. He emphasizes that Audrey approached cooking in a scientific manner and trusted him to make a cake exactly following the recipes she didn't like deviation. He had made a spaghetti sauce before that she had "loved to death" so she 'trusted him' (Probably a red sauce) As I said is the cake a metaphor u.c. or conscious for the meticulous plan/plot.

His first two posts: seems what brings him on to WS is 1. his parents being sleuthed it is obvious he doesn't like that but again who would 2. mentions that he is again a person of interest and asks sleuthers here if they know what he can expect in the next couple of months. (I don't think we help him out with that but instead start piling on questions!). 3. his professed admiration for how close sleuthers here have figured out some details of the case. Now that is extremely interesting when I have time good to go back from that point and try to figure out what details and there not public P.K. might be referring to. 4. wants to appear cheerful, loving HARMLESS (giving his location, seemingly (maybe sincerely I don't know) open to questions and sharing facts. He misses us, admires us. We're the best. Whole Lotta Lovin. Nice guy. Etc.

Rose Sharon question: I promised not to carry this much further at least for now (linguistic analysis of statements) but it seems there is a lot of pressure inside P.K. making itself felt in the stories he tells. Apart from what I have written I think it includes 1. being kind of proud of one aspect of what happened could be the close relationship with Audrey could be something worse he is proud of that was "awesome" I don't know him and don't know what happened 2. Is NOT proud or is appalled by the sexual desecration (component) but, it could easily be that his relationship with A was either not platonic (nothing wrong with that) or he feels it could be interpreted that way maybe family would disapprove. I mean surely the police asked that question the lie detector he said he felt "explosed" can't blame him. A nightmare if innocent obviously.

Texas Hold'm/Texas Stollen same rhythm and a near rhyme it is actually a bit hard in English to say Stollen we tend to move it towards an "m" and thus a closer rhyme.

Interesting point: says he didn't discuss science with A then retracts saying ok horticulture is a science he forgot that. 'He spent 90% of his time with her talking about flowers/plants, current events, and the books SHE WAS READING' (not that he was reading). Overall this feeling Audrey has something that's needed.

Horticulture - "horde a culture"? Plant/"Nuclear plant" i.e. current events Chalk River whatever applications to nuclear research his own works and sci. around him might have.

OK promise not to overdo this maybe already have.

 

[Chorley8]

Taking NSU's advice here: how do we know that the A Grace video was the Rieu version? Checked by LE? Wondering about the Holden House video that has had a huge number of hits. Sorry if this has already been discussed.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Well, now I'm more confused than ever!

1. I don't use FB so I have NO IDEA what Chorley is talking about a FB page for/about Audrey.

2. There are other aspects of the posts above about which I have NO CLUE.

If someone could fill me in/explain.....I'd be grateful!

:tyou:

PS. And about WHO the poster named PK really is.....I doubt all of us are checked out (I might be Jack the Ripper!). But I would be pretty certain that LE has been watching this site and THEY have ways of tracking this person named PK. I think............

 

[Chorley8]

Well, now I'm more confused than
ever!

1. I don't use FB so I have NO IDEA what Chorley is talking about a FB page for/about Audrey.

2. There are other aspects of the posts above about which I have NO CLUE.

If someone could fill me in/explain.....I'd be grateful!

:tyou:

PS. And about WHO the poster named PK really is.....I doubt all of us are checked out (I might be Jack the Ripper!). But I would be pretty certain that LE has been watching this site and THEY have ways of tracking this person named PK. I think............

Just quick response for moment referring to P.K. and brother business page significant in that on day after murder just write happy new year's also some odd remarks leading up this was discussed will find page

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Just quick response for moment referring to P.K. and brother business page significant in that on day after murder just write happy new year's also some odd remarks leading up this was discussed will find page

Oh OK. I think we discussed that a long time ago. I remember the brother and the business thing - about cars, right?