CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #7

[colette]

Given that the killer seems to have known her movements, I strongly believe that he/she knew her.

(snipped)


Or someone who watched her or followed her could get info without knowing her...

 

[roseofsharon]

I don't think anyone followed A home ... I have changed my mind on this theory because if this was a random killer/stranger to AG, he would not have known that A lived alone. For all a random killer knew, A may have lived with other family members, such as a couple of big burly sons.

I also think the killer was well known to A. It was xmas and A had let more than one person know she was under the weather. I think the killer used A's illness as an excuse to go to her home. The motive is the mystery.

imo

 

[colette]

Could be former students who knew she wasn't married and had no kids. That kind of gossip gets around schools. A lot of people could have known that fact and not really know Audrey. She especially would make herself known and really more of a target by driving around in really hot cars, the killer could have asked around. Who is that old lady driving that great car? Then again as we have found out people can research license plates and info about anyone if you really want to. He could have felt anger towards her, who does she think she is, driving that car around town? You never know what warped things a killer can think, especially the one that killed Audrey.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I'm really sitting on the fence here. :fence: On the one hand, the car *seems* to be a motive. That said, we have to remember a few things:
- there was no forced entry
- LE has said the killer was someone known to her
- Audrey had been away from teaching for many years so the 'high school gossip' thing would have long passed
- she taught in a huge high school rather than a tiny school in a small town - I think this eliminates the gossip thing......teenagers are far more into themselves than into the lives of "old people"
- the car does stand out on the street and in parking lots but I'm losing interest in that as a motive
- look young and look close still sticks in my mind
- IF the car was the motive, why the sexual component? why not just overpower this 73 year old woman, grab the keys and drive away?

There's still a piece to this puzzle we're missing.

As far as linking it to the TB case....I feel LE would have done that already.

:twocents:

 

[Chorley8]

Excellent post and excellent point against it being fully random. Anywhere there you would have to worry about dogs including additional dogs and guns and yes sons/people.

I am still at a loss to understand how with all of the info that points towards it being a financial crime we are saying there is no motive. There is a pretty clear motive: financial.

And you mentioned the excuse of coming to the house for soup. We know about Audrey's last real email L is coming over in a few minutes. Now of course it does not have to really be L who is coming over Audrey just thinks so.

Now no way Audrey needs her dogs with L. My personal GUESS is that L was in the home more often than she says though really it is irrelevant. With L she would Audrey cage her dogs and come out to accept soup obviously she may not have wanted the soup but was just being polite.

Sometimes it works just to repeat things so...... I am interested in the person who said she was IN Audrey's home and it sounds like repeatedly. Made a POINT to say that on the memorial site.

Because they were worried or knew that their DNA was in the house?

Now Audrey's last real email still doesn't sound like Audrey to me. So the soup thing could just be a ruse but by now LE would know there is something wrong there. If L says I didn't make soup then something else is going on.

If L did make soup then either someone who knows that is using it or L is part of the plot wittingly but also quite possibly unwittingly.

I don't think anyone followed A home ... I have changed my mind on this theory because if this was a random killer/stranger to AG, he would not have known that A lived alone. For all a random killer knew, A may have lived with other family members, such as a couple of big burly sons.

I also think the killer was well known to A. It was xmas and A had let more than one person know she was under the weather. I think the killer used A's illness as an excuse to go to her home. The motive is the mystery.

I a not sure whether

1. That is Audrey with the hell or high water email
2. Or whether someone already is in control of Audrey at that point or that she is dead.

There could easily be another motive we don't know about that possibilities have been broached here.

imo

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I'm not at all certain what the motive was!

1. The CAR????????????????

2. Financial???????????

3. Anger/Hatred???????????????

4. Revenge?????????????

5. Sex???????????????

6. Greed???????????????

7. Knowledge of something????????????????

8. Belongings (money-wise or intellect-wise)??????????????????

9. A lunatic on the loose out for some thrills????????????????

:twocents:

I still say we're missing something here.

:drumroll:

 

[Pink Panther]

What we're missing is an understanding of one (sick) individual's personal rage.

Unfortunately, without knowing who that person is, it's difficult to even begin to understand.

moo

 

[roseofsharon]

Something that has always puzzled me is the fact that AG allegedly emailed someone in the coffee group to say she would have to miss the next coffee group. I can't remember if she said she was ill.

I don't know why, but imo this seems out of character for AG. I could understand it if this was a card group and the absense of a person would affect being able to continue playing cards and a substitute was needed, but this was just chit chat and coffee.

It just seems that a coffee group would be something you attended if you could make it and if you couldn't, you would just go to the next one.

I wonder if it was customary for all members of the coffee group to email another member any time they were not going to be there.

Since AG was so private, I just can't see that she would even want to give this personal information about being ill.

The following people knew AG was not well at xmas ...

- LV and her relatives/friends attending her home on Boxing Day
- PK and AK
- person/persons in the coffee group
- quite possibly DC, the vet

This is a pretty big circle for a woman, whom according to her friends was ...... a hermit, a recluse, a private person, a secretive person!

From the description of AG's clothing when she was found, she was not expecting company that day.

IMO

 

[Pink Panther]

I've come onto this thread a little late. I've gone back and done quite a bit of reading but I haven't managed to find a time-line yet. Is there one? If so, can someone please post a link to it???

 

[Sillybilly]

I've come onto this thread a little late. I've gone back and done quite a bit of reading but I haven't managed to find a time-line yet. Is there one? If so, can someone please post a link to it???

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Canada - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #7

 

[Sillybilly]

As far as linking it to the TB case....I feel LE would have done that already.

<rsbm>

I'm not ruling a connection in or out at this point. Any info we had on Audrey's Camaro are in the pulled threads, so we are at a bit of a disadvantage.

Without knowing the specs on Audrey's vehicle, it's hard to try to analyze how it might compare to Tim's desirable Cummins engine in the racing world.

Although we don't know when Audrey purchased her car, IIRC, someone (PK perhaps?) said that Audrey's 2010 Camaro came off the line in 2009.

According to this Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Camaro_(fifth_generation)#2010_ZL550.2FZL575_Special_Edition

there were four 2010 Camaro models:

Transformer Special Edition
Synergy Special Edition
2010 Indianapolis 500 Pace Car Special Edition (RPO Z4Z)
2010 ZL550/ZL575 Special Edition

I'm getting all bumbled between announcement dates, production dates, colours, accoutrements, etc. Can someone more knowledgeable in the automotive world please help by reading through the four models listed in the Wiki article to see if we can determine which model Audrey's was?

 

[Sillybilly]

I have a dumb question (and all the nice peeps chorus "No question is dumb" )

Could the engine from a car like Audrey's be put in another make of car, or same make but much older?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Audrey's car was the 2010 SS Camaro which came off the line in 2009 in time for the big Detroit auto shows.

I *suspect* the engine would be transferable to other vehicles. As long as the engine would fit into the next vehicle.

MY big question:
Did Audrey buy the car (as an "ordinary" SS Camaro) OR did she order it specifically to her own desired specs. Did she have the V6 engine or did she upgrade to a V8? The reason I ask this is because I've NEVER bought a 'Vette off the lot. I always have them ordered to my own specs. This means I can upgrage/downgrade the car. Did Audrey have the car custom ordered as I do? If so, a custom ordered car is even MORE desirable to thieves......thinking of the TB case again here.

:twocents:

ETA:

Oooops, I forgot part of SB's question. YES, I'm pretty certain Audrey's car engine (V6 or V8) could be put into an older Camaro in order to "soup it up". Oh dear......here's the soup again!

 

[Pink Panther]

So Audrey's brother-in-law was a PILOT? Her "handyman's" brother was a CAR BUFF, and her "handyman" started hanging out with her when he was 17? Lots of things to think about!

moo

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

So Audrey's brother-in-law was a PILOT? Her "handyman's" brother was a CAR BUFF, and her "handyman" started hanging out with her when he was 17? Lots of things to think about!

moo

WOW, that's good info!! I had no idea the BIL was a PILOT. I did know the handyman's brother was into cars bigtime! :drumroll:

Thanks so much for the info.........

 

[Snoopster]

bringing this photo of Audrey with her beloved Camero forward in case it provides any styling cues that can narrow down the model.

http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro...Name=8242/DeathRecordStub/619536/P1000815.JPG

It's from this post of Hazel's:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7171204&postcount=594

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I've been thinking a lot about Audrey's car. It looked so pristine in the pic at the shopping mall I was wondering:

- where did she have her car washed?

- did she wash it herself?

- did PK wash it?

- did it have leather seats?

- did it have 19 inch wheels/tires? (making it more fast and more sports-car like)

- did she put snow tires on in the winter months? if so, where did she store the summer tires?

- what did keep inside the vehicle? ID? insurance? an extra set of house keys? ice scrapers? anything which could have been used as a weapon?

As far as it *seems* right now, the car really is a huge motive. But then again, I'm not so sure..........:blushing:

ETA:

The pic was placed above as I was posting. It looks to me that the car *probably* had a V8 engine (because it has an air-scoop raised strip on the hood) and 19-inch wheels. It no doubt would have had dual exhaust, again because of the V8. All things VERY sports car and very much loved by sports car enthusiasts!!

 

[dotr]

That car is a beauty and Audrey looks happy and good too, imo.
Out of curiosity, what kind of truck is the one with the white stripe behind AG in the pic?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Those look like white vans behind her but the dark truck with the white stripe looks to be a pick-up truck. The 'white stripe' could also be a running board. :dunno:

The pick-up truck isn't a GM vehicle. I'd take a wild guess and say it's Japanese of some sort.

:dunno:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From what I can tell in the pic, Audrey added the following:

- custom tinted windows

- the V8 engine

- custom 19-inch wheels and custom wheel spokes (racing spokes)

- she's a good driver......parked perfectly between the lines and right at the front line

Does anyone know where the pic was taken? And WHO took the pic? Was it taken by a passer-by/stranger who admired the car?

Notice the licence plate number is not in the pic!

And she chose to park it in the blazing sun rather than over under the tree for shade. I suspect that was to avoid the acid from bird dropping near the tree!! (Man, Audrey and I are sooooo alike in the love we have for GM sports cars!!)

:twocents: