CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #7

[Pink Panther]

AG spent Boxing Day at LV's home, but was "feeling under the weather".

Here we have it, LV stating she, herself, delivered the soup!!! Finally, we know LV brought A some soup, but no mention of what kind of soup, i.e. canned/homemade, what type of container it was delivered in .... hmmm, still many many questions regarding this soup imo.


http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

I have never read that she spent boxing day at LV's home! I assumed that she hadn't gone out over the holidays at all.

moo

 

[Sillybilly]

Does anyone know/remember where LV was living at the time?

I believe you have that info now

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Just noticed for the first time that LV says AG lived for summer drives in her Camaro... does this mean that she did not drive the Camaro in winter?

Did she have another vehicle? or does this possibly mean she did drive the Camaro as necessary in the winter, but loved drives just for the sake of driving in the summer?

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

I *assume* it means that Audrey loved driving her Camaro in summer with the windows down, cruising around. These cars dont have four-wheel drive so it's a tad tricky in snow and ice. The rear end will slip and slide and it's easy to lose control in winter weather.

The voice of a 'Vette driver speaking!! :blushing: Camaros are called "baby 'Vette's" by the GM guys.

And in the summer, it's easy to get looks from construction workers and a whistle or two! :rockon: Just plain fun cars.........

 

[Pink Panther]

Woodland - Do you know if it's possible that there were addendum to AG's will???

 

[greenthumb]

I *assume* it means that Audrey loved driving her Camaro in summer with the windows down, cruising around. These cars dont have four-wheel drive so it's a tad tricky in snow and ice. The rear end will slip and slide and it's easy to lose control in winter weather.

The voice of a 'Vette driver speaking!! :blushing: Camaros are called "baby 'Vette's" by the GM guys.

And in the summer, it's easy to get looks from construction workers and a whistle or two! :rockon: Just plain fun cars.........

Would it be unusual for someone with a sporty, expensive car to put it away during the winter season to protect it from road salt, etc and have a second vehicle more suited to bad driving conditions? Just a thought...

 

[MsSherlock]

Would it be unusual for someone with a sporty, expensive car to put it away during the winter season to protect it from road salt, etc and have a second vehicle more suited to bad driving conditions? Just a thought...

I haven't seen a second car mentioned-but I can't imagine such a practical woman driving a sports car in the winter?? The answer would probably come freely from someone like PK.

But, I've been thinking about the incredibly rapid sale of AG's property. 3 months from murder to new owner. That's extremely quick under normal circumstances. Actually, only time I've seen it is when the death has been anticipated for months..ie cancer, hospitalized etc. How is it verified that LV was sole heir? I've just been able to come across info naming her as executor. I'm also perplexed on the fact that the property was never listed-that it was sold privately. Usually, when an estate is settled, the property has to get appraised and listed. Guess if LV was sole heir to it, she could forgo trying to get fair market value etc. Just strange...LV had only lived at her current address since 2006...AG had lived on Indian Trail since 1973-how long did they know each other? IMHO

 

[Pink Panther]

I haven't seen a second car mentioned-but I can't imagine such a practical woman driving a sports car in the winter?? The answer would probably come freely from someone like PK.

But, I've been thinking about the incredibly rapid sale of AG's property. 3 months from murder to new owner. That's extremely quick under normal circumstances. Actually, only time I've seen it is when the death has been anticipated for months..ie cancer, hospitalized etc. How is it verified that LV was sole heir? I've just been able to come across info naming her as executor. I'm also perplexed on the fact that the property was never listed-that it was sold privately. Usually, when an estate is settled, the property has to get appraised and listed. Guess if LV was sole heir to it, she could forgo trying to get fair market value etc. Just strange...LV had only lived at her current address since 2006...AG had lived on Indian Trail since 1973-how long did they know each other? IMHO

I agree, almost three months from when Audrey was found and her house had already been emptied and sold...Unusually fast.

Woodland is the one who was able to get a copy of AG's will...Maybe he/she can provide more information!

moo

ETA - I've read in various articles that they had been friends for 30 years. This is from sillybilly's timeline:

"1980 Approx year that Lyn V met Audrey when AG was a member of the Brantford Golf & Country Club. This is also the approx. year that Audrey and veterinarian Dr. Dudley Collins became friends."

 

[MsSherlock]

"There are unnamed items missing from the home. "
"The Monday after Christmas remains the last time Gleave is known to be alive, before being found brutally murdered in her home by a friend Thursday morning."
"That ended when police released the scene Tuesday. Friends and a cleanup crew spent the day cleaning out her home."
Source: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182146-friends-remember-audrey-gleave/
This article was written on Jan 5th, 2011 which was the Wednesday of her memorial? So, AG is found on the Thursday-police release crime scene on Tuesday-friends & clean up crew clean out her house and hold the memorial on Wednesday-not even a week has passed? Wonder who are the "friends" and "clean up crew?" That sounds like a professional service was hired?
IMHO, this is leaving me more perplexed than ever. If they were clearing out the house then the Will would have had to have been read sometime between Thursday and Tuesday-but to bring in a "clean up crew" for Tuesday would mean some advanced notice. I'm trying to figure out what the rush would be? IMO, AG had enough money in the bank to pay for her utilities etc for a bit- as a person who has dealt with a lot of estates, IMHO, this is the most rapid clean out I've ever come across...and it's been after a horrific murder and police presence. Maybe I'm not processing it right MOO

 

[Woodland]

Woodland - Do you know if it's possible that there were addendum to AG's will???

Unfortunately, I don't know anything further on AG's Will. I was so curious I paid a lawyer to get the copy I have. As a reminder, he didn't like the smell or feel of it and would not have filed it as it read.

Is anyone near or able to be near the Hamilton Courthouse who could go in and inquire? Take copies if addendum exist?

 

[Woodland]

"There are unnamed items missing from the home. "
"The Monday after Christmas remains the last time Gleave is known to be alive, before being found brutally murdered in her home by a friend Thursday morning."
"That ended when police released the scene Tuesday. Friends and a cleanup crew spent the day cleaning out her home."
Source: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182146-friends-remember-audrey-gleave/
This article was written on Jan 5th, 2011 which was the Wednesday of her memorial? So, AG is found on the Thursday-police release crime scene on Tuesday-friends & clean up crew clean out her house and hold the memorial on Wednesday-not even a week has passed? Wonder who are the "friends" and "clean up crew?" That sounds like a professional service was hired?
IMHO, this is leaving me more perplexed than ever. If they were clearing out the house then the Will would have had to have been read sometime between Thursday and Tuesday-but to bring in a "clean up crew" for Tuesday would mean some advanced notice. I'm trying to figure out what the rush would be? IMO, AG had enough money in the bank to pay for her utilities etc for a bit- as a person who has dealt with a lot of estates, IMHO, this is the most rapid clean out I've ever come across...and it's been after a horrific murder and police presence. Maybe I'm not processing it right MOO

I think you are are processing it just fine - the way it happened.

I never cared for the info that LV was unable to find any bank statements for AG's account(s). I don't believe LV had to phone around to find out where AG banked - what I do think is LV used this as part and parcel for filing only $50,000 in total assets. $50K was total filed apart from the house.

AG didn't buy a swanky new car and leave herself with only $50K to her name. Which makes Pink Panther's idea to find an addendum a very good move.

There was a post quite a while back (might be on a removed thread) that some sort of extension regarding AG's Will was filed a year or so after she died, but the house was long gone by then. Not sure what could have been going on.

 

[MsSherlock]

I think you are are processing it just fine - the way it happened.

I never cared for the info that LV was unable to find any bank statements for AG's account(s). I don't believe LV had to phone around to find out where AG banked - what I do think is LV used this as part and parcel for filing only $50,000 in total assets. $50K was total filed apart from the house.

AG didn't buy a swanky new car and leave herself with only $50K to her name. Which makes Pink Panther's idea to find an addendum a very good move.

There was a post quite a while back (might be on a removed thread) that some sort of extension regarding AG's Will was filed a year or so after she died, but the house was long gone by then. Not sure what could have been going on.

Well...I just took a drive to AG's house and it does appear to be a very large new build there.. AG's property was approx 43 acres and a very prime area. Sales in 2012 for similar sized properties were between 650K and 1 million for similar sized properties. I find it extremely odd that someone would inherit and sell off a house and acreage for hundreds of thousand less than it was worth. That's extremely generous...but then again, I guess if you were distraught you might make silly impulsive decisions. IMO
Yes, I understand that it was a crime scene, but IMHO that wouldn't significantly impact the value of 43 acres of extremely scenic land. The value in that area is in the land. How did the current owners know it was for sale so quickly? If it had been listed on the market it's hard to say what it would have sold for.

I happen to be near the Court House in Hamilton-not sure what I would be looking for or asking for? There are also other assets. AG would have had a teachers pension, RRSP's...probably converted into a RRIF. She had lived in the house since 1973-so I'm assuming it was long paid for. IMHO, AG should have had a substantial amount of money-I agree-certainly more than a 50K bank account. MOO

 

[Chorley8]

We're back on track (financial motive) IMO.

I think you are are processing it just fine - the way it happened.

I never cared for the info that LV was unable to find any bank statements for AG's account(s). I don't believe LV had to phone around to find out where AG banked - what I do think is LV used this as part and parcel for filing only $50,000 in total assets. $50K was total filed apart from the house.

AG didn't buy a swanky new car and leave herself with only $50K to her name. Which makes Pink Panther's idea to find an addendum a very good move.

There was a post quite a while back (might be on a removed thread) that some sort of extension regarding AG's Will was filed a year or so after she died, but the house was long gone by then. Not sure what could have been going on.

 

[MsSherlock]

As far as the purchasers for AG's house-the father of JK who bought the property, lives almost directly across the road from AG and has since 1985. JK joined her fathers practice in 2006, so I think I'm safe to say that she grew up there and probably knew AG MOO

 

[Woodland]

Well...I just took a drive to AG's house and it does appear to be a very large new build there.. AG's property was approx 43 acres and a very prime area. Sales in 2012 for similar sized properties were between 650K and 1 million for similar sized properties. I find it extremely odd that someone would inherit and sell off a house and acreage for hundreds of thousand less than it was worth. That's extremely generous...but then again, I guess if you were distraught you might make silly impulsive decisions. IMO
Yes, I understand that it was a crime scene, but IMHO that wouldn't significantly impact the value of 43 acres of extremely scenic land. The value in that area is in the land. How did the current owners know it was for sale so quickly? If it had been listed on the market it's hard to say what it would have sold for.

I happen to be near the Court House in Hamilton-not sure what I would be looking for or asking for? There are also other assets. AG would have had a teachers pension, RRSP's...probably converted into a RRIF. She had lived in the house since 1973-so I'm assuming it was long paid for. IMHO, AG should have had a substantial amount of money-I agree-certainly more than a 50K bank account. MOO

Have no idea how to go about finding the Will or an addendum etc that may be filed with it. Maybe it will take more than one try, but there should be further info - ie the extension (or whatever it was) that was signed a year or so after by LV.

Good luck if you are able to try!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Would it be unusual for someone with a sporty, expensive car to put it away during the winter season to protect it from road salt, etc and have a second vehicle more suited to bad driving conditions? Just a thought...

Hi: It's not unusual to do that BUT most likely the cars that are put on blocks and covered in a garage in the winter are VINTAGE cars. They are brought out again for the Spring/Summer car shows.

Now, a REAL crazed 'car freak' (my doctor!!) collects vintage 'Vettes and Camaros and he only drives them for about 8 - 10 weeks per year. It takes a great deal of money to do that kind of thing......renting a safe garage, having a mechanic see that the cars aren't leaking oil during the winter.....it's a big, costly deal.

I drive my 'Vette year long. To give me extra traction, I ALWAYS keep the tank full of gas. That makes the car heavier in snow and ice.

I highly doubt that AG stored her Camaro(s) for the winter. Besides, PK found her near the Camaro in her own garage. There didn't seem to be a tarpaulin over the car nor was it up on blocks.

Did that make any sense at all?:blushing:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

In reading all of your posts tonight, the conclusion (for me) is that MONEY/PROPERTY was the motive. Not the car.

I'm having not-so-good feelings about LV and the V family.

:maddening:

Oh, and WHY was AG cremated so quickly? WHY did LE release the body for cremation so fast? WHO ordered the cremation? Did AG say anything in her Will about cremation? (I know some religions require the body to buried within 24 hours.......But......)

:scared:

 

[Pink Panther]

Have no idea how to go about finding the Will or an addendum etc that may be filed with it. Maybe it will take more than one try, but there should be further info - ie the extension (or whatever it was) that was signed a year or so after by LV.

Good luck if you are able to try!

Woodland, was the actual will available to the public? If so, wouldn't it be the same for an addendum or extension?

 

[Pink Panther]

As far as the purchasers for AG's house-the father of JK who bought the property, lives almost directly across the road from AG and has since 1985. JK joined her fathers practice in 2006, so I think I'm safe to say that she grew up there and probably knew AG MOO

Sherlock - This is what I was nattering on about! I had read that the neighbour's children had bought the house! (Got the wrong neighbour...)

: )

ETA - If she didn't know her (AG), she probably knew of her. I agree.

 

[Pink Panther]

""She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said."

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

Very bizarre. Wouldn't this be an important piece of information? Why does it only show up inconsequentially in this article? When PK posted, he said that he was troubled about the fact that he couldn't trace her whereabouts her last few days. He was talking with LV wasn't he???

Also:

"Gleave attended a lot of the Vanstone family gatherings, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter." Why no mention of the fact that this year, the year she was killed, she didn't attend Christmas? That she had been sick and had been missed?"

moo

ETA - Have any of you found this information elsewhere?

 

[Pink Panther]

"There are unnamed items missing from the home. "
"The Monday after Christmas remains the last time Gleave is known to be alive, before being found brutally murdered in her home by a friend Thursday morning."
"That ended when police released the scene Tuesday. Friends and a cleanup crew spent the day cleaning out her home."
Source: http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182146-friends-remember-audrey-gleave/
This article was written on Jan 5th, 2011 which was the Wednesday of her memorial? So, AG is found on the Thursday-police release crime scene on Tuesday-friends & clean up crew clean out her house and hold the memorial on Wednesday-not even a week has passed? Wonder who are the "friends" and "clean up crew?" That sounds like a professional service was hired?
IMHO, this is leaving me more perplexed than ever. If they were clearing out the house then the Will would have had to have been read sometime between Thursday and Tuesday-but to bring in a "clean up crew" for Tuesday would mean some advanced notice. I'm trying to figure out what the rush would be? IMO, AG had enough money in the bank to pay for her utilities etc for a bit- as a person who has dealt with a lot of estates, IMHO, this is the most rapid clean out I've ever come across...and it's been after a horrific murder and police presence. Maybe I'm not processing it right MOO

"It has been hard to focus on anything," she said.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

Sounds like there was a lot to do in 5 day's time...

moo