CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #7

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Please remind me - how were SL and SV involved with horses. The memory is going!

I know Audrey was involved with horses/horse racing at one time.

Thanks guys......

 

[Sillybilly]

Please remind me - how were SL and SV involved with horses. The memory is going!

I know Audrey was involved with horses/horse racing at one time.

Thanks guys......

It's not about a connection SV or SL had to horses; it's about the fact that SV's vehicle was left outside Greenhawk equestrian in O'ville and JV's interest (involvement?) in the Bolton/Caledon/Orangeville area, and a follow-the-dots to the Wellington, FL horse racing activities.

Although he was initially found to be in Audrey's circle, his equestrian interests certainly have the potential to put him smack dab in the centre of the areas of interest in those two other cases.

hth

 

[Woodland]

Following SB's post - an item listed under 'other' on JV's fb page is Mon****a F***s in Claremont, Ontario - another equestrian facility.

Claremont is very near Uxbridge, Ontario. Margarita anyone? Just thinking out loud.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

It's not about a connection SV or SL had to horses; it's about the fact that SV's vehicle was left outside Greenhawk equestrian in O'ville and JV's interest (involvement?) in the Bolton/Caledon/Orangeville area, and a follow-the-dots to the Wellington, FL horse racing activities.

Although he was initially found to be in Audrey's circle, his equestrian interests certainly have the potential to put him smack dab in the centre of the areas of interest in those two other cases.

hth

Oh gee SB, thanks kindly. :drumroll: "In Audrey's circle" is a powerful statement!

I'm having a moment..........:chillout:

 

[Sillybilly]

Oh gee SB, thanks kindly. :drumroll: "In Audrey's circle" is a powerful statement!

I'm having a moment..........:chillout:

I've had two "moments" in my lifetime .. the first was very brief; the second one has lasted about 50+ years

YW

 

[Sillybilly]

Following SB's post - an item listed under 'other' on JV's fb page is Mon****a F***s in Claremont, Ontario - another equestrian facility.

Claremont is very near Uxbridge, Ontario. Margarita anyone? Just thinking out loud.

Who is Margarita?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoting from SB:

<<< Although he was initially found to be in Audrey's circle, his equestrian interests certainly have the potential to put him smack dab in the centre of the areas of interest in those two other cases. >>>



I swear on my own life that these 3 cases are linked. Too many coinkidinkys; too close geographically; too many unanswered questions; NONE have been solved by LE.

hwow:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Who is Margarita?

A friend of Jimmy Buffet? :lol:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

One would have to know something about the murder weapons and actions to the victims now. Maybe something e.g. to bring veterinary medicine in conjunction (or other professional or hobby). But the police unfortunately leaves us in the dark.

 

[dotr]

Who is Margarita?

http://www.thesudburystar.com/2011/08/05/man-wanted-in-teens-death-believed-to-have-fled-3
"Babak Ghanad, 35, is wanted on a first-degree murder warrant for the slaying of Margarita Shumakova, 18.

The body of the Toronto teen was found on July 8 in a wooded area near Uxbridge, Ont., about 80 km from Toronto.

The teen went missing on July 3, after spending the Canada Day weekend with friends"

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

About SL's vehicle - do we know if she went to that location (where the vehicle was found) on the day of her attack?

I know she was attacked in her photography studio on the property of her house. Her husband Glen found her severly beaten.

Also, has there been any info about her recovery? Is she able to speak yet? Can she give a drawing to police yet?

What concerns me most is that there is a killer/attacker still on the loose AND it's getting near the time of year when these 3 women were killed/attacked.

 

[Sillybilly]

About SL's vehicle - do we know if she went to that location (where the vehicle was found) on the day of her attack?

I know she was attacked in her photography studio on the property of her house. Her husband Glen found her severly beaten.

Also, has there been any info about her recovery? Is she able to speak yet? Can she give a drawing to police yet?

What concerns me most is that there is a killer/attacker still on the loose AND it's getting near the time of year when these 3 women were killed/attacked.

You have the 2 cases mixed up a bit. In Shelley's case, a vehicle was not involved and she was found in her studio in Mono. It was Sonia's case where her vehicle was found beside GHawk in Orangeville.

 

[dotr]

March 07 2012

http://www.orangeville.com/news-sto...murder-loder-attack-human-remains-discovered/

"Serial killers are so rare, it&#8217;s not a conclusion we should lead to,&#8221; he said, referring to 2010 murder of Orangeville&#8217;s Sonia Varaschin, the near-fatal attack on Mono resident Shelley Loder that same year, as well as several discoveries of human remains &#8212; Van Sanh Tieu inside a burned down Alton building and Kera Freeland in a Caledon ditch, both last March, as well as skeletal remains found near Caledon Village just a couple weeks ago.
Turning specifically to Varaschin&#8217;s murder, the Brighton-area author feels her killer&#8217;s original intent may not have been murder. Rather, he suspects the perpetrator had a &#8220;disorganized mindset&#8221; and &#8220;lost control&#8221; of the situation.
&#8220;Maybe it was a stalker type of scenario, where he thought there might be some reciprocation of affection,&#8221; Mellor said, echoing a theory police have acknowledged. &#8220;We&#8217;re not looking at a professional or coolheaded murderer here.&#8221;
Though he doesn&#8217;t believe Varaschin&#8217;s murder is directly related to the vicious attack on Loder about three months later, he acknowledges similarities in the cases.
&#8220;The victimology lines up there to a degree,&#8221; he said, noting a copycat criminal may explain similarities. &#8220;Both were home invasions and close geographically.&#8221;
He added both crimes involved &#8220;very personal and hand-to-hand&#8221; violence and the attacker likely knew their victim&#8217;s habits.
&#8220;I believe both women had to be under surveillance by the person that attacked them,&#8221; Mellor said".

 

[Sillybilly]

March 07 2012

http://www.orangeville.com/news-sto...murder-loder-attack-human-remains-discovered/

"Serial killers are so rare, it’s not a conclusion we should lead to,” he said, referring to 2010 murder of Orangeville’s Sonia Varaschin, the near-fatal attack on Mono resident Shelley Loder that same year, as well as several discoveries of human remains — Van Sanh Tieu inside a burned down Alton building and Kera Freeland in a Caledon ditch, both last March, as well as skeletal remains found near Caledon Village just a couple weeks ago.
Turning specifically to Varaschin’s murder, the Brighton-area author feels her killer’s original intent may not have been murder. Rather, he suspects the perpetrator had a “disorganized mindset” and “lost control” of the situation.
“Maybe it was a stalker type of scenario, where he thought there might be some reciprocation of affection,” Mellor said, echoing a theory police have acknowledged. “We’re not looking at a professional or coolheaded murderer here.”
Though he doesn’t believe Varaschin’s murder is directly related to the vicious attack on Loder about three months later, he acknowledges similarities in the cases.
“The victimology lines up there to a degree,” he said, noting a copycat criminal may explain similarities. “Both were home invasions and close geographically.”
He added both crimes involved “very personal and hand-to-hand” violence and the attacker likely knew their victim’s habits.
“I believe both women had to be under surveillance by the person that attacked them,” Mellor said".

<bbm>

I know Mellor is a crime author, but I would place more importance on the theory if it came from the BSU guys in LE. I don't recall LE mentioning any theory wrt "reciprocation of affection" ???

 

[Sillybilly]

Funny that Woodland would mention Margarita's case. Did they ever apprehend Ghanad?

Just when she posted it, I was peeking around about a place in Bowmanville called VanS**ne Mill, originally owned by Samuel V (now called VanS**ne Mill Inc / Wel**me Feeds). If I've got the right Samuel, he was born in Devon !! Wondering if there are some ancestral connections to Samuel V that might draw a person to the Bowmanville/Claremont area. Also, the fact it is a feed store, wondering if there might be some connection to the equestrian circles we are rummaging in.

Anyway I'm rambling ... I didn't think of Margarita because they have a named suspect in her case; was thinking instead of the UID found near the Darlington nuclear plant in 2006.

 

[Woodland]

I appreciate LM has an opinion on what conclusions people should and should not draw, but with regard to unsolved killings, I'll hold myself open to possibilities until they are solved.

The organized vs disorganized killer with 7+ billion people in the world always struck me as a little narrow. Jmo though.

 

[dotr]

One profile of Audrey's murderer.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/

" (The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself,&#8221; said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly.

Safarik said those who kill the elderly &#8220;are not opportunistic offenders. They are not breaking into a place and stumbling upon the victim. He knows she&#8217;s there, know she&#8217;s by herself, and he goes there with intent to sexually assault and murder her. This is different than prior research suggesting women were opportunistic victims of non-violent offenders who become violent at the scene.&#8221;

These are angry young men with pent-up rage toward women and likely live with a female authority figure, he said. They are socially incompetent men who perceive little control in their lives, are typically undereducated, have substance abuse problems and are unemployed or in a menial job.

&#8220;For these guys, there is not a lot of planning, and they don&#8217;t stay at the scene long. They leave evidence, don&#8217;t clean up. They don&#8217;t think that far ahead.&#8221;

They use far more violence than necessary to kill. Overkill is indicative of their anger. This had been the case on Indian Trail.

They attack elderly women because they are easy targets &#8212; a child does not present as ready a victim because he is seen as having guardianship, whereas an elderly woman on her own has none. These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.

&#8220;But a homeless guy in his 40s or 50s?&#8221; Safarik asked rhetorically when considering the Gleave case. &#8220;Hmm &#8230; My advice is look young and look close.&#8221;

 

[dotr]

Funny that Woodland would mention Margarita's case. Did they ever apprehend Ghanad?

Just when she posted it, I was peeking around about a place in Bowmanville called VanS**ne Mill, originally owned by Samuel V (now called VanS**ne Mill Inc / Wel**me Feeds). If I've got the right Samuel, he was born in Devon !! Wondering if there are some ancestral connections to SV that might draw a person to the Bowmanville/Claremont area. Also, the fact it is a feed store, wondering if there might be some connection to the equestrian circles we are rummaging in.

Anyway I'm rambling ... I didn't think of Margarita because they have a named suspect in her case; was thinking instead of the UID found near the Darlington nuclear plant in 2006.

bbm, this uid often comes to mind.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120092&highlight=Bowmanville

 

[Chorley8]

Let's not dismiss Safarik too easily.

Have we given enough attention to:

1. Other young neighbours of Audrey's? This is tough to do here actually but at least in general terms. There were others. It is remarkable nobody here went for them - of course they probably had nothing to do with it so just as well......but we need to think still.
2. A young unknown from the area (going a bit further out but including kids who would know about Audrey, cycling, visiting the graveyard etc).
3. Could one of her good friends especially P.K. given his youth inadvertently given info to a friend not realizing what they would do with that info?
4, Then never my favourite theory but the cemetery again. Kids hanging around there.

One poster recently here dismissed Safarik a bit and I understand why - on the other hand it is worth running through what he had to say.

As supportive here as everyone is of Audrey I do wonder how she was perceived by youths in the area assuming she was on their radar at all. I mean kids can be pretty mean and as we age ourselves we forget how old people seem to the young - let's face it ridiculous sometimes!

One profile of Audrey's murderer.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/

" (The killer) has knowledge that an elderly female lives there by herself,” said Mark Safarik, a retired FBI profiler with expertise in violent crime against the elderly.

Safarik said those who kill the elderly “are not opportunistic offenders. They are not breaking into a place and stumbling upon the victim. He knows she’s there, know she’s by herself, and he goes there with intent to sexually assault and murder her. This is different than prior research suggesting women were opportunistic victims of non-violent offenders who become violent at the scene.”

These are angry young men with pent-up rage toward women and likely live with a female authority figure, he said. They are socially incompetent men who perceive little control in their lives, are typically undereducated, have substance abuse problems and are unemployed or in a menial job.

“For these guys, there is not a lot of planning, and they don’t stay at the scene long. They leave evidence, don’t clean up. They don’t think that far ahead.”

They use far more violence than necessary to kill. Overkill is indicative of their anger. This had been the case on Indian Trail.

They attack elderly women because they are easy targets — a child does not present as ready a victim because he is seen as having guardianship, whereas an elderly woman on her own has none. These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.

“But a homeless guy in his 40s or 50s?” Safarik asked rhetorically when considering the Gleave case. “Hmm … My advice is look young and look close.”

 

[Chorley8]

Just wondering if the aged are attacked because of a phobia kids have of the notion of aging and dying themselves?

And just want to emphasize this sentence from Safarik: These killers also tend to live relatively close to their victim.