CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #7

[Deleted member 102539]

Now I'm quoting my own posts!! :scared:
"did not ever want to be the focus of attention" yet AG drove a late model white Camaro with black racing stripe? Racing thru the streets of Brantford as one mourner tells http://beckettglaves.frontrunnerpro.../Audrey-Gleave/view-a-story.php?StoryId=15218

Also states knew her for past several years, shared sodoku puzzles and gardening tips. IMHO, I don't even think AG minded being the focus of attention when she was driving her car! MOO

And now I'm quoting your post. :yes:
I think, AG liked to be among people and friends and liked also to be alone to perform her hobbies. And with the Camaro - no way, a recluse would buy and drive like she did! Also MOO
There must be a reason, why LV had called AG "recluse" ... but which? Perhaps in the last 3 years AG would spent her free time without LV? But in this case I fortiori don't understand the Will. Therefore:?????????????????

 

[colette]

And now I'm quoting your post. :yes:
I think, AG liked to be among people and friends and liked also to be alone to perform her hobbies. And with the Camaro - no way, a recluse would buy and drive like she did! Also MOO
There must be a reason, why LV had called AG "recluse" ... but which? Perhaps in the last 3 years AG would spent her free time without LV? But in this case I fortiori don't understand the Will. Therefore:?????????????????

The neighbors Linda & Daryl also called her a recluse, "almost like a hermit". The clip of the news story is in the online book by one of her email friends linked above.

 

[MsSherlock]

Hi Peeps!

Question: Why would LE say 'young and close'?

Any idea's on where they were coming from on that one?

Thx! SK

JMHO SideKick, I feel this is why so many murders go unsolved. LE call in the profilers and then everyone looks in that direction. IMO, for anything gruesome with a sexual component added, LE always think male whereas we need only look to JA to see that women can be vicious murderers as well. Guess they have to start somewhere. MOO

 

[Chorley8]

"Given we suspect someone other than Audrey may have sent the email to LF, it is as if that someone wanted us to believe that Audrey was still alive that evening."

Sillbilly this is simple, yet brilliant - we haven't been very good at creating scenarios as to time of death which has to relate to some extent to method and 'who did it'.

OK taking up your challenge in the two minutes spared to me at the moment - following your line of thought if someone wanted others to think Audrey was alive then

1. she wasn't so this would narrow time of death.

2. Or she is alive but being held hostage.

2. OMG I think you have really hit on something - let's just assume the F. family and P.K. are the people somebody wants to think A is still alive NOW the email starts to really fit since a.) once is a neighbour and 2. one is the friend who might just stop by with that cake as a surprise. So in the perp's mind that email either buys time OR possibly is a message.

3. L brings soup and the email says she is bringing soup. Very very interesting since LV is almost certainly the last person to see A alive bar the killer/s and the vet (I doubt the latter).

4 The email is very future oriented and sort of 'predicts' the event where the last person to see Audrey arrives at her house. And the predicts her attendance at coffee on Wed.

5.AND these two things are just minutes apart she is coming by "in a few minutes".

6. What you suggest does preclude a plot either including any of the other central actors.

7. Is Audrey's attendance at LV's certain on the 26th? I would say no - no other witness to that than LV?

8. CHRISTMAS DAY sorry for these capitals but I am writing this quickly and need to get the main points across. Audrey is very cautious at home but surely Christmas Day or Christmas Eve are good days for a surprise visit.

6. Not a few minutes but ALREADY THERE. (This a suggestion).

3. Promising to attend coffee on Wed. makes you think the person is kicking their illness nothing to worry about.

4. as has been said 'hell or high water' mildly apocalyptic like A. Grace.

5. The dogs are the thing that bothers me. Sorry to increase the number of people we are suspicious of here. Could the dogs have been made ill and then left at D's (who changed the time of last time saw Audrey) THEN returned to the house after the crime? Even at the time her body was found? (I am trying to deal with the fact that P.K. at least said there was no obvious dog mess also LE did not point to that as an indicator of time of death - this is not certain though).

 

[dotr]

JMHO SideKick, I feel this is why so many murders go unsolved. LE call in the profilers and then everyone looks in that direction. IMO, for anything gruesome with a sexual component added, LE always think male whereas we need only look to JA to see that women can be vicious murderers as well. Guess they have to start somewhere. MOO

Wondering if a killer's profile ie. young and close, which would normally imo, suggest a young male living nearby, could also suggest someone who simply has those traits?

Young poi = male, healthy, strong,sexual,angry, impulsive, charming,intimidating??

Close poi = nearby,related, intimate,romantic,friend,coworker,competitor.


Who may have these traits and not be male, young or close?

 

[Chorley8]

Sorry meant to say in point 6 does NOT preclude a plot.

From Germany: I wasn't aware of these books. Thanks.

The friend photographer JH who knew AG took trip from December 24th and arrived back home on the 1st. http://www.stjeromes1966.com/kenjanzen.info/1-mennonites.html

Lots of description of illness. Need to compare to "hell or high water" email.

McSherlock yes I have said that the CK message is of extreme interest - says they have been in A's home. Seem to live about 20 minutes from JH. Seem to have family related outdoor store like the one where AG met PK. May be link to libraries. Did Audrey drive out that way I have no idea. They live absurdly close to someone who is of extreme interest to me - - due to rules will leave at that unless I can find a way to articulate.

 

[Chorley8]

In line with From Germany's interest in JH I want to broach the possibility of an earlier timelines as possible.

I think the last date we (probably) know Audrey to be alive is actually the coffee klatch on the 22nd. There a number of people would have seen her so I am thinking LE are comfortable she was there.

Any later date assumes we trust:

1. LV
2. P.K.
3. possibly the vet but his story is hazy.

I am not saying I distrust any of them but I don't trust them either we have to keep an open mind.

Now IF there was a large gathering at LVs on the 26th then that changes things. If I was going to guess right now I would think it was just her and Audrey. (Assuming it even happened).

I don't think we know?

LE will know of course about purchases Audrey made of gas etc. unless she paid cash.

 

[SideKick]

I've made a calendar as I need a visual.
I can always re do it and add what I have missed if needed.
I find it odd that PK didn't call A to wish her a Merry Christmas, or did he?
I have been searching articles to no avail.
Also, to no avail I cannot locate where LV states A came over on the 26th Dec.??

This calendar looks lonely and I may take it down as it isn't that... informative.

SK

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've made a calendar as I need a visual.
I can always re do it and add what I have missed if needed.
I find it odd that PK didn't call A to wish her a Merry Christmas, or did he?
I have been searching articles to no avail.
Also, to no avail I cannot locate where LV states A came over on the 26th Dec.??

This calendar looks lonely and I may take it down as it isn't that... informative.

SK

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

There it is, LV stating.

 

[SideKick]

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

There it is, LV stating.

.... and says it so casually....


Vanstone said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."

Thanks FGermany

 

[MsSherlock]

I've made a calendar as I need a visual.
I can always re do it and add what I have missed if needed.
I find it odd that PK didn't call A to wish her a Merry Christmas, or did he?
I have been searching articles to no avail.
Also, to no avail I cannot locate where LV states A came over on the 26th Dec.??

This calendar looks lonely and I may take it down as it isn't that... informative.

SK

SideKick-I love the calendar!

V. said she last saw AG Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."

V. said she was told by police investigators that AG had sent an e-mail to a friend on the night of Dec. 27.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

 

[Woodland]

And now I'm quoting your post. :yes:
I think, AG liked to be among people and friends and liked also to be alone to perform her hobbies. And with the Camaro - no way, a recluse would buy and drive like she did! Also MOO
There must be a reason, why LV had called AG "recluse" ... but which? Perhaps in the last 3 years AG would spent her free time without LV? But in this case I fortiori don't understand the Will. Therefore:?????????????????

I think this is a very good description of AG FromGermany.

 

[Woodland]

Woodland, I don't think those 2 lived in the same neighborhood or even close. LV lived south of Colborne St and the witnesses lived north of the 403 close to the Brantford G&C club. I wonder who the mysterious friend is that lived in LV's neighborhood?IMO it's interesting that LV would mention this in her MSM interview-must have left an impression, because IMHO there are many other nuances of AG that showed how private she was. MOO

I'm wondering if 'neighbourhood' was just the term used - as in this friend lived closer to LV than AG.

The article where LV states she did not know of a friend of AG is dated 4 January 2011 - so must have been quoted to the writer on or before 3 January. Not that it's earth shattering, but how did LV come to know this between 30 December (afternoon) and 3 January or 2 January? Why was it so important for LV to mention?

Until I know who it is, I leave the witness to the so called Will a possibility - unless she had already passed away.

 

[Woodland]

The neighbors Linda & Daryl also called her a recluse, "almost like a hermit". The clip of the news story is in the online book by one of her email friends linked above.

The first article I ever saw on this crime quoted the son of Linda & Daryl calling AG 'almost like a hermit.' I wondered why he would say that to the media and also say he only knew her to wave at etc.

Linda & Daryl said that as well? Maybe, but not so sure on that at the moment.

Is the son is quoting the 'party line' from LV - before LV - or is LV quoting the line from this neighbours son?

 

[Chorley8]

I'm wondering if 'neighbourhood' was just the term used - as in this friend lived closer to LV than AG.

The article where LV states she did not know of a friend of AG is dated 4 January 2011 - so must have been quoted to the writer on or before 3 January. Not that it's earth shattering, but how did LV come to know this between 30 December (afternoon) and 3 January or 2 January? Why was it so important for LV to mention?

Until I know who it is, I leave the witness to the so called Will a possibility - unless she had already passed away.

I agree seems she needed to get that out there for some reason not for sake of media but other eyes. And when you look at who was living across the street from the witnesses on Pippin - someone with connections to P.K. and the two AKs - bizarre.

 

[Chorley8]

SideKick-I love the calendar!

V. said she last saw AG Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."

V. said she was told by police investigators that AG had sent an e-mail to a friend on the night of Dec. 27.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

I see no reason to believe this given everything else.

 

[MsSherlock]

I agree seems she needed to get that out there for some reason not for sake of media but other eyes. And when you look at who was living across the street from the witnesses on Pippin - someone with connections to P.K. and the two AKs - bizarre.

Chorley-there are 3 houses right across the street but I don't see any connection. Can you elaborate a bit? 6 degrees of separation? How eery :scared:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm wondering if 'neighbourhood' was just the term used - as in this friend lived closer to LV than AG.

The article where LV states she did not know of a friend of AG is dated 4 January 2011 - so must have been quoted to the writer on or before 3 January. Not that it's earth shattering, but how did LV come to know this between 30 December (afternoon) and 3 January or 2 January? Why was it so important for LV to mention?

Until I know who it is, I leave the witness to the so called Will a possibility - unless she had already passed away.

I wonder if I'm able to follow the several "neighbours" and "friends" and addresses (may be NOT). :blushing:
I had imagined, one of the unknown friends of AG is one of the witnesses. LE said at 4. January "an executor has been found", therefore LV at the latest had seen the Will and got knowledge of the witnesses names, then mentioned it during interview.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I have always found the word "recluse" to describe AG as being odd. IIRC, the F son said it and also a man (aged 50-60???) said it in an interview on TV right when LE were searching the scene.

Anyone who drives a hot sports car, see friends for coffee weekly, visits another friend once weekly, attends the Library, chats with PK, e-mails various people is certainly not a recluse!

I've been wondering all along if the F son and the man who was on TV really understand the meaning of the word.

OR, were these people trying to paint AG in a different light? But if so......why?

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And about "young and close" I'm taking that to be true in all three cases (AG, SV and SL).

For me, young = male between the ages of 15 - 29 and close = a male who is fully acquainted with the areas of the crimes, knows his way to and from the crimes, had opportunity to commit the crimes, left the crime scenes to an area reasonably 'close' (ie. not Vancouver/Halifax/Montreal).

He's still quite young and he's still right here within our reach (unless he's incarcerated somewhere). Even if he's incarcerated, he's still "close" in that he's a Canadian citizen from Southern Ontario.

:twocents: