CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

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  • #881
Audrey was killed in the garage, the dogs were in the home. Whether they were created or loose does not matter, there was a door between them. Sometimes dogs you think will protect you really won't. I had an aggressive shepard mix dog that ran off and hid when a trespassing hunter with a gun ran into us in my woods, I was totally shocked.

I don't believe we know for sure where AG was killed, I think it's safe to say we know she was FOUND in the garage. Also, what I was getting at more than where she was actually killed, is what happened before and after she was murdered, and I think whether the dogs were loose or not is relevant in that context.

If the dogs weren't specifically crated or locked in a room, and IF items were missing from the home...who was able to enter the home and take them, and not be attacked by the dogs? If the dogs were obviously confined then LE would know why the dogs didn't attack the attacker - because they couldn't. Why would they say they don't know?
 
  • #882
Maybe the mailbox "vandalism" was actually mail theft ?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...s-now-using-keys-says-surrey-victim-1.2525701

"A Surrey, B.C., woman says the thieves targeting her super mailbox are getting so sophisticated they now appear to have copies of the keys, enabling them to steal mail whenever they please.

The issue is bound to raise concerns for millions of Canadian living in urban areas who will soon have their home delivery replaced with super mailboxes.

Christine Larsen said she is furious about the lack of security of her super mailbox.

"We've been broken into five or six times," Larsen said.

The first few times a crowbar was used to get inside the community mailbox, but then she says, "They seemed to get hold of the actual key."

Now, Larsen said they can come and go as they please".
 
  • #883
I don't believe we know for sure where AG was killed, I think it's safe to say we know she was FOUND in the garage. Also, what I was getting at more than where she was actually killed, is what happened before and after she was murdered, and I think whether the dogs were loose or not is relevant in that context.

If the dogs weren't specifically crated or locked in a room, and IF items were missing from the home...who was able to enter the home and take them, and not be attacked by the dogs? If the dogs were obviously confined then LE would know why the dogs didn't attack the attacker - because they couldn't. Why would they say they don't know?


1 - If the crime scene was staged, could the missing items have been a cover for something placed at the scene? There is an MSM report that some items initially missing were recovered in a ground search.

2 - Hrab answered he didn't know why AG's dogs did not attack her attacker -
did Hrab mean he didn't know why the dogs were crated? In the same conversation, Hrab mentioned knowing about a homeless man nearby, so seemed focused on that rather than why things were the way they were at the crime scene.

Jmo.
 
  • #884
Were the dogs locked in the kennel inside where she kept them, or loose in the house?

“The dogs were confined away from the area where AG was found. Although it wasn't especially unlikely for AG to confine them away from this area during the day, I can’t imagine her in this area in the middle of the night. Hopefully that isn't uselessly cryptic?”

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6990415&postcount=211

AG was found in the garage - so the dogs were confined away from the garage? So loose within the house but shut out of the garage?
 
  • #885
The middle of the night?
 
  • #886
So 'hug a puppy' was a common part of AG's 'signature' for her e-mails but she made no provision in her Will for her puppies?

I've a headache, and secondary nausea over that realization.

Here is what Audrey provided for her dogs...



Lynne handled all the arrangements. She could not fulfil Audrey's request to bury her ashes in the pet cemetery beside two of her previous German shepherds — that is illegal in Ontario. Friends said the ashes were sprinkled on the golf course in Brantford instead.

Her beloved dogs, Togi and Schatze, were reportedly assessed by animal control to see if they had suffered trauma during the murder, with the intention of putting them up for adoption. Audrey had already purchased two plots for the dogs for when they died.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/


My mistake about the murder scene. I just thought it was in the garage, but we don't know for sure.
 
  • #887
This new info (new to me, at least) about AG's e-mail signature of "Hug a Puppy" is providing more food for thought.

Did the two Amazing Grace e-mails contain that signature?
Was AG's computer set to automatically add the sig?
If it was set to 'automatic', then the killer could have just ripped off the two vids and sent them to PK and F mom without knowing the sig was there.
Did all of the many e-mails sent to PK contain this sig?

Thanks to those who helped with where AG was killed - we just don't know where.

QUESTION:
Why do we think a trophy was taken from the body? Did Hrab say so? Or were there just so many rumours after the murder that we've come to believe that to be so?

Thanks for any/all answers......

We do know that there was no forced entry and to me, that's quite significant. :twocents:
 
  • #888
I don't believe we know for sure where AG was killed, I think it's safe to say we know she was FOUND in the garage. Also, what I was getting at more than where she was actually killed, is what happened before and after she was murdered, and I think whether the dogs were loose or not is relevant in that context.

If the dogs weren't specifically crated or locked in a room, and IF items were missing from the home...who was able to enter the home and take them, and not be attacked by the dogs? If the dogs were obviously confined then LE would know why the dogs didn't attack the attacker - because they couldn't. Why would they say they don't know?


Missing items from inside the home, if that happened, does say a lot as far as someone being inside the home.
 
  • #889
I agree NSU - the 'Hug a Puppy' info is great to know.

So if AG sent an e-mail to cancel meeting with her coffee group, did this e-mail have the 'Hug' signature? Would an e-mail to this person normally contain the 'Hug' in the signature?
 
  • #890
Observations:

1. If indeed things were missing from inside the house, it seems as though the house had not been ransacked by someone looking for these things. Hrab said nothing about a ransacking of the house. Hence, the person knew exactly where to look in order to take the missing things.

2. There was no forced entry, so either Audrey let her killer in or the killer knew how to get in.

3. If the "Hug a Puppy" was in the Andre Rieu vids, the killer possibly knew that Audrey always used that as a sig. (I'm still convinced the killer sent the vids; still convinced AG was held inside with the killer from 27th December on; still convinced AG knew/was friends with her killer).

:twocents:
 
  • #891
Any chance Audrey was buying or selling computers?
Maybe someone thought she had quite a few of them in her home.

Imo, Audrey would rather die fighting someone off, than let either of her dear dogs be harmed in any way.fwiw..


http://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-ma...g-to-buy-computer-through-online-ad-1.1675131
bbm.
"Published Friday, February 7, 2014 10:04AM EST

HAMILTON, Ont. -- Police say a man who tried to buy a computer through an online ad was violently attacked in an attempted robbery when he went to Hamilton to pick up the item.

It's alleged the 25-year-old Toronto man travelled to Hamilton on Thursday to meet the intended seller but instead was met by two male suspects who insisted they get into a vehicle to go to the seller's home.

Once in the vehicle, police say the victim was assaulted as the suspects demanded money from him.

It's alleged one of the suspects pulled out a knife and stabbed the man, while the other hit him with an expandable baton"

Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-ma...ter-through-online-ad-1.1675131#ixzz2sfJuO5fE
 
  • #892
Here is what Audrey provided for her dogs...
<rsbm>

Don't know if you've read Audrey's LWT colette, but there were NO provisions made for her dogs in the Will. A Will is what legally binds an executor to carry out the wishes that are of utmost importance to the testator. It is possible there was a Memorandum to her Will that was not referenced in the Will itself, in which case the executor is not legally bound by what is set out in the Memorandum.

Not only was there no reference to her fur babies whom she loved dearly, [modsnip]

I find it odd that, as a dog lover, Audrey would not have been very specific in her LWT with regard to the dogs so that her executor would be bound by her wishes and there would be no question as to their disposition; I also find it odd that she didn't even specify any wishes wrt her own après-death arrangements.
 
  • #893
Thanks Sillybilly, I just meant Audrey provided burial plots for her dogs and had already bought them. I'm she thought she would outlive her dogs.
 
  • #894
Missing items from inside the home, if that happened, does say a lot as far as someone being inside the home.

I'm convinced that items were taken from the home, and by that I mean, inside the house.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/12/31/16719181.html

Police are saying that items are missing from Gleave’s home; they just aren’t revealing what those items are right now.

http://www.chch.com/one-less-suspect-in-gleave-murder-mystery/

There were items missing from Audrey’s house, but it has not been revealed what they are, Some of the items were found during the ground searches, detectives do not know for sure they are related to the homicide.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182067-a-complicated-vicious-killing/

There are items missing from Audrey's house, he says. What they are, he won't say. Valuables? Trophies? Some items have been found during the ground searches. He again won't say what they are and adds detectives do not know for sure they relate to the homicide.

http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/2182067-a-complicated-vicious-killing/
 
  • #895
When I read through/listen to the MSM reports it strikes me that most of the people who knew AG well, and knew/had been around her dogs, questioned why the dogs had not been able to protect her. Based on statements made by her friends, I think AG's dogs would have protected her if they perceived a threat and thought they had to. So imo, either they weren't there, they knew, and were "ok" with the person who is the attacker, they were crated/barricaded/locked up/shut in or out somehow, or they were incapacitated in some way.

Did the killer ambush AG? If so, and the dogs were somehow restrained from defending her, they would have been barking up a storm, freaking out. It would have been very loud, and I don't think they would have stopped. Who would stick around with all that going on, and commit a brutal murder and steal items from the house, practically in the middle of nowhere, in a silent rural community where every noise carries, still having to get away from the "insert location of murder here", across the property in whatever direction and/or maybe into a vehicle, and away from the scene (and likely covered in blood and leaving a trail the whole way and reportedly tossing items from the house as they go). All with two large German Shepherds barking and freaking out.

I don't think that incapacitating the dogs would be an easy feat either. If the attacker is a stranger, how do they get close enough to two large protective dogs to feed them something laced with sedative? Maybe lure them when they're outside, to an area near the edge of the property with a tasty morsel, or leave something irresistible laying around outdoors. That's if it was a planned attack. The killer would have to know when the dogs might come out, how long they would be outside and how long before the drug would take effect, etc etc... seems a bit unlikely to me. The killer would have to have things pretty under control because everything would fall apart if the dogs suddenly dropped from the meds and AG called the vet, or the dogs detected him on the property, or they didn't eat the treat.

If the killer is someone known to AG, incapacitating the dogs would be MUCH easier. If it was someone known to AG and they were there to visit, maybe have a coffee and a donut or something, it would be much easier to slip the dogs a little something and carry out the horrific attack.

Now the killer would have the time to murder AG, steal items from her home, and send emails from her computer, all without the dogs alerting the whole town that something awful is happening.
 
  • #896
I don't think that incapacitating the dogs would be an easy feat either. If the attacker is a stranger, how do they get close enough to two large protective dogs to feed them something laced with sedative? Maybe lure them when they're outside, to an area near the edge of the property with a tasty morsel, or leave something irresistible laying around outdoors ...

If the killer is someone known to AG, incapacitating the dogs would be MUCH easier. If it was someone known to AG and they were there to visit, maybe have a coffee and a donut or something, it would be much easier to slip the dogs a little something and carry out the horrific attack.
<rsbm>

I really doubt the laced food trick, especially with well fed dogs. Always amazes me how my shepherds can detect and spit a tiny pill buried in anything. Even being their trusted owner, I might fool them up close once or twice by popping it quickly into an upturned mouth, but after that, or give them the opportunity of checking it out, they find it, mouth it, ditch it, give it a look of utter disgust ... then maybe eat the good stuff. I end up having to jam it down the throat and hold the mouth closed until it's swallowed. I doubt any stranger or friend of Audrey's would have had the courage to try that, LOL.
 
  • #897
Read this quickly Paragirl - thread #3, page 14, post #333 - [modsnip: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7327918&postcount=333]

Just to put all info on the table, I did a transcript of the video interview with PK with his wife at the funeral, posted 2 pages back starting at the 42 second mark up to the point of ... choking/coughing or whatever it was.

... PK - we made it and we were gonna drop by on Christmas day with it, but Audrey had been a little under the weather, so ahhh, you know she said I'm feeling a little weak today, but ahhh, you know why don't you drop by next Thursday morning and then um, choke etc etc.

PK goes on to say Alex, his wife, had to work on Thursday so he went alone.

So PK seems to be saying he was planning to visit Audrey on the 25th up until the point he called her.

For comparison purposes only, I read PK's last post on WS - thread #2, page 24, post #582 (sorry dotr I gave you the wrong post # in private message) in response to a previous question from dotr - I had originally planned to visit Audrey on Christmas Day but she had e-mailed me a day or 2 prior to call it off ...

It's not necessarily a big deal, but PK knew before Christmas he wasn't going to visit AG on the 25th, and it was on the 25th, according to PK, that the new visit was scheduled.

At the time the video was shot, PK must have already told LE exactly what had transpired for his scheduled visit(s). I just don't get why he seemed to be worried at the time the video was shot that he forgot to mention the 25th visit was cancelled.

Is this the discrepancy?



The actual transcript from page 12 (2 pages back as posted) is gone. Are we onto something here? I'm liking this thread.

Yes, the discrepancy is about the cake IN MY OWN OPINION. Also, IN MY OWN OPINION, this entire case will be solved if LE dig deeper into the delivery of the cake. The timing, the illness, the changed dates, the phone calls, the size of the cake (slice or full cake........).

I've a crumb in my throat and secondary heartburn. Hug a puppy.

:twocents:
 
  • #898
Didn't Bernardo/Homolka use a chloroform type drug, poured onto a cloth, to incapacitate Homolka's sister? The drug had been taken from a vet's office.

This method was well publicized.
 
  • #899
Didn't Bernardo/Homolka use a chloroform type drug, poured onto a cloth, to incapacitate Homolka's sister? The drug had been taken from a vet's office.

This method was well publicized.

Yes. Homolka worked in a vet's place. Can you and I just go out and buy chloroform at a pharmacy? If so, is it logged somehow (like when we have to ask the pharmacist for Tylenols with Codeine?).
 
  • #900
One would likely steal chloroform if one did not have a license to use it.

Could one steal something similar from an Equestrian center?
 
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