CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

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  • #921
http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/06/mourners-united-in-grief-for-slain-retired-teacher


Kinsman said he had baked a cake for Gleave, using one of her favourite recipes, and was delivering it to her house on Dec. 30 as a Christmas gift when he made the horrifying discovery of her brutalized body.

I wonder if the cake was mentioned to LV. In my imagination, AG originally planned to take the cake to LV's with her when she went there either on Christmas day or Boxing day. As a kind contribution for being welcomed into LV's home over the holidays for dinner etc. So I wonder if she made apologies to LV for not having the cake to bring when she visited on Boxing Day? Did LV know about the cake? Was the rescheduling of the cake delivery etc discussed when AG arrived sans cake, and feeling under the weather?
 
  • #922
Well, LV has given her version of events in MSM. At no time did LV say AG was coming over to her place on Christmas Day or Christmas Eve. Just ask 'Suzy' about that.

If one was able to catch one of PK's versions of events, AG was ill before Christmas and advised PK before Christmas she did not want company or a cake delivery on Christmas Day, hence the cake delivery on Thursday, 30 Dec 2010.

Later, PK did not find out until Christmas Day that AG was under the weather, hence again no cake delivery until Thursday, 30 Dec 2010.

So arriving at LV's on Boxing Day, sans cake, seems to be the intended MSM version of events, and the version in thread 2 by the handyman.

What people knew and when they knew it is always a big deal in politics. Just sayin'.
 
  • #923
I'm not a subscriber either. They limit you to 6 free articles per month. The work-around is to clear your cookies and restart your browser after every 6 articles. This resets the count ;)


Am so going to try that.
 
  • #924
Well, LV has given her version of events in MSM. At no time did LV say AG was coming over to her place on Christmas Day or Christmas Eve. Just ask 'Suzy' about that.

If one was able to catch one of PK's versions of events, AG was ill before Christmas and advised PK before Christmas she did not want company or a cake delivery on Christmas Day, hence the cake delivery on Thursday, 30 Dec 2010.

Later, PK did not find out until Christmas Day that AG was under the weather, hence again no cake delivery until Thursday, 30 Dec 2010.

So arriving at LV's on Boxing Day, sans cake, seems to be the intended MSM version of events, and the version in thread 2 by the handyman.

What people knew and when they knew it is always a big deal in politics. Just sayin'.

Just wondering what kind of discussion there was regarding the cake delivery visit with LV, if any at all.

So AG emails PK 2 days prior to the original intended delivery date of Dec 25/10 to reschedule, and THEN speaks to him ON Dec 25/10, again telling him she is sick/weak/under the weather and discussing the rescheduling of the cake delivery, and then sends him ANOTHER email 2 days later re a "report" on her health? In the Dec 27 email AG makes a point of stating that she will attend coffee group on Dec 29 'come hell or high water', but no mention at all about the cake delivery visit. If AG didn't send that email then perhaps whoever did, didn't yet know about the cake delivery plan...

Then again, LV did deliver soup the morning of Dec 27, and based on MSM reports, it sounds like this has been confirmed, and that LV laid eyes on AG...so could someone else have been at AG's and sent that email shortly AFTER LV had come by with the soup? Could the date/time stamp be changed on the email? So many little details that would make such a difference. Such as - what time exactly did LV bring the soup by?
 
  • #925
Did not detect a 'and then' speaks to him on Dec 25/10 with an 'again' telling him ...
Looks to me like 2 different versions at 2 different times, with a choke/cough the second time on video.

I realize the video may not be working now, but see some recent posts with a partial transcript of the video. MSM origin.
 
  • #926
Just wondering what kind of discussion there was regarding the cake delivery visit with LV, if any at all.

So AG emails PK 2 days prior to the original intended delivery date of Dec 25/10 to reschedule, and THEN speaks to him ON Dec 25/10, again telling him she is sick/weak/under the weather and discussing the rescheduling of the cake delivery, and then sends him ANOTHER email 2 days later re a "report" on her health? In the Dec 27 email AG makes a point of stating that she will attend coffee group on Dec 29 'come hell or high water', but no mention at all about the cake delivery visit. If AG didn't send that email then perhaps whoever did, didn't yet know about the cake delivery plan...

Then again, LV did deliver soup the morning of Dec 27, and based on MSM reports, it sounds like this has been confirmed, and that LV laid eyes on AG...so could someone else have been at AG's and sent that email shortly AFTER LV had come by with the soup? Could the date/time stamp be changed on the email? So many little details that would make such a difference. Such as - what time exactly did LV bring the soup by?

BBM - 2 days prior had to come from somewhere.
 
  • #927
  • #928
Then again, LV did deliver soup the morning of Dec 27, and based on MSM reports, it sounds like this has been confirmed, and that LV laid eyes on AG...so could someone else have been at AG's and sent that email shortly AFTER LV had come by with the soup? Could the date/time stamp be changed on the email? So many little details that would make such a difference. Such as - what time exactly did LV bring the soup by?


BBM - I definitely agree LV laid eyes in AG that day.

Timing is everything - the e-mail apparently says, LV will be here shortly with soup - paraphrasing.
 
  • #929
Was away today, so catching up here and lots to digest and consider, but for now ...

I mentioned before that it was strange that the Dec 27 early morning emails didn't "report"/confirm the cake delivery for Thursday. She was adamant about going to the Weds coffee group ... why not adamant that "we're still on for Thursday"?; then a switch later in the day where she emails the coffee group member to cancel Wednesday, but doesn't ever email PK to cancel Thursday.

WRT the possibility of an inhalant type of anesthetic, even in veterinary practice, inhalants would be administered with a special vaporizer unit and a cone appropriate to an animal's snout. I just can't see anyone, stranger or otherwise, trying to control a large breed dog with a cloth over its snout long enough to anesthetize it .. without having some serious, visible physical signs of such a confrontation. In Audrey's case, that person would have to have been dealing with 2 large dogs.

Now here's a weird thought ... the vitamins !! Did someone switch the dogs' vitamins on Audrey and she didn't notice?
 
  • #930
Could the date/time stamp be changed on the email? So many little details that would make such a difference. Such as - what time exactly did LV bring the soup by?
<rsbm>

Can't find it now, but yes I've read the date/time stamp can be changed. Also, if someone had remote access to AG's computer, an email could be sent to appear to be from her.

I wonder if Audrey had a webmail account with her ISP ... I can be anywhere and send email from my webmail account that will appear with my usual email addy. If someone knew my id and password, they could send email from anywhere in my name. If someone in my home wanted to know my id and password, they could install a keylogger that would provide them that information.

PS: If someone hacked Audrey's webmail though .. I'm sure they couldn't change the date/time stamp as that would be set by the ISP, not by the hacker's computer. IMO, they could have sent an email from her webmail account and then deleted it from her "Sent Items" box so that she would not even notice that one was sent.

PPS: Just checked, and Audrey's ISP has webmail accounts:

http://website.informer.com/webmail.golden.net
 
  • #931
<rsbm>

Can't find it now, but yes I've read the date/time stamp can be changed. Also, if someone had remote access to AG's computer, an email could be sent to appear to be from her.

I wonder if Audrey had a webmail account with her ISP ... I can be anywhere and send email from my webmail account that will appear with my usual email addy. If someone knew my id and password, they could send email from anywhere in my name. If someone in my home wanted to know my id and password, they could install a keylogger that would provide them that information.

Looks like golden.net is provided by Execulink, when I google golden.net I get:

https://www.execulink.ca/myexeculink/login

Webmail:

https://webmail.execulink.ca/
 
  • #932
Now here's a weird thought ... the vitamins !! Did someone switch the dogs' vitamins on Audrey and she didn't notice?

rsbm

This IS an interesting thought. I also think it's telling that LE took blood/hair samples from the dogs. I don't think it was foreign DNA on the dogs that they were collecting.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2259959-if-audrey-gleave-s-dogs-could-speak-/

Togi and Schatze have played a role in the investigation. Detectives took DNA samples from the dogs — blood and hair — but it is unclear why.

imo LE would want blood/hair samples from the dogs, either to test the dogs’ DNA against evidence found somewhere outside the home or on the suspect/suspect's clothing, or to test the dogs' blood/hair for chemical substances. I wonder how long after the murder those samples were taken.
 
  • #933
I agree SB. It doesn't seem like a very likely/sound plan. As you say, no guarantee the dogs would take it etc. Being a Shepherd owner, what's your opinion on how the killer dealt with the dogs? I think that how the dogs were handled is important, as they would have been a serious factor for the killer to consider. I have a hard time with the idea that they were in some way drugged or sedated, but I can't see how else they would have been neutralized without obvious injury.

Chloroform can be made at home, and the directions to do so can be found on the web. Austin Sigg did it. I'm not sure what ingredients are needed (and I don't want to google it) but Sigg was able to obtain the ingredients at 17 years old.

I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m not much help Paragirl. I think it depends on the disposition, background, training of the individual dog. Had one shepherd I took in; she was not people friendly (unless she knew you well). It was a job keeping her in line around strangers. A new lady with some questionable friends moved into a rental house next door to me (big hedge in between us). Late one night I let the dog out for a minute, just when the lady had 2 guys arrive for a visit. My dog was barking furiously at the hedge, and then silence !! I took her inside and went back out to apologize that my dog may have frightened them, and then asked the one guy why she stopped barking at them. He smirked and said &#8220;I have a secret way of dealing with them&#8221;. I asked what it was but he wasn&#8217;t telling, and to this day I don&#8217;t know what he may have done.

I have one big male who is a silly goose &#8230; big loveable galute. You wouldn&#8217;t think he was a guard dog at all. One day I was downstairs and a woman who works for me and knew the dogs well made the mistake of coming in the front door without knocking. She said there was no doubt he was in full guard mode with his hackles raised and she stopped in her tracks. In my experience, it depends on the individual dog and the circumstances at any given time. Sorry, truly wish I knew exactly how Audrey&#8217;s dogs were. I&#8217;ve heard of dogs who will let a burglar in but won&#8217;t let them out. (One old shepherd l had would punch people in the butt when they tried to leave &#8230; kinda like &#8220;hey, I&#8217;m not done with you yet&#8221;.)

The folks who adopted Audrey&#8217;s dogs said that Togi became agitated at having to go into his cage, so either he wasn&#8217;t used to being caged, OR his angst was from being caged and not being able to help Audrey. We haven&#8217;t heard from anyone who knew Audrey, whether a visitor in her home or just outside, who made specific reference to her dogs ever being caged. If anything, we heard of people being uncomfortable around the dogs, so that tells me the dogs were not usually caged but were loose and therefore somewhat intimidating to visitors. I doubt Audrey would live alone in a somewhat remote location, have fears for her personal safety, but put the dogs into cages when she went to bed. I have crates for my dogs, but they are only in case of emergency vet visits when they might need to be contained (i.e. you don&#8217;t want a dog with a snout full of porcupine quills or a bad case of the scoots flailing around in your vehicle when you are rushing to the vet&#8217;s office).

Re the chloroform &#8230; Casey A was researching online how to make it, and iirc, it wasn&#8217;t difficult at all.

Sorry for personal ramblings &#8230; I should not be left alone in this room late at night
 
  • #934
Looks like golden.net is provided by Execulink ...
<rsbm>

Seems to be the case now, but in one of my old post (must be in a missing thread??) it seemed independent and definitely had a Hamilton addy which does not seem to be the case with EL. I'm thinking maybe the golden ISP has been taken over entirely by EL.
 
  • #935
  • #936
http://www.itbusiness.ca/news/myapo...rastructure-to-take-on-facebook-dropbox/42221

...................................
&#8220;It&#8217;s hard to believe some kids are going to take on Facebook,&#8221; he says. &#8220;We reached out to a number of different companies and you wouldn&#8217;t believe the number of people that turned away our phone call&#8230; I think when people realized we were trying to start the next social network, that&#8217;s something they shied away from.&#8221; .....................................


AG's e-mail to PK:

.........................
And would you believe ....................


(thread #7, post 987, Woodland)

Sorry, this mode of expression falls on me!!
 
  • #937

Doesn't the entire (well almost) "story" come from PK? He told Jon Wells the whole thing; he told LE everything; he told us everything; he said it looked like AG 'slipped on a patch of ice'; he said the crime scene 'wasn't too gruesome' (paraphrasing); and he told us all about the cake. He told us all about AG's very personal self - ie there was no prescription debris in any room in her house including the bedroom.

[modsnip]. :twocents:
 
  • #938
I’m afraid I’m not much help Paragirl. I think it depends on the disposition, background, training of the individual dog. Had one shepherd I took in; she was not people friendly (unless she knew you well). It was a job keeping her in line around strangers. A new lady with some questionable friends moved into a rental house next door to me (big hedge in between us). Late one night I let the dog out for a minute, just when the lady had 2 guys arrive for a visit. My dog was barking furiously at the hedge, and then silence !! I took her inside and went back out to apologize that my dog may have frightened them, and then asked the one guy why she stopped barking at them. He smirked and said “I have a secret way of dealing with them”. I asked what it was but he wasn’t telling, and to this day I don’t know what he may have done.

I have one big male who is a silly goose … big loveable galute. You wouldn’t think he was a guard dog at all. One day I was downstairs and a woman who works for me and knew the dogs well made the mistake of coming in the front door without knocking. She said there was no doubt he was in full guard mode with his hackles raised and she stopped in her tracks. In my experience, it depends on the individual dog and the circumstances at any given time. Sorry, truly wish I knew exactly how Audrey’s dogs were. I’ve heard of dogs who will let a burglar in but won’t let them out. (One old shepherd l had would punch people in the butt when they tried to leave … kinda like “hey, I’m not done with you yet”.)

The folks who adopted Audrey’s dogs said that Togi became agitated at having to go into his cage, so either he wasn’t used to being caged, OR his angst was from being caged and not being able to help Audrey. We haven’t heard from anyone who knew Audrey, whether a visitor in her home or just outside, who made specific reference to her dogs ever being caged. If anything, we heard of people being uncomfortable around the dogs, so that tells me the dogs were not usually caged but were loose and therefore somewhat intimidating to visitors. I doubt Audrey would live alone in a somewhat remote location, have fears for her personal safety, but put the dogs into cages when she went to bed. I have crates for my dogs, but they are only in case of emergency vet visits when they might need to be contained (i.e. you don’t want a dog with a snout full of porcupine quills or a bad case of the scoots flailing around in your vehicle when you are rushing to the vet’s office).

Re the chloroform … Casey A was researching online how to make it, and iirc, it wasn’t difficult at all.

Sorry for personal ramblings … I should not be left alone in this room late at night

Thank you SB for taking the time to tell these stories and add some insight. I think colette posted earlier, that she too had a shepherd cross that didn't necessarily behave the way she might have "expected" under certain circumstances. It's helpful to know. While it may not make things any more clear wrt AG's two dogs, but it does show that nothing can really be ruled out for sure, because it's hard to say what they might have done since we don't have any really solid info about what type of behaviours they had. Maybe they did bark and bark, maybe they stopped after a while. I have a dog myself but he is certainly not any type of guard dog, and I suspect he would want to play with an intruder, or lick them to death (I've often wondered what he would really do if someone tried to break into our home, or hurt one of us - when my boys play fight he usually tries to hump the leg of the "aggressor" - yep, he's really scary!).

I agree re crating the dogs at night - or really most of the time - wrt AG's dogs. It's been said that she mentioned to a neighbour that she was fearful of going outside w/o her dogs, and her ex-BIL stated that she expressed a fear of being raped and murdered in her home. A single, elderly woman, living in a rural area, with two German Shepherds with a fear and recognition of the possible dangers. Don't see why she would cage up her beloved companions and protectors at any time of the day or night. EXCEPT if someone she invited to her home and trusted, was afraid of dogs, or was so disliked by the dogs, that they were a terrible nuisance when that person was there.
 
  • #939
<rsbm>

Seems to be the case now, but in one of my old post (must be in a missing thread??) it seemed independent and definitely had a Hamilton addy which does not seem to be the case with EL. I'm thinking maybe the golden ISP has been taken over entirely by EL.

Yes, I did also find a Golden Net comments forum, an some of the posts talked about the service before the buy out vs the service after. It definitely was bought by Execulink at some point but I couldn't be bothered to read through all the posts to try and pin down a timeline on that. Although I guess it could be relevant wrt whether or not webmail was available before Execulink took over.

PS I apologize for bringing up so many ideas/theories that seem to have already been discussed. I have read through the previous threads (most of them), but there are a LOT of them, lots to remember! Hopefully something new will come out of it.
 
  • #940
Again, I know possible motives have been discussed extensively. Along with the 1-5 potential attacker scenarios, I was brainstorming possible motives based on the very few details we have, and just some wild guessing, and searching of my own. Just to build on, and open discussion again on this:

1. Psychotic/psychopathic need &#8211; just a random sick killer who is compelled to murder and happened to prey on AG as a crime of opportunity, or planned out attack/stalking.

2. Anger, resentment, rage, insult &#8211; someone close to AG who had depended on her, expected something, tried so hard to please her and live up to her expectations, and wasn&#8217;t as appreciated as they had thought all that time. Someone intellectually insulted/demeaned by AG, either mis-perceived/inadvertently, or deliberately.

3. Greed, money, property, belongings &#8211; someone who knew about something AG had that was accessible and wanted to access it. Or, perhaps someone who had received some financial assistance/support from AG, and couldn&#8217;t/didn&#8217;t want to have to pay it back. Maybe start-up money for a new personal/business venture of some sort. Perhaps a dispute over that had even caused a rift in a relationship and she had been avoiding that person due to disappointment in them. Maybe they were visiting AG to try to smooth things over and it didn&#8217;t go as planned and AG ended up murdered and they had to take/get rid of evidence within the home that might link them to this. Or perhaps they went to visit AG on the pretense of smoothing things over and in fact planned to get rid of AG and get the evidence from the house.

4. Intellectual property/Ownership/Recognition &#8211; AG was very knowledgeable about computers/IT/Web design etc. Perhaps she assisted in the development of some new business idea and wanted credit/ownership in it and that wasn&#8217;t well-received. As above, perhaps a dispute/rift/avoiding etc. They visit and murder AG&#8230;&#8195;
 
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