CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[Raymond]

Audrey Gleave was my physics teacher in 1991, and a wonderful lady.

I hope this case can be solved for Ms Gleave, her family, and our community.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

NY Times:

Researchers at CERN have spotted a particle that could provide insight into how quarks interact.

I thought of Audrey again ....

 

[dotr]

Is there any evidence of Keyes having been in Canada around the time of AG's murder (or ever, for that matter)?

Keyes visited and/ or passed through Canada on a number of occasions, especially while in New York. He had commented that he had killed in Canada, but said those murders " didn't count "
Not terribly likely that he murdered Audrey as the dates may not match up, but then anything is possible, imo, speculation.
rbbm.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/a...istance-in-case-of-serial-killer-israel-keyes

Investigators believe Keyes did not know any of his victims prior to their abductions. He described several remote locations that he frequented to look for victims—parks, campgrounds, trailheads, cemeteries, boating areas, etc. Keyes also admitted to frequenting prostitutes during his travels, and it is unknown at this time if he met any of his victims in this manner. Keyes indicated the victims are male and female and range in age from late teens to the elderly

Keyes traveled the Alaska-Canadian Highway, making known stops in Cache Creek, British Columbia; Watson Lake, Yukon; Destruction Bay, Yukon; and Teslin, Yukon. Keyes crossed the border into Alaska on March 9, 2007

.

Keyes traveled internationally and it is unknown if he committed any homicides while outside of the United States. In addition to the specific dates below, it is important to note that while living in New York, Keyes was in close proximity to the border with Canada and may have crossed into Canada on multiple occasions. He reported several trips to Montreal in which he sought out prostitutes. In addition, on his way to Alaska in 2007, Keyes drove alone through Canada

 

[Snoopster]

QUOTE=Raymond;13355857]Audrey Gleave was my physics teacher in 1991, and a wonderful lady.

I hope this case can be solved for Ms Gleave, her family, and our community.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for posting here Raymond! My apologies for a belated welcome!!

:greetings:[

Most of us never knew Ms Gleave in life, but we care about finding justice for her in death. It seems like she was a really interesting woman.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I want to know if I had the opportunity:

Why did Audrey's inheritor (best friend, brought a pot with soup) move to another place as fast as she could?
Why is there still not a Christmas yeast cake (Stollen) in the offer of *handyman's catering business (*best friend, the only visitor allowed inside Audrey's home)?
Why did the wedding photographer and fellow student at McMaster never complete his online book and told "the world" that the first man charged with A.'s murder was released and seemingly hadn't done it?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Rhetorical question (yesterday written but as always with WS the computer overheated and died midway :gaah:

If I would to have start my annual After-Christmas-journey at 27th December, would I have the opportunity

to drive to Ancaster/Lynden,
have an "evil dispute" with acquaintance Audrey,
drive back to my home town,
grab my suitcase and my wife,
drive to the airport to get my flight
to the port where the booked cruise ship is at anchor
and start travelling to the Caribbean,
having a wonderful alibi
when I return back from journey a week later?

 

[deugirtni]

Why no reward offer for info in AG's case?

 

[deugirtni]

It seems that even without the Stollen on the menu, the business has won a business community award. P looks quite different now.
https://www.firstontariocu.com/Personal/InOurCommunity/1Awards/

 

[deugirtni]

I don't mean to seem judgmental, however I do find it interesting that one who would pursue the substantial expense, years of life/time, and hard work to obtain a Master's degree, (with further plans to the point of enrolling in a PhD Engineering program), could be happy and content to play second fiddle in a foodie business. Not a menial job, by any means, and always interesting to co-own a business, for sure, but I might expect such a motivated person of obviously high intelligence who seems to value higher education, to at least want to invest in becoming a certified chef in their own right, perhaps making it seem somewhat *more* of a partnership, and less likely to potentially appear as perhaps having less say under someone else? Jmo.

 

[colette]

I don't mean to seem judgmental, however I do find it interesting that one who would pursue the substantial expense, years of life/time, and hard work to obtain a Master's degree, (with further plans to the point of enrolling in a PhD Engineering program), could be happy and content to play second fiddle in a foodie business. Not a menial job, by any means, and always interesting to co-own a business, for sure, but I might expect such a motivated person of obviously high intelligence who seems to value higher education, to at least want to invest in becoming a certified chef in their own right, perhaps making it seem somewhat *more* of a partnership, and less likely to potentially appear as perhaps having less say under someone else? Jmo.

Maybe the direction in life changed, maybe a new baby changed it. I know someone who studied for years to get her nurse practioner's degree but then after she got it she retired as a nurse and never worked a day as a practioner.

 

[deugirtni]

Maybe the direction in life changed, maybe a new baby changed it. I know someone who studied for years to get her nurse practioner's degree but then after she got it she retired as a nurse and never worked a day as a practioner.

For sure a change in direction can happen, whether perm or temp.. if it were me however, I'd want to be right up there, alongside, rather than unmentioned and underneath. Only the one is really mentioned to any extent, the one has the name in the email, etc., the one is mentioned on other platforms.. and even in the awards photograph, one is holding the infant, leaving the other open to accept an award. For me, it lends a flavor of, whether by personal choice or other, allowing one's own career interests to become background to someone else's, and perhaps even, or also, to childrearing. And then I think about what was published insofaras a potential 'profile' of AG's perp being angry, and perhaps living with a 'female authority figure', and it makes me wonder what certain persons' background might include, and whether it lends itself to being used to taking a backseat, etc.. just mind-wandering things, and jmo.. and could be totally off base.

 

[deugirtni]

Does anyone know whether AG's was the only vehicle which was taken in for forensic examination in this case? I have been looking back at older news articles, but I haven't come across anything yet about any vehicle being examined other than the one inside the garage.

 

[deugirtni]

My apologies if I might bore anyone.. but.. this case, as a handful of others, really bugs me.. and I am revisiting it as it has once again sparked my interest. (Thanks dotr ;/) I've been going back.. interesting to read from the beginning..

Just some points that I wasn't aware of, or which have occurred to me as I'm revisiting.. and not sure if they have already been discussed in great detail at some point!

-AG's veterinarian was given emeritus status by the College of Veterinarians Ontario in January 2011; he died in July 2012. IF he was the last to see her alive, I guess there is one witness down, since he likely would have been called as a witness? I hope no more are lost before this case ever gets solved and goes to trial.
http://www.lifenews.ca/announcement/1868380-collins-g-dudley

-the pet cemetery where AG's prior dogs had been buried, and where she had wanted her ashes to be buried - was transferred to Collins' sons (I believe in 2011), and was put up for sale (sometime in, or before, July 2015, with an apparent asking price of $325K); it seems it was purchased for $170K (reported in March 2016, not sure when exactly it sold) by 3 young men who already owned a pet crematorium in Guelph who saw it as an opportunity to expand upon their offerings. I also saw a listing for a 'geocache' located at the pet cemetery, which looks to have been hidden there in 2011.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm still confused about the dates/times when AG visited DC, and also the last time that AG was seen alive.

In one of the articles in the series by Jon Wells, it says AG visited DC to pick up vitamins for her dogs on the afternoon of Monday, December 27th, however that is odd (to me), since she was feeling under the weather, but he reported that she had hugged him on her way out, as she normally would.

I would have suspected that since AG was ill, she wouldn't have wanted to get too close to her other (presumably also elderly?) friends.

AG had also emailed her handyman friend that same morning, to say she would make it to her Wed coffee club, 'come hell or high water'. Her friend LV had brought her soup, knowing she had been feeling unwell while at her home for dinner the day before.

On the police website, it states that AG was last seen alive on the morning of that day, Monday, December 27th, when she was visited by a friend. The morning would be prior to the afternoon, when she was said to have gone to pick up vitamins in person from DC.

"Monday afternoon she loaded Togi and Schatze into the Camaro and visited veterinarian Dudley Collins in Ancaster to pick up vitamins for the German shepherds. She let the dogs run on his property as usual. She gave him a hug when she left, as she often did."
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/

"Gleave was last seen alive on the morning of Monday 27th December 2010 when she was visited by a friend."
https://hamiltonpolice.on.ca/audrey-gleave-homicide

 

[deugirtni]

I'm not sure where information in the timeline on WS came from to say that a member of the coffee group received an email from AG on that same Monday, to say that she would NOT be attending on the Wednesday.

Why would she already know on the Monday, that she would not be well enough to attend on the Wednesday, and especially when obviously on that very same morning, she had told someone else that she WOULD be attending, come hell or high water? That made it sound like she really wanted to attend, and if she really wanted to attend, wouldn't she wait until Wednesday morning, or even Tuesday night at the earliest, to make the decision as to whether she was too sick to go or not?

What time was that email sent? Did she email all of the members of the coffee group or just one? Along the way, I must have missed that piece of info regarding the date/time of that email. Does anyone know where that info came from? The newspaper article I quote below does not specify which date/time that email was sent/received. TIA!

"Dec 27 2010 A member of Audrey's coffee group, EM, a science teacher at Westdale, says Audrey emailed someone in the group that she would not be attending the coffee get-together scheduled for Wednesday, Dec 29"
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...***-NO-DISCUSSION-***&p=12020678#post12020678

"Gleave had e-mailed someone in their group to say she was not feeling well and wouldn’t make it to Wednesday’s coffee meet-up, he said."
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182849-police-investigating-ancaster-area-homicide/

ETA: hopefully police checked AG's bank account, and/or asked the vet for a copy of the receipt, and/or found the envelope/container of canine-vitamins with a dispensing date on it, so they would know for sure which date/time AG visited him?

 

[deugirtni]

I was wondering why police suspect that she died on the same day - Monday December 27th, as opposed to the Tuesday night/Wednesday morning when the neighbour's dogs were barking at 2:30am.

Does anyone know the date when police first said they believe she died on that same date? The story I'm quoting below was not published until 2015.

Did police come to believe this after receiving the autopsy results, perhaps?

I wonder what they found when they checked AG's computer stats and internet provider reports as to when her last computer and internet activity was. Could lack of any activity on both of those be why they believe Monday was when she was killed?

"Police believe she was killed that same afternoon or early evening."
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

 

[deugirtni]

The morning of Monday Dec 27th was the last communication that one of AG’s friends had with her, according to him.

At that time, she sent him an email describing in quite a bit of detail, her ailments, and also her insistence that she would attend her weekly coffee group two days later, no matter what.

Then three days later, PK goes to the house with her favorite cake, made especially for her.

Since the two obviously communicated via email, and email is so fast and easy, wouldn't it have made sense to contact her ahead of time to make sure that, (especially during the Christmas season when AG may have other friends who would get together with her), one, she felt well enough to receive a visitor, and two, that she didn't have another visitor, or/and plans to go out?

I understand that he may have wanted to surprise her, and logistically it made sense for him to ‘kill two birds with one stone’ by dropping it off after taking his wife to work, but wouldn't the cake be surprise enough? And presumably, he might have been picking his wife up later on in the day, or dropping her again the following day, so the killing of two birds with one stone at that time would have simply been convenient, rather than mandatory.

Would one presume that she would have no other plans? Was that how their visits historically occurred, or were they normally mutually agreed upon times that were convenient for *both* parties?

 

[Canadian4]

I'm still here. Unfortunately I don't have anything that could help.

 

[deugirtni]

I asked earlier if it is known whether any other vehicles, besides AG's, were forensically examined. In one of the MSM articles, it quotes PK saying police had asked for imprints from his relatives' shoes when they interviewed them. He also stated that he drove home after finding AG's brutalized body, and ate the cake, along with his wife.

I suppose if a vehicle was to be taken in, it would make sense to do it as soon as possible for obvious reasons. And since PK is mentioning other points, but not that his vehicle was taken in, I wonder if it even was? I hope it was. For both AG's sake *and* for his sake, because doing so would have presumably ruled him out, wouldn't it have? I guess maybe not, as it's a possibility the perp wasn't driving though. <doh> And if the cake was eaten after getting home, does that mean police didn't confirm that it existed? Wouldn't that be due diligence in checking out a statement? (How can someone have a stomach to eat *anything* after witnessing such a horrific sight?)

"Kinsman says police interviewed members of his immediate family and asked to take imprints from shoes belonging to family members, as though testing to see if he wore someone else's footwear on Gleave's property. "
....

"He says police focused on apparent inconsistencies in his recollection of events, but the shock of seeing his friend's body, and the passage of time, blurred many details for him.

At one point, he said he had carried the cake for Gleave into the garage where he discovered the body, but later said he had left the domed-lid Tupperware in his car the whole time. He's now convinced he must have left the cake in the car.

After he was interviewed by police at the scene of the homicide he drove home and along with Alex ate the cake — a "Texas stollen" cinnamon and raisin coffee ring cake.

The couple would like to put a similar dish on their café menu at Saving Thyme and name it after Audrey."
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

 

[dotr]

It may take time, but this recent news about the cold case murder of Velma Thomson, previously mentioned iirc. on Audrey's thread, gives renewed hope.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...rder-committed-in-ontario-by-15-year-old.html
Sept 5 2017

[h=1]Adult sentence upheld in grisly 1983 murder committed in Ontario by 15-year-old[/h]Christopher Ellacott was handed an adult life sentence for raping and killing his 70-year-old neighbour in 1983, a crime that went unpunished for nearly 30 years.


By Colin Perkel

A middle-aged man who lived an ordinary life for decades after raping and killing his frail 70-year-old neighbour deserved the adult life sentence handed him when he was finally brought to justice for the grisly crime he committed as a 15-year-old, Ontario&#8217;s highest court ruled Tuesday.

In upholding the sentence, the Court of Appeal found the punishment given Christopher Ellacott reasonable and proportionate given the savage killing.

&#8220;He sexually assaulted and murdered his elderly, vulnerable neighbour. He went on as though nothing had happened, avoiding justice for nearly 30 years,&#8221; the Appeal Court said. &#8220;There is no explanation for his crime; no sense of what motivated him to have committed so heinous an act.&#8221;
Court records show Ellacott, a high school student, occasionally did household chores for Velma Thomson, of Petrolia in southwestern Ontario, who had suffered a stroke. In mid-October 1983, the 90-pound hairdresser was found at home, partly nude and lying in a pool of blood. An autopsy found several stab wounds to her heart and her jugular vein cut. She had likely been raped and sodomized, according to the records.

The case went cold for years until a random check at a fingerprinting convention allowed police to link a thumbprint from the crime scene to Ellacott. Police then secretly obtained DNA samples from him. They arrested Ellacott in 2008 in Owen Sound, Ont., and charged the working father of two, who had no convictions, with Thomson&#8217;s first-degree murder and rape.