CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Where is patchtimes now? Just left the site?

 

[deugirtni]

OK, I just read all of the posts by patchtimes. So the house is occupied by the kids of Audrey’s neighbours. To me, that also is odd.

I wonder if the hoarding had something to do with the killing. What did AG hoard?

And why am I now suspicious of the family living there? Did someone want that land so badly that it was worth killing?

Why doesn’t PKs assessment of the body link up with how the body really was? Did PK know these present day owners? He must have known their parents.

All good questions.

No idea what happened to patchtimes.. can only guess.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Someone earlier mentioned that perhaps AG was in a relationship, a different type of relationship. I’ve been suspecting all along that perhaps LV and AG were special to each other. If so, how or why would that put AGs life in danger? It makes no sense.

The hoarding is also important I think. What did AG hoard? Was PK asked about it? Did LE look into it fully? Did LV know about it? LV must have known because AG always had Christmas at LVs house.

How are the soup and the cake important? Does LV know the new owners of the house? Did she know them prior to the murder?

No answers.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

IMO The clue in this case has always been why the dogs were in the house and not in the garage with her. It seems they would be with her even when with a trusted friend like PK.

Was the garage her meeting place for visitors was one of them afraid of her puppies? (did she receive someone into her garage and that person is afraid of dogs so the dogs are put inside?)

What other reasons did AG use her garage, her car, did she store things here? If someone was there and got into her garage to steal the car and she caught them if I were her I would bring my puppies? I think she opened the garage, or she gave others a code (or they bypassed the box somehow) Still she would hear it opening and check it out, again I would bring my puppies with me to look.

Nothing I read LE nor PK said the garage door had any damage when he arrived, so it was opened and closed for/by the perp to go in and out. Otherwise, they were in her home which very few people say happened, even if you are close to her. The only other plausible conclusion is if they came ready to distract the dogs and get her cornered in the garage. If the time of death is Wed and found Friday why did no one hear the dogs - I know rural but I live rurally you always hear the dogs, miles away. Could the perp have drugged the dogs with food, they could have eaten and then slept off anything noticeable before she was found? Dogs unattended for 2 days would be very hungry and thirsty.

Edit to add: did PK ever say the dogs were barking when he arrived and opened the door?

If a stranger came to the door - 1. without driving up the driveway, the dogs would be barking like crazy, 2. car driving up the driveway again dogs bark - how could AG not know someone was around her perimeter.

So complex, unwell (cold/flu?) 26th, last heard from 27th via emails in the evening, it would be pitch black dark by 5pm at this time of year. I am sure LE has looked at all calls too and from, all emails, texts and have not shared that she was expecting someone that night or next morning and looked at a homeless person so I do not think that exists.

What forensics cleared the initially arrested suspect?

I have not read much that she ever ventured out to walk the dogs, I assume not as I read in one of the condolences below that she had really bad knees.

Some of the posts here (and what I can recall from a now-defunct site "unsolvedcanada" posts) many speak of how private she was, she was cold and not overly friendly and they took that as reclusive and alone but to read the condolences online about her, many seemed to know her well, her students referred to her as Mama, reflected how caring she was and that she was "one of those special teachers"

Condolences for Audrey Gleave | Beckett-Glaves

Another thought is that she left her home the evening of 27th to get something for her illness, someone laid in wait beside the garage for her to return (dogs barking mistaken for the excitement she is home) or they followed her home and then got in the garage before she could release the dogs?

 

[deugirtni]

LE believe she died on Monday, the 27th, the same day her good friend LV brought the soup. She was found on Thursday the 30th by PK.

I recall LE did testing of the dogs, so it is possible they were testing for poisoning?: "Togi and Schatze have played a role in the investigation. Detectives took DNA samples from the dogs — blood and hair — but it is unclear why." -https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2259959-if-audrey-gleave-s-dogs-could-speak-/

In this article, it states the dogs were barking when emergency personnel arrived: “Gleave's two German Shepherds, who were barking furiously inside the house when emergency responders arrived at the garage where her body was found, were adopted by a family. The female, Schatze, is doing well, but the big male, Togi, died a year after Gleave.” -http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/ - I don't recall PK saying anything about hearing the dogs going nuts when he arrived at the property on the 30th.. and if he didn't say anything about that, why not??

It seems odd to me that none of the neighbours were reported to have talked about how they heard dogs barking for 2.5 days?

A weird thing, to me:
@ dotr (#523)
- Some quick info about the scheduling of time to drop off the cake. I had originally planned to visit AG on Christmas day but she had emailed me a day or two prior to call it off because she was so sick. So, on Christmas day I called her to check in and that's when we set the definite time to get together around 10am on Thursday for me to drop it off.
CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

AG was SO sick two days BEFORE Christmas that on that day, Dec 23rd, she cancelled the get-together she was going to have with PK on Christmas day. Then he says he phoned her on the 25th, and they 'set the definite time' to get together for Thursday Dec 30th. One might expect that she may have been feeling somewhat better by the 25th, since she had accepted plans to attend and did attend LV's house for dinner on the 26th? But yet on the 25th, she was telling PK she was still sick, but that by hell or high water, she was going to attend her coffee meeting on the Wednesday (29th). If on Christmas day she was well enough to have NOT cancelled LV's dinner invitation for the 26th, then why would she even entertain the notion that she may not be well enough to attend her coffee group on the 29th? That conversation makes me wonder, imho, if AG was not interested in meeting with PK for some reason. What was the reason for such a delay in the rescheduled get-together of PK and herself? By the 30th, people are generally back to work, and the holidays are over for many people already. Did they even really have a confirmed rescheduled date to meet? From memory, it seemed like their Christmas plans had previously been made (and subsequently cancelled) via email, but THIS rescheduling was done by phone, so no way to confirm it, which seems odd, jmo.

When did PK and his wife make the cake? Christmas is a very busy time for many people, especially those who work, and perhaps even more especially for those who work in the food service industry, such as PK's wife, the chef who would presumably be the one to bake the cake since baking seems to be her specialty? When PK and AG's plans to get together on the 25th got cancelled on the 23rd, had the cake already been made? Or had PK and his wife left it to the last minute and been going to wait until Christmas eve day to make that cake? I'd like to know because if the cake was already made by the time plans got cancelled on the 23rd, and delivery of said cake wasn't to happen until the 30th, it seems like it may have been one really stale cake by then?

And then, the cake just happens to get devoured by PK and his wife when he returns home after witnessing his friend's murdered body.. no evidence of said cake. No evidence that PK and AG were to have their Christmas visit that day.

 

[whiterhino]

LE believe she died on Monday, the 27th, the same day her good friend LV brought the soup. She was found on Thursday the 30th by PK.

I recall LE did testing of the dogs, so it is possible they were testing for poisoning?: "Togi and Schatze have played a role in the investigation. Detectives took DNA samples from the dogs — blood and hair — but it is unclear why." -https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2259959-if-audrey-gleave-s-dogs-could-speak-/

In this article, it states the dogs were barking when emergency personnel arrived: “Gleave's two German Shepherds, who were barking furiously inside the house when emergency responders arrived at the garage where her body was found, were adopted by a family. The female, Schatze, is doing well, but the big male, Togi, died a year after Gleave.” -http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/ - I don't recall PK saying anything about hearing the dogs going nuts when he arrived at the property on the 30th.. and if he didn't say anything about that, why not??

It seems odd to me that none of the neighbours were reported to have talked about how they heard dogs barking for 2.5 days?

A weird thing, to me:
@ dotr (#523)
- Some quick info about the scheduling of time to drop off the cake. I had originally planned to visit AG on Christmas day but she had emailed me a day or two prior to call it off because she was so sick. So, on Christmas day I called her to check in and that's when we set the definite time to get together around 10am on Thursday for me to drop it off.
CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

AG was SO sick two days BEFORE Christmas that on that day, Dec 23rd, she cancelled the get-together she was going to have with PK on Christmas day. Then he says he phoned her on the 25th, and they 'set the definite time' to get together for Thursday Dec 30th. One might expect that she may have been feeling somewhat better by the 25th, since she had accepted plans to attend and did attend LV's house for dinner on the 26th? But yet on the 25th, she was telling PK she was still sick, but that by hell or high water, she was going to attend her coffee meeting on the Wednesday (29th). If on Christmas day she was well enough to have NOT cancelled LV's dinner invitation for the 26th, then why would she even entertain the notion that she may not be well enough to attend her coffee group on the 29th? That conversation makes me wonder, imho, if AG was not interested in meeting with PK for some reason. What was the reason for such a delay in the rescheduled get-together of PK and herself? By the 30th, people are generally back to work, and the holidays are over for many people already. Did they even really have a confirmed rescheduled date to meet? From memory, it seemed like their Christmas plans had previously been made (and subsequently cancelled) via email, but THIS rescheduling was done by phone, so no way to confirm it, which seems odd, jmo.

When did PK and his wife make the cake? Christmas is a very busy time for many people, especially those who work, and perhaps even more especially for those who work in the food service industry, such as PK's wife, the chef who would presumably be the one to bake the cake since baking seems to be her specialty? When PK and AG's plans to get together on the 25th got cancelled on the 23rd, had the cake already been made? Or had PK and his wife left it to the last minute and been going to wait until Christmas eve day to make that cake? I'd like to know because if the cake was already made by the time plans got cancelled on the 23rd, and delivery of said cake wasn't to happen until the 30th, it seems like it may have been one really stale cake by then?

And then, the cake just happens to get devoured by PK and his wife when he returns home after witnessing his friend's murdered body.. no evidence of said cake. No evidence that PK and AG were to have their Christmas visit that day.

A number of good points made! To your last point BBM: Wondered if I wasn't the only one thinking about how stale the cake would be! I posted whether or not LE searched for cake crumbs and I'm not even joking anymore

There had to be some proof whether or not the dogs were caged. After all that time, one would think the dogs would have panicked, torn up the house, gone to the bathroom, ripped open the cupboards, scratched the door etc.

Also, someone reported hearing the neighbours dog barking around 2 a.m at some point? Are these are the same neighbours who bought the home or are now living there? So the neighbours dog barks and others hear this but no one hears Audreys dogs barking at all?

Perhaps LE have reason to believe the killer was bitten by the dogs or the intruder injured the dogs in some way? Collecting DNA in order to compare against any persons of interest?

The thing with Audrey cancelling is that she did so on the 23rd. By the time of LVs dinner on the 26th, maybe Audrey was feeling better? (except the following day LV brings AG soup which is the day that LE believe AG was killed) Hmm...

Maybe AG said something at dinner that rubbed someone the wrong way? Perhaps someone knew PK was coming over on the 30th and used this information to "frame" PK to walk into the scene and cast suspicion?

Is it possible that Audrey was caught while getting her mail? Her mailbox had been damaged previously, possibly vandalism. Could explain being in her coat.

Another thing not discussed often, the murder weapon(s). What were they and where are they? That scene cannot have been tidy so where is all the evidence?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Couldn’t the cake have been left for AG in a convenient spot? Just in case AG felt a bit better and wanted a treat ? Why did PK need to see her in person to deliver the cake?

Did LV see AG in person to deliver the soup?

Food is often left at a door for a person who’s feeling unwell. I have never understood why PK had to wait to see AG in person for something like a cake. That has baffled me for many years.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

LE believe she died on Monday, the 27th, the same day her good friend LV brought the soup. She was found on Thursday the 30th by PK.

I recall LE did testing of the dogs, so it is possible they were testing for poisoning?: "Togi and Schatze have played a role in the investigation. Detectives took DNA samples from the dogs — blood and hair — but it is unclear why." -https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2259959-if-audrey-gleave-s-dogs-could-speak-/

In this article, it states the dogs were barking when emergency personnel arrived: “Gleave's two German Shepherds, who were barking furiously inside the house when emergency responders arrived at the garage where her body was found, were adopted by a family. The female, Schatze, is doing well, but the big male, Togi, died a year after Gleave.” -http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/ - I don't recall PK saying anything about hearing the dogs going nuts when he arrived at the property on the 30th.. and if he didn't say anything about that, why not??

It seems odd to me that none of the neighbours were reported to have talked about how they heard dogs barking for 2.5 days?

A weird thing, to me:
@ dotr (#523)
- Some quick info about the scheduling of time to drop off the cake. I had originally planned to visit AG on Christmas day but she had emailed me a day or two prior to call it off because she was so sick. So, on Christmas day I called her to check in and that's when we set the definite time to get together around 10am on Thursday for me to drop it off.
CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

AG was SO sick two days BEFORE Christmas that on that day, Dec 23rd, she cancelled the get-together she was going to have with PK on Christmas day. Then he says he phoned her on the 25th, and they 'set the definite time' to get together for Thursday Dec 30th. One might expect that she may have been feeling somewhat better by the 25th, since she had accepted plans to attend and did attend LV's house for dinner on the 26th? But yet on the 25th, she was telling PK she was still sick, but that by hell or high water, she was going to attend her coffee meeting on the Wednesday (29th). If on Christmas day she was well enough to have NOT cancelled LV's dinner invitation for the 26th, then why would she even entertain the notion that she may not be well enough to attend her coffee group on the 29th? That conversation makes me wonder, imho, if AG was not interested in meeting with PK for some reason. What was the reason for such a delay in the rescheduled get-together of PK and herself? By the 30th, people are generally back to work, and the holidays are over for many people already. Did they even really have a confirmed rescheduled date to meet? From memory, it seemed like their Christmas plans had previously been made (and subsequently cancelled) via email, but THIS rescheduling was done by phone, so no way to confirm it, which seems odd, jmo.

When did PK and his wife make the cake? Christmas is a very busy time for many people, especially those who work, and perhaps even more especially for those who work in the food service industry, such as PK's wife, the chef who would presumably be the one to bake the cake since baking seems to be her specialty? When PK and AG's plans to get together on the 25th got cancelled on the 23rd, had the cake already been made? Or had PK and his wife left it to the last minute and been going to wait until Christmas eve day to make that cake? I'd like to know because if the cake was already made by the time plans got cancelled on the 23rd, and delivery of said cake wasn't to happen until the 30th, it seems like it may have been one really stale cake by then?

And then, the cake just happens to get devoured by PK and his wife when he returns home after witnessing his friend's murdered body.. no evidence of said cake. No evidence that PK and AG were to have their Christmas visit that day.

thank you for the correction on days.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Couldn’t the cake have been left for AG in a convenient spot? Just in case AG felt a bit better and wanted a treat ? Why did PK need to see her in person to deliver the cake?

Did LV see AG in person to deliver the soup?

Food is often left at a door for a person who’s feeling unwell. I have never understood why PK had to wait to see AG in person for something like a cake. That has baffled me for many years.

I interpreted the cake to be her Christmas gift. The initial plan was to meet before Christmas, and as a professional baker by trade, making it for a dear friend to the young couple, I bet that cake was freshly made by his wife. They were friends, IMO she trusted PK because he could think as she did. Troubleshooting computer viruses, and reverse engineering them (she asked colleagues to send her known viruses so she could break them down, this is referred to as reverse engineering in the IT industry), not many IT security consultants today can do this, this was a hobby for her, I bet she was very thrifty and knew what she was doing on the internet.

I interpreted that LV saw her and handed her the soup, if she left it on the doorstep I think the discussion of it would be different, ie) what time was it left, was it still outside, was it warm or needed heating up.... etc. the reports were she "gave" it to her.

I missed reading if the soup had been eaten or not?

If her death happened the night of 27/28th was AG in the habit of greeting a visitor at that time of night? (2 am "someones" dog(s?) barking)

From some reading and the assumption she hoarded, I believe this is why she brought only a few people into her home. She was brilliant and highly intelligent and would not want to hear the opinions of others on that subject IMO.

 

[deugirtni]

Couldn’t the cake have been left for AG in a convenient spot? Just in case AG felt a bit better and wanted a treat ? Why did PK need to see her in person to deliver the cake?

Did LV see AG in person to deliver the soup?

Food is often left at a door for a person who’s feeling unwell. I have never understood why PK had to wait to see AG in person for something like a cake. That has baffled me for many years.

I think PK was seeking an intimate Christmas visit with his dear friend. I don't know why, but somehow I am getting from what's known about the communication between AG and PK in regard to that particular visit, that AG wasn't really interested in having that visit. Of course, could be wrong. But even so, if the cake was made on or prior to Dec 23 (which I suspect it would've been), it would have been simple enough to just drop it at the door, and then reschedule the actual in-person visit for a more mutually convenient time. I guess it's also possible that PK could've just simply put the cake in the freezer until it was just before delivery day - although that then would preclude AG from freezing part of it herself, if it had been too much for one person to eat before going stale.

 

[deugirtni]

I'm sorry this link doesn't work any more.. but I have the article pasted into a document on my hard drive. This article was also discussed in early WS threads at the link under the now-defunct newspaper link.

It seems that LV did indeed actually 'see' AG on the 27th when she brought her the soup:

Vanstone said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

 

[deugirtni]

I've got to say... that I seriously wouldn't want to be in the position of being:
i)the sole executor to my single friend's estate
ii)the sole beneficiary to my single friend's estate
iii)the last person known to have seen my murdered friend alive

I hope LE did proper 'clearing' of this individual, as opposed to just passing on by because she is i)female, ii)presumably older in age, iii)perhaps 'nice', etc.

I also wouldn't want to be in the position of being:
i)the person to have discovered the body of my murdered friend

Aren't all of these things the things that LE normally looks seriously at, when looking into murders?

 

[deugirtni]

Unfortunately the first link no longer works. The second link is unfortunately paywalled. There was likely discussion of the article in AG's thread way back.

"Lynne talked to reporters initially, but then she stopped. "

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

Who killed Audrey Gleave?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To help us remember ( me ) here’s a timeline.



On Wednesday, December 22 (2010) Audrey meets with her friends at Williams for coffee as per usual. Nothing has been noted out of the ordinary with that meeting.

Saturday, December 25, Audrey mentions that she is feeling under the weather. (I cannot recall specifically who she stated this to, but I believe it was PK.)

On Sunday, December 26 Audrey celebrates Christmas with her friend Lynn Vanstone at her place with family. Even though Audrey was private, she seemed to routinely attend Vanstone’s family events, which suggests she must have been comfortable with them.

Monday, December 27, Audrey e-mails Phil Kinsman in the morning with a link to a music video of “Amazing Grace” performed by Andre Rieu. She told him in the e-mail she would make her Wednesday morning meeting “come hell or high water”. Later in the day she visited Dudley Collins for vitamins for Tagi and Schatze. She spends some time talking with him and hugs him goodbye. That evening around 6 pm Audrey e-mailed the same music video to her neighbour Linda Ferguson. The police state this is conclusively the last time anyone would hear from Audrey.

Wednesday, December 29, at 2:30 am, the Fergusons state their chocolate brown lab begins barking violently and for a long period of time. They note this in particular because it is atypical behaviour for their dog and he seemed quite agitated. Later that day police arrest David Scott, a transient, on ground of breaching probation. He has been found with a knife in his waistband while using the bathroom at his bank.

Thursday, December 30, Phil calls Audrey’s phone and it isn’t answered. He had plans to meet with her that morning and drop off a “Texas Stoellen” cake his wife Alex had baked. He drops Alex off at her work and heads over to Audrey’s. When he keys in the code and walks into the garage as is the usual routine, he immediately sees Audrey on her back lying on the ground beside her Camaro. The following written description of finding Audrey’s body was written by Phil Kinsman on WebSleuth.

“I was really shocked as I started to get a sense of how gruesome LE perceived this crime to be. When I raised the door I saw Audrey lying on the floor and my eyes were immediately drawn to her face. I looked at the scene for only a fraction of a second before darting away. I saw hardened blood on the floor and that, along with the contortion of her body was what prompted me to call 911 and tell them she was dead. While I was on the phone with 911 the woman insisted that I go back and feel for a pulse. Even though I begged her not to make me and told her I was certain Audrey was dead, she didn't relent and I walked back. I bent over her to feel for a pulse (this was my only contact with her) and immediately left the scene again. Any details outside of her face were strictly seen in my periphery and are (thankfully) unclear in my mind. It didn't appear to me that her face was blue and as best I can remember, I believe she was wearing her sneakers but did not have her purse. I don't know exactly what DNA evidence LE collected… I know only that whatever they collected was distinct from myself and DS. Audrey did tell me when she gave me the code that I was the only person in the world to have it other than herself and she insisted that I not write it down anywhere and only commit it to memory. She gave it to me - she said - in case I ever needed to come while she was out and get tools out of the garage to work. I always found that a bit odd since I never, ever visited when she wasn't home but I never thought enough of it to ask her about it. I can't say with any certainty whether Audrey gave out her code to anyone (e.g. LV) after giving it to me but I can say that the code was not required to close the door and most of the time when Audrey was inside, the garage door would be closed”

The police taped off the area and began their investigation. Staff Sgt. Steve Hrab described the murder as “horrendous, vicious and savage”. “In the last ten years, I can’t think of one more vicious.” The publics become aware that the murder had a “sexual component”, although other than stating her pants were ripped, nothing else is revealed. Audrey’s cause of death is multiple stab wounds though it is never officially confirmed. Again, the police remained silent on most details of the murder, although somehow word gets out that she was beaten as well as stabbed multiple times. “There was a lot of blood,” is a statement from an officer. Initially in the investigation the police hypothesize that her murder was random and by a strange. Hrab is noted for his inclination to purse a prime suspect aggressively. Police state both dogs had been locked in the house, although they do not specify whether they were in their kennel/crate or in a room. There is no established time of her murder, although the window is narrowed to the 28th to 29th of December.

Police state vaguely that items belonging to Audrey are missing and some are found strewn outside, but they won’t state what and others contradict the police (I believe Lynn Vanstone) by stating they did not see any property or items missing. Robbery does not appear to be the motive.

Sunday, January 2, 2011 – Hamilton Police Services find a barn at 347 Lynden Road. The barn is approximately six kilometres from Audrey’s home on Indian Trail Road. The barn is searched, but nothing is disclosed to the public about what is found in the barn.

February 10, 2011 – David Scott served approximately 42 days in jail for breaching probation. He was released and was re-arrested at a laundromat in Brantford on February 10. He was charged with the first degree murder of Audrey Gleave.

March 6, 2011 – At his bail hearing via video conferencing, David Scott states, “There is something I’d like everyone to understand, I didn’t—“, before he is interrupted by his lawyer and court officials who tell him to be quiet before he can complete his sentence.

Friday, June 3, 2011 – assistant Crown Attorney Warren Milko dropped all charges against David Scott. The public now knows he is a diagnosed schizophrenic who lived on and off in the barn the police found on January 2. Milko states there is “no reasonable prospect of conviction”. Scott’s DNA does not match the forensic evidence law enforcement has. Scott is released to the public. His sister screams at the cameras of reporters when she is picking him up from Barton Street J

Link https://www.reddit.com/r/Unresolved.../unresolved_murder_who_killed_audrey_gleaves/

 

[whiterhino]

Are the Fergusons not the people who bought AGs' home? Were the Fergusons at LVs' dinner on the 26th?

According to the timeline, Audrey emails Linda Ferguson Monday 27th at 6 p.m. This is Audreys last known communication with anyone. Then, Wednesday 29th at 2:30 a.m the Fegusons dog is heard barking which isn't typical.

Not quite sure what to make of the way PK speaks of Audrey. IMHO (is it against TOS?) it's inappropriate to speculate whether or not PK and AG had some kind of "thing going on". It's clear that PK had a lot of thoughts, feelings, sentiments towards her

The garage door passcode "story" seems to me, a bit overly dramatic. Audrey giving PK the code and saying "You must commit it to memory alone" sounds like something from a Cold War film.

Not to mention LV was made executor of Audreys estate. Why would LV have all that power but not know her neighbours door code? Another somewhat morbid thought I'd had (forgive me): If LV really wanted to do something to AG, she had the chance at dinner and again with the soup. Just saying.

It feels like we've been overlooking something or someone.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

"Look young and look close" said LE. Are the Fergusons the ones who bought the house? That's news to me but remember, I've been out of the loop here for many years. If so, thanks for that.

The door code story seems really dramatic for me as well. And I doubt AG was an overly dramatic woman. Perhaps the overly dramatic fantasies of a young person?

We are overlooking something/someone. Where is the Ferguson's young son? I think he was questioned by LE but I could be wrong.

Was AGs murder in fact sexually motivated? Am I the only one who's confused about that? It seems to be YES on the one hand and NO on another. Can anyone help?

Was AG in a sexual relationship with anyone at the time of her murder? If so, has that person been questioned?

 

[whiterhino]

"Look young and look close" said LE. Are the Fergusons the ones who bought the house? That's news to me but remember, I've been out of the loop here for many years. If so, thanks for that.

The door code story seems really dramatic for me as well. And I doubt AG was an overly dramatic woman. Perhaps the overly dramatic fantasies of a young person?

We are overlooking something/someone. Where is the Ferguson's young son? I think he was questioned by LE but I could be wrong.

Was AGs murder in fact sexually motivated? Am I the only one who's confused about that? It seems to be YES on the one hand and NO on another. Can anyone help?

Was AG in a sexual relationship with anyone at the time of her murder? If so, has that person been questioned?

How many other young people did Audrey have in her life?

Tbh, no idea why I thought the Fergusons have something to do with the purchase of AGs' home. For whatever reason, I'd thought someone within this circle (LV, her family, the Fegusons, their children or another neighbour) bought the home. Don't quote me though, I haven't bothered to search the thread.

ITA with both the pink and blue points. Not sure there is any valid reason for me to be suspicious of the Fergusons' son but I've wondered.

From what I understand, the scene was gruesome and there was a large amount of blood. Whoever did this must have had to clean themselves up. Whatever they were wearing, whatever weapons they used etc. It went somewhere. Gives me the creeps.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I was always been concerned about the Ferguson son. And one other. Both young and both close.

Did AG get killed by someone who had access to her home and had time to get cleaned up before the body was found?

How did PK hold the cake and not drop it from terror at the scene of his dead friend? Apparently he held it and even took it home to eat. Is this possible?

 

[deugirtni]

I was always been concerned about the Ferguson son. And one other. Both young and both close.

Did AG get killed by someone who had access to her home and had time to get cleaned up before the body was found?

How did PK hold the cake and not drop it from terror at the scene of his dead friend? Apparently he held it and even took it home to eat. Is this possible?

Maybe this realization (or questioning?) is what prompted PK to change his story to that he instead had left the cake inside his vehicle?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Yes but again, there’s no reason to leave the cake in the car if he didn’t know what he’d find. I think I’d take everything with me to the garage opener. Not run back to the car once I’d opened the garage.