CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[Gina20]

How many people knew that PK was coming over that day? Did his visit put a wrench in things with the killer hoping no one would discover Audrey? Or was this the perfect cover?

That's a good question. How many people did PK or his wife tell that he was going over on that day at that time? If they told others, only they would know. Who the others told would be out of their control.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

That's a good question. How many people did PK or his wife tell that he was going over on that day at that time?

And, who all did Audrey tell?

 

[Catmommy]

That's a good question. How many people did PK or his wife tell that he was going over on that day at that time? If they told others, only they would know. Who the others told would be out of their control.

My guess is ... none.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I looked up PIQUERISM because of Lee Mellor’s article:

What is Picaristic?


Paraphilic sexual arousal which hinges on the sadistic piercing and stabbing of another person, especially in the breast, buttocks and groin, which may cause enough bleeding to be fatal.

 

[Gina20]

This paper explains "lust murders", murderers and their victims. Only a small percentage of murders every year fit this definition, and Audrey's age is not typical for a victim. Almost all of these murders are committed by men, a significant proportion of whom are age 25 and under.

Research publications - Canada.ca

This page describes all the different types of research publications published by Correctional Services Canada.

www.csc-scc.gc.ca

 

[whiterhino]

That's a good question. How many people did PK or his wife tell that he was going over on that day at that time? If they told others, only they would know. Who the others told would be out of their control.

I was thinking more along the lines of people Audrey might have told.

Not sure who among PK or his wifes' friends would have motive to harm AG? Even then, they'd have to come up with a plan quickly as the visit was rescheduled.

@No_Stone_Unturned While I cannot find a link at this moment, I haven't found anything stating that these three womens cases are connected. Personally, I do not believe these three are related.

I'd say if any one of the women mentioned here were the victim of a "lust murder" it would be SV. JMO.

Whatever was done to Audrey I get the feeling it wasn't meant to be sexually gratifying for the perpetrator. More along the lines of humiliation and retaliation. JMO.

 

[Gina20]

I was thinking more along the lines of people Audrey might have told.

Not sure who among PK or his wifes' friends would have motive to harm AG? Even then, they'd have to come up with a plan quickly as the visit was rescheduled.

@No_Stone_Unturned While I cannot find a link at this moment, I haven't found anything stating that these three womens cases are connected. Personally, I do not believe these three are related.

I'd say if any one of the women mentioned here were the victim of a "lust murder" it would be SV. JMO.

Whatever was done to Audrey I get the feeling it wasn't meant to be sexually gratifying for the perpetrator. More along the lines of humiliation and retaliation. JMO.

The information reported was very confusing. From what we heard, it was either a very violent crime or nothing was obvious. How could it be both? Some of us wondered if the murder scene had been staged.

As it turns out, there is no clear legal definition of a "sexual murder". "Sexual component" hints at it.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This paper explains "lust murders", murderers and their victims. Only a small percentage of murders every year fit this definition, and Audrey's age is not typical for a victim. Almost all of these murders are committed by men, a significant proportion of whom are age 25 and under.

Research publications - Canada.ca

This page describes all the different types of research publications published by Correctional Services Canada.

www.csc-scc.gc.ca

Good article. Thanks. While I don’t think AG’s killing was out of lust per se, I think it could have been a source of sexual satisfaction for the killer. Someone whose thrill is harming and killing women of any age. And that would, IMHO, include getting sexual satisfaction from demeaning, humiliating and having control over the woman. If not, why take a trophy?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The motive for killing AG is bothering me so I looked up killing elderly women. The article is extensive:

Research Paper - Not the ‘golden years’: Femicide of older women in Canada

www.victimsfirst.gc.ca

 

[dotr]

.dbm

 

[Gina20]

Remember that song by Jan and Dean?

Jan & Dean - The Little Old Lady From Pasadena Lyrics | AZLyrics.com

Jan & Dean "The Little Old Lady From Pasadena": It's the little old lady from Pasadena The little old lady from Pasadena (Go granny, go granny, go...

www.azlyrics.com

Somehow, I could see this describing Audrey! Maybe it's because of a tribute left on her condolence page at the funeral home website. Did she leave the youngsters in the Brantford street racing scene eating dirt?

But seriously, getting back to that Ontario car theft ring...We know that people have been targeted because of the cars they drive. These are violent crimes. Vehicles are the object, but people are harmed in the commission of theft.

We have also seen thieves who went looking to kill someone with a vehicle, and passed on one who shared his military training. The person was the target. The vehicle was a means to an end -- the end of its owner. The vehicle was incidental.

Audrey was targeted, but we still don't know why or how.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

LE did take away the Camaro so have we had any word about what they found or did not find? The silence from LE in this case is making me really upset.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And speaking of stolen vehicles, I just came upon this one:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1553877981701054464

 

[Gina20]

LE did take away the Camaro so have we had any word about what they found or did not find? The silence from LE in this case is making me really upset.

Same silence in the case of Sonia Varaschin, whose vehicle was also impounded.

 

[whiterhino]

It's probably standard procedure to impound any vehicle at the scene of a murder.

Of course SVs' car was taken in, the killer used it to transport her body.

People can cast aspersions all day long but the truth is there. IMO it was a personal reason, someone was slighted and offended. I would like to know how many garage remotes were included in the kit Audrey had installed and if all remotes have been recovered.

If this were a vehicle theft, why not take the car after all that?

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that someone had help. There is cleanup to consider, getting away from the scene etc.

Speaking of racing and eating dust: Did Audreys car have nitrous?

 

[Catmommy]

From what we know, Audrey wasn't a meek, mild MeeMaw who was just sitting with her knitting. She was an intelligent, independent firebrand of a woman who tried to live her life strictly as she wanted. This could trigger some psychopath, especially if they'd had a verbal run-in for whatever reason. It could have been a complete stranger, but statistics show that we are much more likely to be murdered by someone we know. Just a guess from me but I think the "sexual aspect" could well have been a staging ploy to divert attention away from the killer.

 

[Gina20]

It's probably standard procedure to impound any vehicle at the scene of a murder.

Of course SVs' car was taken in, the killer used it to transport her body.

People can cast aspersions all day long but the truth is there. IMO it was a personal reason, someone was slighted and offended. I would like to know how many garage remotes were included in the kit Audrey had installed and if all remotes have been recovered.

If this were a vehicle theft, why not take the car after all that?

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that someone had help. There is cleanup to consider, getting away from the scene etc.

Speaking of racing and eating dust: Did Audreys car have nitrous?

We were trying (SV's thread) to figure out how long these vehicles are held and what happens to them after evidence is taken. Are they returned to the estate or destroyed?

 

[whiterhino]

We were trying (SV's thread) to figure out how long these vehicles are held and what happens to them after evidence is taken. Are they returned to the estate or destroyed?

I recall that "conversation" as well. Not sure if our questions were ever answered or if I bothered to find out in all honesty. It would be a good piece of info to have around here though!

I was just trying to make the distinction that AG and SV are very different regarding their vehicles due to the fact that Sonias car was used during her murder. I could have been less blunt, apologies!

Perhaps Audrey was prudish or chastised/shamed people for being "sexual" and someone was offended?

I've often wondered if Audrey didn't ruffle some feathers at the dinner and it led to something sinister. She strikes me as the kind who might say something... unpopular or outspoken. It could have sparked something within someone who decided to exact revenge.

When LE said "young and close", how young and how close? How many younger people was Audrey friendly with? Who did she know?

Or did LE mean close in proximity? Because there were neighbours who IIRC attended dinner at LVs house. Have we discussed these other "possibilities" iykwim?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

"Young and close" = there was the young son who lived across the street from Audrey. For ME, young = 17 - 29 while close means geographically. But that's only my humble opinion.

There have been murderers as young as 13 - 15 in Ontario.

 

[deugirtni]

"Young and close" = there was the young son who lived across the street from Audrey. For ME, young = 17 - 29 while close means geographically. But that's only my humble opinion.

There have been murderers as young as 13 - 15 in Ontario.

To me, 'close' means someone who is known to be part of AG's life.. close to the case, not necessarily in proximity. jmo.