Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[JDG]

I can totally refute this. I live in the neighbourhood and even used the same realtor Barry Cohen to sell my previous home and buy my current home. When I sold my previous place the first thing the agent did was schedule an open house.

Hi, not sure which part you're refuting. I believe the Shermans were using a lady realtor? The issue of the Open House was sorted after my post. Seems the Shermans had an Open House for friends and family a couple of weeks back. Maybe because they were going away or selling up?

I also live in a nearby neighbourhood and am very familiar with the area. Its lovely and we are lucky to be able to have such amenities.

 

[justchrissy47]

"Sarah Alvi lives with her family across the road from the Sherman home and has known the couple for four years. She said that she last saw them two weeks ago, when they had an open house – and could not imagine anything like this happening to a pair she described as the "best neighbours" and the pride of the neighbourhood."

I think Open House is being interpreted 2 ways. I took it to mean an Open House held by a realtor that the neighbors attended.

JMO

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

 

[Tortoise]

I think Barry murdering Honey and then staging it to mirror his own impending suicide isn't speaking to the psychology of him that I've been able to pick up.

Why would he think his family would accept her suicide any easier than her murder?

That to me speaks of someone who would care more about his own legacy than hers. He wouldn't kill but she would leave her children without a thought for them. I don't think he would prefer they have that hurt. I also don't think he did care that much about how others perceived his morality or his philosophy, looking at his personal writings. That arrangement of her body would speak to regret, and cowardliness, fear of being judged. I don't think he feared harsh judgement looking at his work ethics, his politics or his court battles. This wouldn't ease his conscience or make his children take her death any easier, so there is no gain for him, and he would have to know investigators wouldn't be able to determine she had been murdered to succeed with that plan and he couldn't be certain of that.

I believe they were murdered and he may even have been threatened with watching Honey be murdered in front of him to make him comply and even put himself into position to hang rather than let them do it.

 

[Jennifer17]

Does Canada have Coroners Inquests?

 

[Snoop Sister]

Does Canada have Coroners Inquests?

Yes, I believe so in questionable deaths. It may depend on the province.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Taking it from the police arriving at the death scene, they would have encountered two dead people and would have to determine if they are looking at:
1. A voluntary double suicide by hanging
2. A double murder staged to look like a double suicide
3. A murder/suicide staged to look like a double suicide by hanging

One of the early links in this thread led to a rather lengthy article written to teach medical examiners what to look for in ligature markings on the throat of a hanging victim. It said that in a suicide hanging the ligature marks appear on the neck above the hyoid bone - because the weight of the body or even just the weight of the head in a "partial" hanging pulls the ligature up high above the hyoid bone. (A partial hanging is when part of the body is touching the ground - which apparently was the case here.) With a strangulation by ligature the marks usually appear below the hyoid bone. It also went on to say that the internal tissue damage would be different between the two.

This could mean that just by the initial external examination of the ligature marks on their necks a determination could have been made that Honey did not die by being hung.

Very sad for the children and grandchildren left behind.

 

[Tighthead]

Coroners’ inquests usually involve significant public interest (not curiosity). Part of the purpose is to prevent future similar incidents. Workplace accidents, patients, and prisoners are examples of situations where the inquest can expose institutional or systemic failings.

 

[Peace777]

I don't think there will be another statement from the police until well after tomorrow's memorial service.

I'm hoping there will be police watching the mourners at the Sherman's funeral (if they(LE) think this might be a murder investigation) JMO

 

[Snoop Sister]

Coroners’ inquests usually involve significant public interest (not curiosity). Part of the purpose is to prevent future similar inhttps://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-214-x/2012001/int-eng.htmcidents. Workplace accidents, patients, and prisoners are examples of situations where the inquest can expose institutional or systemic failings.

In canada. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-214-x/2012001/int-eng.htm
The remaining deaths are unexplained natural deaths, where a physician doesn't know the cause of death, and deaths caused by injuries or drugs. The latter are subdivided into four main categories referred to as manners of death: accidents (or unintentional injuries), suicides, homicides, and undetermined deaths (where there is considerable doubt about what the correct manner of death is). These deaths must be reported to and investigated by a C/ME.

 

[Jennifer17]

Coroners’ inquests usually involve significant public interest (not curiosity). Part of the purpose is to prevent future similar incidents. Workplace accidents, patients, and prisoners are examples of situations where the inquest can expose institutional or systemic failings.

Yes. I am Australian and since we share a system of Government and many other institutional procedures, I thought that Coronial Inquests would be one of them. We also have them for cases just like this.

 

[dotr]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-of-barry-and-honey-sherman/article37400589/

Relatives seek their own investigation into deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman

As they prepare for a high-profile memorial service on Thursday, relatives of Barry and Honey Sherman want to pursue an investigation independent of the continuing police probe into the Toronto couple's mysterious deaths.

And one of the country's most prominent defence lawyers, Brian Greenspan, is lending his informal assistance to the family.

Nearly a week after the bodies of the billionaire and his wife were discovered in their North York house, the scene is still being worked on by investigators. Sources have told The Globe and Mail the family is seeking their own answers after previously urging police to conduct a thorough, intensive and objective criminal investigation.

Among those assisting the family as it grapples with the couple's shocking deaths is Mr. Greenspan, who has had a long career of controversial cases in the public eye or involving celebrities. Contacted on Wednesday, Mr. Greenspan would say little about the help he is offering, but said he had not been formally retained.

"I knew the Shermans, I knew Barry and Honey. And I am really simply serving as a resource person to the Sherman family," Mr. Greenspan said. "Barry and Honey were people that I knew and very much admired and respected."


He declined to get into details about what he said would be a "very limited role."

Demolition at the Forest Hill site began a few weeks ago but has been halted, leaving a barren site surrounded by a plywood-boarded fence in the posh neighbourhood.

 

[dotr]

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/city-gathers-to-bid-farewell-to-barry-and-honey-sherman

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne and Toronto Mayor John Tory are among dignitaries attending the service to celebrate the lives of the couple, along with what’s expected to be thousands of members of the city’s Jewish community, prominent business leaders and those in the volunteer and broader community.

A massive police and security presence is expected at the service in Mississauga.

Frank D’Angelo, a close friend and business associate of Barry Sherman said he has been “inconsolable” since hearing the news and has not been able to sleep.

“This man did nothing but good,” D’Angelo told the Toronto Sun. “(In) the last four days all I have thought about is him. I am going to have to deal with this emotional scar in my heart and my soul.”

He added: “Nothing in my life has ever affected me like this. I just can’t get my head around it.”

 

[matou]

Relatives seek their own investigation into deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman

As they prepare for a high-profile memorial service on Thursday, relatives of Barry and Honey Sherman want to pursue an investigation independent of the continuing police probe into the Toronto couple's mysterious deaths.


And one of the country's most prominent defence lawyers, Brian Greenspan, is lending his informal assistance to the family.


Nearly a week after the bodies of the billionaire and his wife were discovered in their North York house, the scene is still being worked on by investigators. Sources have told The Globe and Mail the family is seeking their own answers after previously urging police to conduct a thorough, intensive and objective criminal investigation.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-of-barry-and-honey-sherman/article37400589/

 

[sassyblue]

https://web.archive.org/web/2017121...D-Toronto-Ontario-M2L2K1-St-Andrew-Windfields

http://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

After looking at all the pictures of the house and the floor plan I believe the indoor pool room was a dead end room. It appears to have only the one entrance which is the wall that almost looks like a mirrored wall. So as you come around that corner to the last room of the entire house what would you see across the pool room at the hand rail looking back at you?

Pure macabre shock factor in staging their bodies there I think.

 

[Tighthead]

Coroners’ Inquests are mandated when there is questionable or suspicious manner of a death. Also there can be an inquest if additional or new information
Is obtained.

Source? An inquest is a lengthy public hearing. I can’t imagine every questionable death having one.

 

[Jennifer17]

In Canada, Coroners’ Inquests are mandated when there is questionable or suspicious manner of a death. Also there can be an inquest if additional or new information Is obtained. However, each province has their own guidelines regarding coroner inquests.

The same as ours. They sometimes finish with an open finding, but often, solve the mystery.

 

[dotr]

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/barry-and-honey-sherman-memorial-and-funeral-watch-live/

[h=1]Barry and Honey Sherman memorial and funeral: Watch live[/h] [h=2]The memorial for the couple, who died under mysterious circumstances last week, will begin on Thursday at 11 a.m.

[/h]
Maclean's

December 20, 2017

The memorial, which will take place at Toronto’s International Centre, is set to begin at 11 a.m. and will be carried live by CityNews. You can also watch a livestream of the event here.

Livestream begins on Thursday, Dec. 21 at 11 a.m. ET

 

[Tighthead]

In canada. https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-214-x/2012001/int-eng.htm
The remaining deaths are unexplained natural deaths, where a physician doesn't know the cause of death, and deaths caused by injuries or drugs. The latter are subdivided into four main categories referred to as manners of death: accidents (or unintentional injuries), suicides, homicides, and undetermined deaths (where there is considerable doubt about what the correct manner of death is). These deaths must be reported to and investigated by a C/ME.

An investigation is distinct from an inquest.

Also, since it is a matter of provincial law it is best to consult sites specific to the jurisdiction.

 

[Jennifer17]

Source? An inquest is a lengthy public hearing. I can’t imagine every questionable death having one.

I think we do, but some are not lengthy and only the result is announced if it is high profile, like missing children who are deemed to have been abducted and murdered and no arrest has been made or when there are suspicions that police have bungled an investigation. And mostly years after the event.

 

[Tighthead]

I think we do, but some are not lengthy and only the result is announced if it is high profile, like missing children who are deemed to have been abducted and murdered and no arrest has been made or when there are suspicions that police have bungled and investigation.

An inquest is a public hearing with a jury of five people.

I wpuld like to see the source as to when to when they are mandated “in Canada” as they fall under provincial legislation and authority.

An investigation and an inquest are different things.