CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[SUSAN ANN]

In my own mind I believe honey got away from the killer long enough to dial 911 and then was murdered and then the killer waited for Barry. In my mind I think the person at the door was a policeman and maybe the police don’t want to admit that for obvious reasons. I had an uncle that was a policeman and some suicides can look very peaceful I think it depends on that person’s very intimate state of mind. Maybe someday it will all be clear.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

Delete by me

 

[juli99]

Thanks Dotr. As I have speculated previously, I think IMO that this visitor was a police officer, and TPS will not admit it.

I'd never heard the theory of it being a police officer but that makes perfect sense. Who else would park on the road, Amazon delivery?

 

[SUSAN ANN]

Can someone tell me how to delete a duplicate post I made?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Can someone tell me how to delete a duplicate post I made?

We can’t. When that happens we usually put DBM or duplicate.

Off-topic @ldlager or anyone who may know, but I don’t think you can park on the side of the road at 50 Old Colony. Look at google maps— they’re parked on the other side, or on the sidewalk. Can anyone see parking signs? If there’s a no standing/parking sign then I’d say the Thursday person was an officer.

 

[branmuffin]

I meant if the killer was trying to stage it to appear Barry did that. Based on what has been reported, it’s impossible and he died between 9pm-12 midnight on Wednesday, long before the 911 call.

He was placed in that position after being killed according to Donovan, and it was not a peaceful death, imo.

When he says it wasn't a peaceful death does he mean because his death was not natural or there was evidence of violence on the body (other than ligature strangulation)?

 

[dotr]

Re post rbbm.
By Anne KingstonOctober 30, 2019
Who killed Barry and Honey Sherman? A new book offers fascinating insights. - Macleans.ca

''Q: The Toronto Star‘s lawyer told you to go out and “solve the case.” In the book you don’t name anyone but clearly have some theories about who did it.
A: There were so many ‘out-there’ theories—that the murders were the result of a bad business deal, or the Mossad or the Clinton Foundation was behind it. I’ve arrived at the thinking that it’s not any of these theories. It’s somebody Barry Sherman knew who didn’t want him alive anymore and didn’t want Honey alive anymore. Years ago, Barry Sherman said, “If someone wants to take me out they could just shoot me.” That’s true. He would leave his office every night and get into his car. He would be easy to kill. Why kill him in the home? Why kill him with his wife? Why in the pool room? Who would know the schedule? The fact those bodies lay there for 36 hours tells me someone knew they wouldn’t be found.

Q: You write it would have to be someone familiar with the house, that it was personal, not professional.
A: I’ve spoken to people over the years about different types of homicide. And strangulation, that’s a very close, intimate thing. That’s different than hiring a hit man.

Q: You also write that you don’t think the killer or killers were professionals. One reason is the use of belts—one was taken from an upstairs bedroom. Organized criminals don’t look for their murder weapons at the scene.
A: I’ve not seen crime scene photos. But I was told belts were used. Barry was wearing a belt that morning, one Honey bought him at Canadian Tire. The other belt was from their bedroom, or my supposition is that was where the other belt was. I don’t think a foreign object was brought into the house to do the killing. Why the pool? Because it’s out of the way, because the tile floor can be cleaned up easier.''

 

[JayFriend]

Q: You write it would have to be someone familiar with the house, that it was personal, not professional.
A: I’ve spoken to people over the years about different types of homicide. And strangulation, that’s a very close, intimate thing. That’s different than hiring a hit man.'

If a personal, not professional hit, it was so professionally done that TPS has still not solved it after all these years.

 

[ldlager]

We can’t. When that happens we usually put DBM or duplicate.

Off-topic @ldlager or anyone who may know, but I don’t think you can park on the side of the road at 50 Old Colony. Look at google maps— they’re parked on the other side, or on the sidewalk. Can anyone see parking signs? If there’s a no standing/parking sign then I’d say the Thursday person was an officer.

good point I will look on google maps. BTW, the cameras on the neighbours house across the street can be seen clearly on google maps streetview

 

[Lexiintoronto]

When he says it wasn't a peaceful death does he mean because his death was not natural or there was evidence of violence on the body (other than ligature strangulation)?

I’m my view it wasn’t peaceful, I don’t recall KD writing about about the topic other than the marks on BS’s wrists.

 

[deugirtni]

I might be mistaken, but don't police officers all drive the same vehicles in the same colour, etc., depending on their roles? If the vehicle seen on the neighbour's video was LE, wouldn't it have been fairly easy to identify at least that it was that type of vehicle, ie 'Chargers' or whatever, even though the plate couldn't be seen, the guy's face couldn't be seen, even though it was grainy, etc? When I was very young, I remember people I was with being able to identify potential police coming in the opposite direction based on the headlights.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’m my view it wasn’t peaceful, I don’t recall KD writing about about the topic other than the marks on BS’s wrists.

Death by strangulation, I don’t associate with peaceful either.

 

[deugirtni]

I know that some service provider occupations tell their staff not to park in their clients' driveways, as a matter of policy. Is it possible the 'mystery man' could've been a physiotherapist or some such thing? First visit perhaps? Just arranged the day before possibly (ie on the Wednesday)? If it was a police officer, would they have sent out TWO officers to check up on a potentially bogus 911 call - it seems that both the officer at the other neighbour's door and the mystery man parked out front of the Sherman residence were there at the same time, so that would mean two separate officers, possibly also two separate police vehicles? Would that make sense in Toronto? Would an officer checking out a potentially bogus 911 call have spent an hour outside in the winter, going back and forth between vehicle and house, knocking on the door, etc, or would he possibly presume the occupants weren't home and decide to try again later, perhaps in the evening? I'm thinking Toronto officers are swamped, and wouldn't spend that much time on a call like that.

I think 'after the fact', they did spend time investigating how 911 calls are identified if they arrive in different ways, ie say by using random wifi, or perhaps data on a burner phone, or using some kind of spoofing software, etc. etc. etc., because by then, that time spent would've been worth it to investigate 'suspicious deaths'. At that point however, if it was THAT important for police to speak to someone at that house, or perhaps every house on the street(?), to try to determine where a 911 call could've originated, they perhaps could've found other means to identify and reach the owners?

I'm thinking along the lines of personal service provider - although I'm wondering if H would've allowed a male to perform services if she was alone in the house? I'm thinking the guy stayed about an hour.. and if say his appointment was for a one-hour slot, he still could've billed for that wasted hour (assuming of course, the people in the house hadn't been murdered already, at which point he was obviously SOL, imo.) Who else would've spent that much time at a person's door? Obviously the occupant was either not home, or not wanting to answer the door to this person. But jmo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I know that some service provider occupations tell their staff not to park in their clients' driveways, as a matter of policy. Is it possible the 'mystery man' could've been a physiotherapist or some such thing? First visit perhaps? Just arranged the day before possibly (ie on the Wednesday)? If it was a police officer, would they have sent out TWO officers to check up on a potentially bogus 911 call - it seems that both the officer at the other neighbour's door and the mystery man parked out front of the Sherman residence were there at the same time, so that would mean two separate officers, possibly also two separate police vehicles? Would that make sense in Toronto? Would an officer checking out a potentially bogus 911 call have spent an hour outside in the winter, going back and forth between vehicle and house, knocking on the door, etc, or would he possibly presume the occupants weren't home and decide to try again later, perhaps in the evening? I'm thinking Toronto officers are swamped, and wouldn't spend that much time on a call like that.

I think 'after the fact', they did spend time investigating how 911 calls are identified if they arrive in different ways, ie say by using random wifi, or perhaps data on a burner phone, or using some kind of spoofing software, etc. etc. etc., because by then, that time spent would've been worth it to investigate 'suspicious deaths'. At that point however, if it was THAT important for police to speak to someone at that house, or perhaps every house on the street(?), to try to determine where a 911 call could've originated, they perhaps could've found other means to identify and reach the owners?

I'm thinking along the lines of personal service provider - although I'm wondering if H would've allowed a male to perform services if she was alone in the house? I'm thinking the guy stayed about an hour.. and if say his appointment was for a one-hour slot, he still could've billed for that wasted hour (assuming of course, the people in the house hadn't been murdered already, at which point he was obviously SOL, imo.) Who else would've spent that much time at a person's door? Obviously the occupant was either not home, or not wanting to answer the door to this person. But jmo.

She had a meeting at 8:30 am and the Thursday guy arrived at 9:11 at the home, so I’m not sure if he was there to meet her. And I’d think the Sherman investigators would know who may have been scheduled, especially if they were on the payroll, imo.

It may be nothing, it just bugs me. Like Donovan mentioning *one* newspaper at the door on Friday. There should have been two.

 

[deugirtni]

She had a meeting at 8:30 am and the Thursday guy arrived at 9:11 at the home, so I’m not sure if he was there to meet her. And I’d think the Sherman investigators would know who may have been scheduled, especially if they were on the payroll, imo.

It may be nothing, it just bugs me. Like Donovan mentioning *one* newspaper at the door on Friday. There should have been two.

Right.. so couldn't have been a scheduled meeting with H.. could it have been same but with B, before he went off to the office? That would also make sense then, that he was male. I don't think it could be anyone unexpected, since it would be extremely rude and demanding of some random person or acquaintance even, to hang around, knocking and knocking, for approx one hour.

Yes, the mention of only one newspaper is interesting. If NW's video was published on his way FROM the residence, it didn't appear that he had a newspaper with him. Whenever that story was written or told to the author, perhaps the subscription was cancelled for the one paper at some point before their murders? I can't remember where we read about the two newspapers.

 

[ldlager]

I know that some service provider occupations tell their staff not to park in their clients' driveways, as a matter of policy. Is it possible the 'mystery man' could've been a physiotherapist or some such thing? First visit perhaps? Just arranged the day before possibly (ie on the Wednesday)? If it was a police officer, would they have sent out TWO officers to check up on a potentially bogus 911 call - it seems that both the officer at the other neighbour's door and the mystery man parked out front of the Sherman residence were there at the same time, so that would mean two separate officers, possibly also two separate police vehicles? Would that make sense in Toronto? Would an officer checking out a potentially bogus 911 call have spent an hour outside in the winter, going back and forth between vehicle and house, knocking on the door, etc, or would he possibly presume the occupants weren't home and decide to try again later, perhaps in the evening? I'm thinking Toronto officers are swamped, and wouldn't spend that much time on a call like that.

I think 'after the fact', they did spend time investigating how 911 calls are identified if they arrive in different ways, ie say by using random wifi, or perhaps data on a burner phone, or using some kind of spoofing software, etc. etc. etc., because by then, that time spent would've been worth it to investigate 'suspicious deaths'. At that point however, if it was THAT important for police to speak to someone at that house, or perhaps every house on the street(?), to try to determine where a 911 call could've originated, they perhaps could've found other means to identify and reach the owners?

I'm thinking along the lines of personal service provider - although I'm wondering if H would've allowed a male to perform services if she was alone in the house? I'm thinking the guy stayed about an hour.. and if say his appointment was for a one-hour slot, he still could've billed for that wasted hour (assuming of course, the people in the house hadn't been murdered already, at which point he was obviously SOL, imo.) Who else would've spent that much time at a person's door? Obviously the occupant was either not home, or not wanting to answer the door to this person. But jmo.

Or perhaps a tradesperson like a painter? It has been reported that painting was being done in the house and a tradesperson would likely have parked on the street. Plus they could have left their paint, equipment etc. In the house overnight so the weren’t seen carrying anything into the house.

 

[ldlager]

She had a meeting at 8:30 am and the Thursday guy arrived at 9:11 at the home, so I’m not sure if he was there to meet her. And I’d think the Sherman investigators would know who may have been scheduled, especially if they were on the payroll, imo.

It may be nothing, it just bugs me. Like Donovan mentioning *one* newspaper at the door on Friday. There should have been two.

exactly right about the newspapers.

 

[ldlager]

Right.. so couldn't have been a scheduled meeting with H.. could it have been same but with B, before he went off to the office? That would also make sense then, that he was male. I don't think it could be anyone unexpected, since it would be extremely rude and demanding of some random person or acquaintance even, to hang around, knocking and knocking, for approx one hour.

Yes, the mention of only one newspaper is interesting. If NW's video was published on his way FROM the residence, it didn't appear that he had a newspaper with him. Whenever that story was written or told to the author, perhaps the subscription was cancelled for the one paper at some point before their murders? I can't remember where we read about the two newspapers.

there would have been 2 newspapers- one from Thursday morning and one from Fri morning. The same paper (ie like globe and mail) just 2 days. I think I recall that when the service providers arrived Fri morning they reported picking up a single newspaper outside the door.

 

[deugirtni]

Or perhaps a tradesperson like a painter? It has been reported that painting was being done in the house and a tradesperson would likely have parked on the street. Plus they could have left their paint, equipment etc. In the house overnight so the weren’t seen carrying anything into the house.

That's true.. it's possible the painters weren't finished yet, and came back to do some more? (Although wouldn't they park in the driveway after having been there already?) Did H give the painter(s) a key to let themselves in if she and B had already left for the morning?

 

[branmuffin]

I might be mistaken, but don't police officers all drive the same vehicles in the same colour, etc., depending on their roles? If the vehicle seen on the neighbour's video was LE, wouldn't it have been fairly easy to identify at least that it was that type of vehicle, ie 'Chargers' or whatever, even though the plate couldn't be seen, the guy's face couldn't be seen, even though it was grainy, etc? When I was very young, I remember people I was with being able to identify potential police coming in the opposite direction based on the headlights.

Patrol officers drive marked vehicles. Plain clothes officers usually drive unmarked vehicles. Although, depending on how many may descend on a crime scene I'm sure some of the brass arrived in their personal vehicles.