Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[Veeduck]

I read through all of these articles and the second one on the list is the only one that said the Sherman’s were wearing winter coats for the purpose of immobilizing their arms. None of the articles said Honey was wearing boots or that the maid was with the real estate agent when she discovered their bodies. All the other articles said the couple was fully clothed. ...

http://frankmag.ca/2017/12/what-happened-to-the-shermans/
"The more so, since they were both found with their winter coats and boots still on - adding to the weight."

http://frankmag.ca/2018/01/26787/
"The murder/suicide construction is rendered all the more improbable by the fact that both Shermans [Barry] and his wife were found wearing their winter coats and boots ..."

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...ionaire-wife-a-tantalizing-mystery/ar-AAv05M6
"Their bodies were discovered Dec. 15 by a maid and a real estate agent."

BBM

IIRC, there were several early articles that said the victim's jackets were pulled down over their arms to restrict them. Kevin Donovan's article may be the only source to use the term 'winter coats' in conjunction with the term 'immobilizing.' But 'winter coats' has superseded 'jackets' in most later articles, since it was quite cold on Dec 13.

AFAIK, Frank Magazine is the only source that mentions the boots. I don't have a problem believing it, even without a second source confirmation, but some people don't consider this source to be MSM.

 

[nuff]

Repost for those who haven't been able to watch ..

The Mystery of the Sherman MurdersThe Fifth Estate
http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1152581699942

Before our friends south of the border get excited, note that CBC Player is usually only accessible in Canada. (CBC is a public, partially government -(ie taxpayer-) funded network.

 

[ldlager]

Exactly. Someone who also knew the coming and going of staff. They would have known the regular movements of the housekeeper, outdoor snow removal people, etc. I still find it hard to believe no one went looking for Honey and Barry and it took a real estate agent to find them.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

Perhaps the date of death is significant. Perhaps they had to be killed by a certain date or else BS was going to do something or some event was going to happen. S Paiken the tv host for TVOntario made a cryptic reference on FB I think to a potential LE action coming against them, remember? Then he removed it quickly afterwards after public backlash Not sure just speculating.

 

[JDG]

I wonder what "was made his uncle's legal heir" mean? :thinking:

Was BS going to inherit all that the Winters own (house, businesses, money) if they died?

Did that stop when they adopted the first boy, and then BW gave birth to the other 3 boys?

I wonder how BS felt when uncle Lou died suddenly and didn't leave a will. :thinking:

The Winters thought they couldn't have children, so BS was LWs legal heir. Yes, it means he would get everything if they died.

Of course, it would change upon the adoption and births of further children.

I didn't see where LW didn't leave a will? did you have a link? Must have missed it.

Even intestate, the government has a formula for division of the estate. Anyway, LW died first, so it went to BW.

Her will would no doubt have been the one used, for her children.

 

[AllyJane]

Deuteronomy 21:22–23 teaches that there was a divine curse placed on a hanged person: “And if a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God. You shall not defile your land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance” (ESV).

There are other examples of curses in Judaism.

"And if a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death" that is part of that equation. Besides, the Shermans weren't orthodox and pretty sure they would not consider this a "curse". And if the killers were orthodox then they would be breaking the 10 commandments so I am not sure this was done as a "curse". Send a message maybe. But not a curse.

 

[AllyJane]

Agree. Unless there's something we don't know, present and former household staff are probably being considered by LE. JMO.

Exactly. How do we know that a staff member didn't deliberately leave a side door unlocked to allow access to the killers. Maybe the staff didn't know it would lead to murder (maybe they thought a robbery that insurance would reimburse the Sherman's for their loss).

 

[BUF]

I wonder what "was made his uncle's legal heir" mean? :thinking:

Was BS going to inherit all that the Winters own (house, businesses, money) if they died?

Did that stop when they adopted the first boy, and then BW gave birth to the other 3 boys?

I wonder how BS felt when uncle Lou died suddenly and didn't leave a will. :thinking:

I think 'legal heir' could have meant BS being the 'executor' of the estate. I think I read that somewhere. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

 

[Tighthead]

I think 'legal heir' could have meant BS being the 'executor' of the estate. I think I read that somewhere. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

Executor and heir are different things.

 

[Grey-St]

I'm not sure how many of the commenters here are American versus Canadian, but it is by no means easy to get a gun in Canada. Now, the types of people who might do something like this probably have better access to guns than I do, but it's not the same as south of the border.

As well as a gun that is "clean" or untraceable to anyone, including the perpetrator(s).

 

[Grey-St]

Here is Barry’s autobiography. On page,15 he talks about working for,his uncle summers. One job was to bring pregnancy tests to a lab. I do not see the big mentoring in his writings.

https://www.scribd.com/document/367757654/A-Legacy-Of-Thoughts-by-Bernard-C-Sherman

Thanks, you can find other articles where mentoring is discussed.

 

[Grey-St]

Before our friends south of the border get excited, note that CBC Player is usually only accessible in Canada. (CBC is a public, partially government -(ie taxpayer-) funded network.

They can find it on YouTube also!

 

[JayFriend]

Except in Judaism hanging is a curse. Even if it was staged, it could be a message. Also strangulation is personal and up close which would fit with personal revenge. It could fit just fine. Guns are loud. Not sure how close neighbors are.

What would be the point of revenge when nobody knows what it's for? If indeed it's revenge, then somebody, family or in the business, must know what it's for and who sent the message.

 

[AllyJane]

What would be the point of revenge when nobody knows what it's for? If indeed it's revenge, then somebody, family or in the business, must know what it's for and who sent the message.

Agreed. Hopefully the LE has far more information than they are releasing. Since this is a targetted murder per LE, then the motive would likely be very personal even if the killers were hired.

 

[Grey-St]

What would be the point of revenge when nobody knows what it's for? If indeed it's revenge, then somebody, family or in the business, must know what it's for and who sent the message.

They may very well have an idea. Revenge isn't always committed to send a message to others, though.

 

[Myles]

I believe someone on here, a few pages back, wanted to find out what the Winter brothers were up to their adult years. I found this in regards to
Jeffrey Barkin and Wayne Rockcliffe (his uncle)

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=1272993

It looks like they worked together at some point. Also, Jeffrey's address is the same address that was listed for the service for his adoptive father, Dr. Barkin, who died last month.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

I don't think it was big pharma either. In my opinion it was an "insider" someone who knew the habits and schedule of Honey and Barry. Someone who was comfortable in the house and knew their way around the house. They knew where the master bedroom and Barry's closet was to find belts. They knew the ideal "hiding spot" for the bodies. Ligature strangulation is very up close and personal and tends to show hate. Imo this was not a professional hit, it was a highly emotional killing. Maybe not even planned because they didn't come with a weapon.

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The House was for sale, the plans and pictures online. Available for showings. Anyone could have known those things even if they hadn’t been in the house. I do agree it’s personal and emotional.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

The forensics professor has no access to LE information. So he can only be speculating that there is no DNA. I am not sure if he actually said that. But I think he agreed that it was a targetted killing but not necessarily by professionals. (I am going by memory so I can be wrong).

I think HS put up a fight which possibly the killer(s) were suprised by. Maybe they hit her with something else that was around the pool, maybe with one of the belts.

I think LE can mislead but I think they need to be careful in case they give the future Defense lawyers a theory to work with. But LE has given so little info that I can't imagine what they could be misleading about. I think it is more about what they AREN'T saying that is misleading.

I watched it again yesterday and I didn’t get “clean” as referring to DNA. I took clean to mean not a lot of blood splatter, rooms tossed etc which to me says it intention was to kill them. JMO

 

[dotr]

I believe someone on here, a few pages back, wanted to find out what the Winter brothers were up to their adult years. I found this in regards to
Jeffrey Barkin and Wayne Rockcliffe (his uncle)

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=1272993

It looks like they worked together at some point. Also, Jeffrey's address is the same address that was listed for the service for his adoptive father, Dr. Barkin, who died last month.

Welcome to Ws Myles, thanks for the link!

 

[Jealoushe]

What would be the point of revenge when nobody knows what it's for? If indeed it's revenge, then somebody, family or in the business, must know what it's for and who sent the message.

The person doing it, would know...and that would satisfy the need for revenge.

 

[clearskies1]

I watched it again yesterday and I didn’t get “clean” as referring to DNA. I took clean to mean not a lot of blood splatter, rooms tossed etc which to me says it intention was to kill them. JMO

That's what I thought as well. The home being in good condition, apparently no broken items etc (as well as the awful way the bodies were found -- tied to the railing) probably caused LE to initially think it was a murder/suicide. I do think the hangings by the suspect(s) may not have been a message, but rather an attempt to make it look like a double suicide. JMO.