Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[deugirtni]

I wonder why KW has murder on the mind so often. BS killing the Winter father. Barry hiring him to kill Honey. Barry killing Honey.

What’s up with that kind of thought process?

Where can I read about KW's thoughts that BS killed his father, LW? I missed that one. Thx.

 

[dotr]

Let's not forget that LE have images, for all we know they might have a pretty good idea of who is responsible for these heinous murders.
Maybe they are waiting as they did in the Tess Richey case, to pounce on the culprit(s).
imo, speculation rbbm.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/deaths-o...ing-investigated-as-double-homicide-1.3776793

She said since then, “thousands of hours” have been spent on the investigation so far and that detectives have executed search warrants for electronic evidence at Barry Sherman’s pharmaceutical company Apotex where he was chairman and CEO.

Four terabytes of surveillance footage has also been seized from area businesses and homes, each containing 500 hours of footage.

So far, 127 witnesses have been interviewed, but the list of people that detectives still need to speak with is growing, she said.

“We believe now, through the six week work review, we have sufficient evidence to describe this as a double homicide investigation and that both Barry and Honey Sherman were in fact targeted,” she said.

She refused to comment on possible suspects or motives in the case but said police had captured “images of people in the neighbourhood.”

“We will continue to focus exclusively on evidence with whatever resources are necessary,” she added. “We ask anyone to come forward with anything they may think is valuable to the investigation.”

 

[deugirtni]

I missed this one too, sorry if it's being repeated:

But he does allege participating in a conversation with his cousin Barry Sherman in which he claims the Apotex founder asked him to arrange for his wife to be “whacked.”

Winter said “this business about Barry asking me to kill someone…“could be misconstrued as a conspiracy to commit a murder.”

He’s trying to balance that fine line between it not being a conspiracy he was involved in but one that Barry Sherman was allegedly spearheading.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...rman-deaths-murder-suicide-fails-lie-detector

 

[deugirtni]

Re watching the trial. Are trials in Canada live-streamed?

Not only aren't they live-streamed, but no photographs are allowed to be taken inside our courts. That is why you will find various artist illustrations during trials, such as this one, from one of Dellen Millard's trials:

The above is from the Laura Babcock trial, when her father was being examined on the stand by the accused, who was representing himself.

Our media is allowed to photograph outside of the courts, so they stand in wait, hoping to catch someone coming or going to trial, such as an important witness.

The above is from the Tim Bosma trial, when Millard's girlfriend was on her way to or from the court to testify as a hostile witness for the prosecution.

 

[1&2&3]

With nothing new happening, I see we are on repeating the same topics we have already covered.

The newest and most intriguing fact is the earring that was found after the House was turned over to the PI. Was this a coincidence or a plant to see how good the PI’s are at their job? Was it traced back to be a missing earring from HS.?

 

[JDG]

Let's not forget that LE have images, for all we know they might have a pretty good idea of who is responsible for these heinous murders.
Maybe they are waiting as they did in the Tess Richey case, to pounce on the culprit(s).
imo, speculation rbbm.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/deaths-o...ing-investigated-as-double-homicide-1.3776793

Sadly, they are asking people to come forward with information as well. Doesn't mean they don't have someone in mind but they should finish all the interviews, unless of course its obvious.

Now, they could 'put that out there, to re-assure the killer that they are NOT onto him/her as well.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Not only aren't they live-streamed, but no photographs are allowed to be taken inside our courts. That is why you will find various artist illustrations during trials, such as this one, from one of Dellen Millard's trials:

The above is from the Laura Babcock trial, when her father was being examined on the stand by the accused, who was representing himself.

Our media is allowed to photograph outside of the courts, so they stand in wait, hoping to catch someone coming or going to trial, such as an important witness.

The above is from the Tim Bosma trial, when Millard's girlfriend was on her way to or from the court to testify as a hostile witness for the prosecution.

Thank you for the information.

Another query if I may as to Canadian media. It's my understanding that when somebody is named as a suspect, all media must shut down. If that is true, perhaps that is why the television show wanted to release everything they had, because they would be shut down from broadcasting it if/when he was named a suspect?

 

[Jealoushe]

I don't really think they've ever made that proclamation to be honest. I think they wondered what really happened with their father's company, and felt wronged when they found out. I agree, Apotex was successful because of BS.
Also, people don't usually use their thumb as a coke nail.

Its more people on here who have said it....but also, KW is very bitter about it.

Yeah, I'm aware a coke nail isn't usually a thumb, but there's nothing usual about KW or this case.

I was able to watch the Fifth Estate episode last night, and wow, just wow. First thing I noticed when they asked KW if he killed Barry and Honey, he looked down and to the right - a tell tale sign someone is lying. Plus rapid blinking. He is hiding something

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...1/#count-how-long-someone-closes-their-eyes-3

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Its more people on here who have said it....but also, KW is very bitter about it.

Yeah, I'm aware a coke nail isn't usually a thumb, but there's nothing usual about KW or this case.

I was able to watch the Fifth Estate episode last night, and wow, just wow. First thing I noticed when they asked KW if he killed Barry and Honey, he looked down and to the right - a tell tale sign someone is lying. Plus rapid blinking. He is hiding something

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...1/#count-how-long-someone-closes-their-eyes-3

IIRC, most of the studies that were done were saying that was for right-handed people. I'm a left-handed person, and years ago I remember I looked into this. When I recall something I look to my right, I'm not sure how the brain works and other people perhaps do. Is he left handed or right handed? And then we take into consideration whether he writes with his left hand but everything else is with his right hand as far as dominance?

"According to the theory, when right-handed people look up to their right they are likely to be visualising a "constructed", or imagined, event. In contrast when they look to their left they are likely to be visualising a what is known as a "remembered" memory. For this reason, when liars are constructing their own version of the truth, they tend to look to the right."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-truth-about-lying-its-the-hands-that-betray-you-not-the-eyes-7936522.ht

 

[Bravo]

Once charges are placed a publication ban is requested and always granted. This will IMO be allowed as trial by tweet.

 

[minorone]

Its more people on here who have said it....but also, KW is very bitter about it.

Yeah, I'm aware a coke nail isn't usually a thumb, but there's nothing usual about KW or this case.

I was able to watch the Fifth Estate episode last night, and wow, just wow. First thing I noticed when they asked KW if he killed Barry and Honey, he looked down and to the right - a tell tale sign someone is lying. Plus rapid blinking. He is hiding something

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-...1/#count-how-long-someone-closes-their-eyes-3

I just watched it again and noticed a few other things from that article:
- false smile & hands to the face, the way he puts his hand behind his head
- shaking his head in denial when saying he is telling the truth
- I think he is right handed as he uses his right hand when drinking the water

He is visibly upset when he realizes he did not pass the test.

 

[AllyJane]

Re watching the trial. Are trials in Canada live-streamed?

Nope. They won't broadcast trials here.

 

[JDG]

IIRC, most of the studies that were done were saying that was for right-handed people. I'm a left-handed person, and years ago I remember I looked into this. When I recall something I look to my right, I'm not sure how the brain works and other people perhaps do. Is he left handed or right handed? And then we take into consideration whether he writes with his left hand but everything else is with his right hand as far as dominance?

"According to the theory, when right-handed people look up to their right they are likely to be visualising a "constructed", or imagined, event. In contrast when they look to their left they are likely to be visualising a what is known as a "remembered" memory. For this reason, when liars are constructing their own version of the truth, they tend to look to the right."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...hands-that-betray-you-not-the-eyes-7936522.ht

those are all theories, all theories have exemptions. Being left handed vs right handed affects an awful lot of things, its a kind of 'backward' wiring. Im a leftie and my mother could never teach me to knit. Not sure who was more frustrated. ME! lol Yet, you can learn to knit if you are a southpaw. IMO we are more creative. IMO

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

He didn't get home until after 9pm. Not sure how likely it is for seniors to go out for dinner on a Wednesday night to dinner in the suburbs then. I would think if they wanted to go to dinner they would have done so after the architect meeting.

I grew up in Palm Springs and still winter there. I see a lot of seniors out to dinner after 9 on a weeknight. I do think dinner is a stretch though.

 

[Bravo]

I hope to see live streaming one day in Canada. I luv the protocols in Canadian Courts. Think British system minus the wigs as far as dress. When the Judge enters you not only stand but do a half bow.

 

[Jealoushe]

those are all theories, all theories have exemptions. Being left handed vs right handed affects an awful lot of things, its a kind of 'backward' wiring. Im a leftie and my mother could never teach me to knit. Not sure who was more frustrated. ME! lol Yet, you can learn to knit if you are a southpaw. IMO we are more creative. IMO

The article I posted made reference to which side carries your imagination too, and that you "look" there when making things up, interesting read. I remembered the thing about looking down or up and right from studies we read in school on lying and profiling.

It is of course just theories, but it is used commonly with police in interrogations etc. I have a pretty good read on people normally, although I have been fooled by a psychopath before. So I find it interesting to watch for those things in cases like this.

 

[musicaljoke]

I grew up in Palm Springs and still winter there. I see a lot of seniors out to dinner after 9 on a weeknight. I do think dinner is a stretch though.

If not dinner, it could have been another outing. It's not unusual for business people to go out for dinner at 9:00, especially if that's when they get home from work, and the household help is away, and they had a meeting over the dinner hour. I don't see where they might have had dinner in sooner than that.

Or they might have been heading out for another purpose, or not. The main point is that we can't be sure that HS was murdered earlier based only on the fact that she was wearing a coat. BS might have called her ten minutes earlier to say he was nearly home, and asked her to grab her coat.

 

[musicaljoke]

Winter was in the press about this case last Spring ...

...the siblings had relatively stable relationships with Sherman, which crumbled prior to launching their lawsuit against him 10 years ago, Winter said. He mentioned there was a time he could walk right by security at Apotex and head into Sherman’s office.

“I look at my life today and I feel very strongly that if I ran into a whack of dough, my life really wouldn’t change that much,” Winter said. “I’ve got a great job, I see my kids every other weekend, I have a beautiful girlfriend who has been living with me for almost four years.

“I don’t know if it’s so much about getting five, 10 or X amount of millions. To me this is about, and I know it sounds cliché, it’s really about making Barry Sherman accountable.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ned-cousins-seek-piece-of-apotex-fortune.html

 

[AllyJane]

If not dinner, it could have been another outing. It's not unusual for business people to go out for dinner at 9:00, especially if that's when they get home from work, and the household help is away, and they had a meeting over the dinner hour. I don't see where they might have had dinner in sooner than that.

Or they might have been heading out for another purpose, or not. The main point is that we can't be sure that HS was murdered earlier based only on the fact that she was wearing a coat. BS might have called her ten minutes earlier to say he was nearly home, and asked her to grab her coat.

True but I think it was mentioned by some report that no one saw them since leaving Apotex but who knows if that is correct.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Winter was in the press about this case last Spring ...

...the siblings had relatively stable relationships with Sherman, which crumbled prior to launching their lawsuit against him 10 years ago, Winter said. He mentioned there was a time he could walk right by security at Apotex and head into Sherman’s office.

“I look at my life today and I feel very strongly that if I ran into a whack of dough, my life really wouldn’t change that much,” Winter said. “I’ve got a great job, I see my kids every other weekend, I have a beautiful girlfriend who has been living with me for almost four years.

“I don’t know if it’s so much about getting five, 10 or X amount of millions. To me this is about, and I know it sounds cliché, it’s really about making Barry Sherman accountable.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ned-cousins-seek-piece-of-apotex-fortune.html

Girlfriend living with him? I thought he lived alone. Breakup + losing case = trigger?

JMO