Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[hudunit]

They were both in their day clothes.A lot of seniors go to bed before 11pm.It they were killed by outsiders it was probably before then,if after 11pm they would have been in pyjamas or at least one of them would.That 3 hours and the fact that neither changed clothing is quite significant.MOO

 

[rhenium]

Would anyone else here think these are signs of a marriage in trouble?

HS recently recovered from cancer.
She switched to a fashionable, young hairstyle and changed her dark brown hair color to light blond.
She worked out with a personal trainer.
They put their family home of 27 years on the market before the construction for the new one even started.
The real estate agent, a long-time friend of the couple, declined to answer when asked about the unusual timing for the listing.
The new house was under HS’s name only, IIRC.

MOO

 

[Breamworthy]

BS may have been the one with all the money, but HS seems to be the one to decide where and on whom that money is spent.
Maybe HS was the primary target.
imo, speculation.

Yes, this is an interesting idea. Just because he's the one who earned the money doesn't mean he was the main target. If they killed (or at least bound) her when she got home alone, they were committing before actually knowing how things would play out with him. Doesn't sound like an incidental target to me.

 

[Tighthead]

Would anyone else here think these are signs of a marriage in trouble?

HS recently recovered from cancer.
She switched to a fashionable, young hairstyle and changed her dark brown hair color to light blond.
She worked out with a personal trainer.
They put their family home of 27 years on the market before the construction for the new one even started.
The real estate agent, a long-time friend of the couple, declined to answer when asked about the unusual timing for the listing.
The new house was under HS’s name only, IIRC.

MOO

1. No. No clue why recovering from cancer relates to the marriage in trouble.
2. She was very fashionable and image conscious based on pictures. Had likely had work done. May not have been the first time she dyed her hair.
3. She may have been doing this for years.
4. They had no financial pressure to sell the house. Even if the marriage was ending, they didn’t need the equity with any urgency.
5. The agent is respecting their privacy and possibly the investigation as well. Speaking out would be the wrong thing to do.
6. Not unusual and has been discussed to death in earlier threads.

 

[hudunit]

Yes, this is an interesting idea. Just because he's the one who earned the money doesn't mean he was the main target. If they killed (or at least bound) her when she got home alone, they were committing before actually knowing how things would play out with him. Doesn't sound like an incidental target to me.

And sat around for 2 to 3 hrs for Barry to arrive.Not sure....

 

[Breamworthy]

Would anyone else here think these are signs of a marriage in trouble?

HS recently recovered from cancer.
She switched to a fashionable, young hairstyle and changed her dark brown hair color to light blond.
She worked out with a personal trainer.
They put their family home of 27 years on the market before the construction for the new one even started.
The real estate agent, a long-time friend of the couple, declined to answer when asked about the unusual timing for the listing.
The new house was under HS’s name only, IIRC.

MOO

Not really. Regarding the hair, she may have lost some of it due to cancer treatment and wanted something different/temporary during her recovery. It could even have been a wig.

She had probably worked out with a personal trainer for many years. Almost everyone wealthy I have ever known has a personal trainer. Do you have any reason to think this was a recent development?

Regarding the home, they were on their way to Florida for a month and I understand they owned a condo downtown where they were planning to live during the construction. They probably planned for most of the showing, etc. to happen while they were out of the country.

Many seniors I know switch ownership of property and investments to the one they expect may live longer, so that doesn't seem odd either. It could also protect the home from any lawsuits against him.

It also doesn't seem odd that a long time friend of theirs (the real estate agent) would choose not to speak to media about her friends' gruesome death.

 

[AllyJane]

Would anyone else here think these are signs of a marriage in trouble?

HS recently recovered from cancer.
She switched to a fashionable, young hairstyle and changed her dark brown hair color to light blond.
She worked out with a personal trainer.
They put their family home of 27 years on the market before the construction for the new one even started.
The real estate agent, a long-time friend of the couple, declined to answer when asked about the unusual timing for the listing.
The new house was under HS’s name only, IIRC.

MOO

No. The house being under her name was address earlier. They said they wanted a home closer to downtown where they are more active. Women change their hairstyle regularly. BS also recovered from cancer about 10 years ago. The personal trainer was probably to help her with mobility due to her arthritis or prescribed by a doctor after recovering from cancer. There are a lot of homes in my area that have just gone up for sale. I think a house like theirs will only have a specific type of buyer and that buyer doesn't care about season.

 

[hudunit]

There have to be some clues in the house about when Honey was murdered.If it was when she got home her gloves etc would not be put away.If after there would be signs of her being home and doing things or on computer or such.If not she may have been ambushed as she came home,but again that leaves a long wait for the killers to kill Barry.

 

[rhenium]

1. No. No clue why recovering from cancer relates to the marriage in trouble.
2. She was very fashionable and image conscious based on pictures. Had likely had work done. May not have been the first time she dyed her hair.
3. She may have been doing this for years.
4. They had no financial pressure to sell the house. Even if the marriage was ending, they didn’t need the equity with any urgency.
5. The agent is respecting their privacy and possibly the investigation as well. Speaking out would be the wrong thing to do.
6. Not unusual and has been discussed to death in earlier threads.

1. People often make major life changes after recovering from a serious illness.
2. Likely she dyed her hair regularly but not in a drastic way, going from dark brown to light blond.
3. Fair enough.
4. So why put it on the market? Why not stay in their home until the new one is ready?
5. The agent could have easily justified the listing using market statistic, stating that certain properties sell just as good in winter as they would springtime. Instead, she declined to comment.
6. Fair enough.

 

[rhenium]

Not really. Regarding the hair, she may have lost some of it due to cancer treatment and wanted something different/temporary during her recovery. It could even have been a wig.

She had probably worked out with a personal trainer for many years. Almost everyone wealthy I have ever known has a personal trainer. Do you have any reason to think this was a recent development?

Regarding the home, they were on their way to Florida for a month and I understand they owned a condo downtown where they were planning to live during the construction. They probably planned for most of the showing, etc. to happen while they were out of the country.

Many seniors I know switch ownership of property and investments to the one they expect may live longer, so that doesn't seem odd either. It could also protect the home from any lawsuits against him.

It also doesn't seem odd that a long time friend of theirs (the real estate agent) would choose not to speak to media about her friends' gruesome death.

AFAIK, they owned two residential properties, one in Toronto and one in Florida.

The real estate agent wasn’t asked about the gruesome deaths. She was asked about the poor timing:

Asked why the couple chose to list in winter — considered to be a poor time to enter the real estate market — the Sherman’s real estate agent Judi Gottlieb declined to comment.

http://nationalpost.com/news/toront...after-bodies-found-in-couples-toronto-mansion

 

[rhenium]

rsbm

No. There are a lot of homes in my area that have just gone up for sale. I think a house like theirs will only have a specific type of buyer and that buyer doesn't care about season.

That would’ve been a perfectly good answer instead of declining to comment.

 

[AllyJane]

I think she was declining to comment on everything related to them including finding their bodies. Here is the entire portion of the part about her:

Asked why the couple chose to list in winter — considered to be a poor time to enter the real estate market — the Sherman’s real estate agent Judi Gottlieb declined to comment.
“The Sherman’s were very dear friends of mine for many, many years and we’re all in shock,” she wrote in an email. “More than this, I’m not prepared to talk about.”

 

[rhenium]

I think she was declining to comment on everything related to them including finding their bodies. Here is the entire portion of the part about her:

Asked why the couple chose to list in winter — considered to be a poor time to enter the real estate market — the Sherman’s real estate agent Judi Gottlieb declined to comment.
“The Sherman’s were very dear friends of mine for many, many years and we’re all in shock,” she wrote in an email. “More than this, I’m not prepared to talk about.”

Is there indication in the article of any further questions? It seems to me that she - for some reason - avoided answering a simple market related question, then switched focus and made a statement about her friendship with the Shermans and the understandable emotional shock she was experiencing. MOO

 

[AllyJane]

Is there indication in the article of any further questions? It seems to me that she - for some reason - avoided answering a simple market related question, then switched focus and made a statement about her friendship with the Shermans and the understandable emotional shock she was experiencing. MOO

Considering she is the one who found the dead bodies and she was long time friends of the Shermans, I think her answer was completely suitable. In anyone in that situation who will end up being a witness at a trial shouldn't be talking about anything to the press.

 

[Tighthead]

1. People often make major life changes after recovering from a serious illness.
2. Likely she dyed her hair regularly but not in a drastic way, going from dark brown to light blond.
3. Fair enough.
4. So why put it on the market? Why not stay in their home until the new one is ready?
5. The agent could have easily justified the listing using market statistic, stating that certain properties sell just as good in winter as they would springtime. Instead, she declined to comment.
6. Fair enough.

1. Find me an empirical stidy that directly correlates recovery from cancer and ending a marriage to support the assertion that you have now doubled down on - nothing anecdotal.

2. You are admitting you don’t know.

4. We don’t know why they chose to list it, but to say it is a result of marital breakdown isn’t logical. They were putting it on the market because it was part of whatever’s plan they had.
5. Again, pure speculation. Saying nothing is appropriate for both her clients privacy and the investigation.

If the marriage was over over why would they both meet with the architect? Why were they still living under the same roof? Why were they spending time in Florida together over the holiday?

 

[Tighthead]

rsbm

That would’ve been a perfectly good answer instead of declining to comment.

Respecting the privacy of your murdered clients seems “perfectly good”. A public comment is wholly inappropriate.

Would the answer be “perfectly good” if the police asked her not to comment?

 

[Hazel]

Considering she is the one who found the dead bodies and she was long time friends of the Shermans, I think her answer was completely suitable. In anyone in that situation who will end up being a witness at a trial shouldn't be talking about anything to the press.

AllyJane, are you positive it was her who found them? I ask because someone else here on this Websleuth's thread posted she learned from an acquaintance that it was a male agent who found them, and I read on another forum it was someone other (female) than the listed agent who found BS&HS, but this could be a rumour.

In that article you quoted it says JG replied by email, so I'm assuming that she didn't give that statement to the reporters right there, outside the house. JMO speculation

Asked why the couple chose to list in winter — considered to be a poor time to enter the real estate market — the Sherman’s real estate agent Judi Gottlieb declined to comment.

“The Sherman’s were very dear friends of mine for many, many years and we’re all in shock,” she wrote in an email. “More than this, I’m not prepared to talk about.”

 

[AllyJane]

AllyJane, are you positive it was her who found them? I ask because someone else here on this Websleuth's thread posted she learned from an acquaintance that it was a male agent who found them, and I read on another forum it was someone other (female) than the listed agent who found BS&HS, but this could be a rumour.

In that article you quoted it says JG replied by email, so I'm assuming that she didn't give that statement to the reporters right there, outside the house. JMO speculation

I am pretty sure it was her who found them.

 

[Hazel]

I am pretty sure it was her who found them.

:tyou: AllyJane!!

 

[ldlager]

And sat around for 2 to 3 hrs for Barry to arrive.Not sure....

i have to believe that they knew that BS was actually coming home that night, and not travelling somewhere after he finished work. They knew what to expect from the Sherman’s schedule. Imo.