Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[human]

Thinking about this statement now, thinking that maybe the killer/s knew that Barry was seldom seen without Honey.
Chances of getting him alone were likely slim, so if they wanted him, they would have to target Honey too.

It is peculiar that HS missed that meeting one day prior to the murders, but she was still able to respond when they reached out to ask if HS was okay.
Could somebody have been with HS at the time, perhaps trying to dissuade her from going to the meeting and maybe trying to stop whatever plans she had for that meeting?
If so, did they try to pressure her to push Barry into investing or donating to a different cause, or to drop a lawsuit of one sort or another?

speculation, imo.

“You would always see Honey without Barry, but if you saw Barry he was pretty much always with Honey,”

Barry was at work everyday without Honey. I imagine they meant socially.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Barry was at work everyday without Honey. I imagine they meant socially.

I'm very touched by the many pics over tens of years where Honey and Barry always faced the cameras with a nice smile and stood close together, sometimes her arm around him, her hand holding his arm or hand, etc.

 

[ldlager]

In addition to the answer to the obvious question in this case (who are the killers? why were the Shermans murdered?) there are so many unanswered questions in this case. Set out below are five of the many questions that I would really like to know the answers to:

1. How did Eric Hoskins, Ontario Minister of Health, know about the killings, and the identities of the victims so soon after the discovery of the bodies? Hoskins tweeted about the deaths and identified the victims as Honey and Barry Sherman at 3.30 pm. less than 4 hours after the bodies were first discovered by the realtor. At that time, LE had not publicly released the names of the victims, and evidently many Sherman family members hadn’t even been notified by LE of the crime. Who provided him these details, and why? What other politicians and members of LE were advised of the details of the crime scene and the identity of the victim before the family was even notified?
2. What impact will the potential contamination of the crime scene have on the veracity of any forensic evidence from the crime scene that may one day be presented at trial? Obviously, (though it could not be helped I am sure) the real estate agent and first responders accessed the crime scene and may have disturbed forensic evidence. We know that an Apotex employee was able to enter the house undiscovered and unescorted even after LE had supposedly “secured” the house. We also know (from video and previous postings on this site) that one of the individuals removing the Sherman’s bodies entered and left the house while not wearing any protective footwear to prohibit contamination of the crime scene. There may be other instances of unauthorized access to the crime scene that we are not aware of. It would be interesting to know how a defense attorney would use these instances to call into question the reliability any forensic evidence that LE may have found at the crime scene.
3. What information did Steve Paikin have or receive regarding a pending action by law enforcement against the Shermans? Paikin, of TVO’s The Agenda, tweeted on the day after the bodies were discovered that he had “… heard from a trusted source that an alleged law enforcement investigation was closing in on the Shermans, and that the noose was tightening..." (my comment- yes those were his words- can you imagine the pain to the family when they read this last part?). Notably, his tweet implies that both Barry and Honey were the subject of the LE investigation. He removed the tweet within a few hours, for reasons unknown at this point. Why did he remove the tweet? What information did Paikin receive, and from whom? What was the nature of the “pending actions” against the Shermans, and what is the status of these actions?
4. Why were the bodies removed through the front door of the house, and not the garage? Using the garage would seem to be much easier- it was on the same floor as the pool area. The removal vehicle could have been pulled right into the garage and then loaded with the bodies, away from press cameras and onlookers. Instead, the bodies were carried on a gurney up a flight of winding stairs, through the front lobby of the house, through the front door and down the stairs outside the house, in full view of the public and the press. Did the garage contain evidence that wasn’t yet collected or documented? Or did LE want the press to videotape and publish the removal of the bodies, and if so, why?
5. How did the earring(s) that were discovered at the end of the Sherman’s driveway within hours of the PI team taking over the house from LE get there? LE had the house for six weeks, and used metal detectors on the Sherman’s lawn, sidewalks, etc. as well as those of their neighbours. Officers walked up the driveway numerous times. How did the earrings, which look a lot like earrings that Honey had been photographed wearing, remain undetected by LE over the almost month and a half that forensic teams accessed the site every day? And if the earrings were instead planted there after LE left the scene, why and by whom? And are they in fact Honey’s earrings?

All the above MOO

 

[matou]

In addition to the answer to the obvious question in this case (who are the killers? why were the Shermans murdered?) there are so many unanswered questions in this case. Set out below are five of the many questions that I would really like to know the answers to:

1. How did Eric Hoskins, Ontario Minister of Health, know about the killings, and the identities of the victims so soon after the discovery of the bodies? Hoskins tweeted about the deaths and identified the victims as Honey and Barry Sherman at 3.30 pm. less than 4 hours after the bodies were first discovered by the realtor. At that time, LE had not publicly released the names of the victims, and evidently many Sherman family members hadn’t even been notified by LE of the crime. Who provided him these details, and why? What other politicians and members of LE were advised of the details of the crime scene and the identity of the victim before the family was even notified?
2. What impact will the potential contamination of the crime scene have on the veracity of any forensic evidence from the crime scene that may one day be presented at trial? Obviously, (though it could not be helped I am sure) the real estate agent and first responders accessed the crime scene and may have disturbed forensic evidence. We know that an Apotex employee was able to enter the house undiscovered and unescorted even after LE had supposedly “secured” the house. We also know (from video and previous postings on this site) that one of the individuals removing the Sherman’s bodies entered and left the house while not wearing any protective footwear to prohibit contamination of the crime scene. There may be other instances of unauthorized access to the crime scene that we are not aware of. It would be interesting to know how a defense attorney would use these instances to call into question the reliability any forensic evidence that LE may have found at the crime scene.
3. What information did Steve Paikin have or receive regarding a pending action by law enforcement against the Shermans? Paikin, of TVO’s The Agenda, tweeted on the day after the bodies were discovered that he had “… heard from a trusted source that an alleged law enforcement investigation was closing in on the Shermans, and that the noose was tightening..." (my comment- yes those were his words- can you imagine the pain to the family when they read this last part?). Notably, his tweet implies that both Barry and Honey were the subject of the LE investigation. He removed the tweet within a few hours, for reasons unknown at this point. Why did he remove the tweet? What information did Paikin receive, and from whom? What was the nature of the “pending actions” against the Shermans, and what is the status of these actions?
4. Why were the bodies removed through the front door of the house, and not the garage? Using the garage would seem to be much easier- it was on the same floor as the pool area. The removal vehicle could have been pulled right into the garage and then loaded with the bodies, away from press cameras and onlookers. Instead, the bodies were carried on a gurney up a flight of winding stairs, through the front lobby of the house, through the front door and down the stairs outside the house, in full view of the public and the press. Did the garage contain evidence that wasn’t yet collected or documented? Or did LE want the press to videotape and publish the removal of the bodies, and if so, why?
5. How did the earring(s) that were discovered at the end of the Sherman’s driveway within hours of the PI team taking over the house from LE get there? LE had the house for six weeks, and used metal detectors on the Sherman’s lawn, sidewalks, etc. as well as those of their neighbours. Officers walked up the driveway numerous times. How did the earrings, which look a lot like earrings that Honey had been photographed wearing, remain undetected by LE over the almost month and a half that forensic teams accessed the site every day? And if the earrings were instead planted there after LE left the scene, why and by whom? And are they in fact Honey’s earrings?

All the above MOO

I read that tweet from Eric Hoskins when he posted it. Very interesting he publicly posted that tweet. Also interesting he abruptly resigned his provincial post to lead national pharmacare project. I've also been curious about Paikin's tweet.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...s-as-ontario-health-minister/article38120290/

 

[Satchie]

I think the news travelled like wildfire, people didn't wait for police to contact all the relatives (some of whom may not have been near their phone) before phoning/texting/messaging everyone they knew.

A tweet from the Health columnist for the Globe and mail preceded Hoskins' tweet by 20 mins (I'm on pacific time) 12:08 pm https://mobile.twitter.com/picardonhealth/status/941761800894369795?lang=en

And Hoskins resignation, IMO, was all about politics and his future political career. He didn't want to run in the June election, and found a ship to jump to until he can run federally.

 

[ldlager]

I think the news travelled like wildfire, people didn't wait for police to contact all the relatives (some of whom may not have been near their phone) before phoning/texting/messaging everyone they knew.

A tweet from the Health columnist for the Globe and mail preceded Hoskins' tweet by 20 mins (I'm on pacific time) 12:08 pm https://mobile.twitter.com/picardonhealth/status/941761800894369795?lang=en

And Hoskins resignation, IMO, was all about politics and his future political career. He didn't want to run in the June election, and found a ship to jump to until he can run federally.

Pretty sad that Hoskins couldn’t wait to announce on Twitter the deaths of his “close friends” the Sherman’s. No regard for their or their family’s privacy, he just wanted to make everyone aware he knew them. It says a lot about his character, or more accurately lack thereof imo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.puffingod.com/portfolio/news/hoskins-easily-keeps-st-pauls/

Notables in the audience to support Hoskins were his wife Samantha Nutt and son Rhys, along with Ward 22 councillor Josh Matlow, St. Paul’s MP Carolyn Bennett and Our Lady Peace frontman Raine Maida.

I see a further notable looking over H.'s shoulder ....

 

[WINDSOR]

In addition to the answer to the obvious question in this case (who are the killers? why were the Shermans murdered?) there are so many unanswered questions in this case. Set out below are five of the many questions that I would really like to know the answers to:

1. How did Eric Hoskins, Ontario Minister of Health, know about the killings, and the identities of the victims so soon after the discovery of the bodies? Hoskins tweeted about the deaths and identified the victims as Honey and Barry Sherman at 3.30 pm. less than 4 hours after the bodies were first discovered by the realtor. At that time, LE had not publicly released the names of the victims, and evidently many Sherman family members hadn’t even been notified by LE of the crime. Who provided him these details, and why? What other politicians and members of LE were advised of the details of the crime scene and the identity of the victim before the family was even notified?
2. What impact will the potential contamination of the crime scene have on the veracity of any forensic evidence from the crime scene that may one day be presented at trial? Obviously, (though it could not be helped I am sure) the real estate agent and first responders accessed the crime scene and may have disturbed forensic evidence. We know that an Apotex employee was able to enter the house undiscovered and unescorted even after LE had supposedly “secured” the house. We also know (from video and previous postings on this site) that one of the individuals removing the Sherman’s bodies entered and left the house while not wearing any protective footwear to prohibit contamination of the crime scene. There may be other instances of unauthorized access to the crime scene that we are not aware of. It would be interesting to know how a defense attorney would use these instances to call into question the reliability any forensic evidence that LE may have found at the crime scene.
3. What information did Steve Paikin have or receive regarding a pending action by law enforcement against the Shermans? Paikin, of TVO’s The Agenda, tweeted on the day after the bodies were discovered that he had “… heard from a trusted source that an alleged law enforcement investigation was closing in on the Shermans, and that the noose was tightening..." (my comment- yes those were his words- can you imagine the pain to the family when they read this last part?). Notably, his tweet implies that both Barry and Honey were the subject of the LE investigation. He removed the tweet within a few hours, for reasons unknown at this point. Why did he remove the tweet? What information did Paikin receive, and from whom? What was the nature of the “pending actions” against the Shermans, and what is the status of these actions?
4. Why were the bodies removed through the front door of the house, and not the garage? Using the garage would seem to be much easier- it was on the same floor as the pool area. The removal vehicle could have been pulled right into the garage and then loaded with the bodies, away from press cameras and onlookers. Instead, the bodies were carried on a gurney up a flight of winding stairs, through the front lobby of the house, through the front door and down the stairs outside the house, in full view of the public and the press. Did the garage contain evidence that wasn’t yet collected or documented? Or did LE want the press to videotape and publish the removal of the bodies, and if so, why?
5. How did the earring(s) that were discovered at the end of the Sherman’s driveway within hours of the PI team taking over the house from LE get there? LE had the house for six weeks, and used metal detectors on the Sherman’s lawn, sidewalks, etc. as well as those of their neighbours. Officers walked up the driveway numerous times. How did the earrings, which look a lot like earrings that Honey had been photographed wearing, remain undetected by LE over the almost month and a half that forensic teams accessed the site every day? And if the earrings were instead planted there after LE left the scene, why and by whom? And are they in fact Honey’s earrings?

All the above MOO

As Health Minister, Hoskins was directly involved in costs related to Medicine, Pharmacare and in negotiations with Big Pharma, Hoskins was very familiar with the Shermans and other players in the industry. No doubt Hoskins had tough dealings with Barry.

The contamination issues are normal for CSI people to deal with. Typical of any crime scene.

My understanding is that Steve Paikin's tweet was a retweet of Toronto Sun's Lorrie Goldstein original tweet. What does Goldstein know or thinks he knows is more significant. Has Goldstein said anymore about the tweet?

I do not see any significance how the bodies were removed from the residence. They were dead already, what difference could it make?

Regarding the earrings, during six weeks of winter, the earring may have moved. The fact it was not found by law enforcement initially does not mean it was 'planted later'. It might have been in one location, naturally moved to where it became visible.


We have to be careful not to not overvalue things that have a plausible explanation. That is how urban rumors get started. Often what is more important in solving a crime is following the evidence, especially that evidence that was present before the crime occurred.


My own opinion only

 

[ldlager]

As Health Minister, Hoskins was directly involved in costs related to Medicine, Pharmacare and in negotiations with Big Pharma, Hoskins was very familiar with the Shermans and other players in the industry. No doubt Hoskins had tough dealings with Barry.

The contamination issues are normal for CSI people to deal with. Typical of any crime scene.

My understanding is that Steve Paikin's tweet was a retweet of Toronto Sun's Lorrie Goldstein original tweet. What does Goldstein know or thinks he knows is more significant. Has Goldstein said anymore about the tweet?

I do not see any significance how the bodies were removed from the residence. They were dead already, what difference could it make?

Regarding the earrings, during six weeks of winter, the earring may have moved. The fact it was not found by law enforcement initially does not mean it was 'planted later'. It might have been in one location, naturally moved to where it became visible.


We have to be careful not to not overvalue things that have a plausible explanation. That is how urban rumors get started. Often what is more important in solving a crime is following the evidence, especially that evidence that was present before the crime occurred.


My own opinion only

Thanks Windsor. Regarding the Paikin tweet, in his Dec 19 Toronto Sun article, Warmington refers to the tweet as having come from Steve Parkin.
But I am sure Warmington has lots of info he has not disclosed.

Regarding the earrings, if LE thinks nature moved them then I would think LE should be revisiting the crime scene even now- maybe the strong winds of this week has moved some evidence that was perhaps stuck up in the branches of the trees?

My questions were also intended to spark some discussion here as things have slowed down in the case. If others have questions that are bugging them let’s get them posted!

 

[matou]

I posted the Paikin tweet on here and it was not a retweet.

 

[dotr]

Have been looking for but barely finding cases where a hitman has been instructed to strangle someone rather than shoot them. Found this odd one, obviously a personal vendetta but wondering why it was important for there to be no blood, imo.fwiw.
http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/a...trangle-his-daughterinlaw-20131125-2y5yl.html
November 25 2013

Albany businessman Brian Attwell 'wanted a hitman to strangle his daughter-in-law'

He used foul names to describe his target, saying she had cost his son Ian $200,000 in a legal dispute.

"I just want her strangled, no blood," Mr Attwell is claimed to have said.

rbbm.

 

[Peace777]

I hope they are fast tracking any forensic/clues they might have found in the home. There must be shoe prints (FBI has labs to see i prints invisible to the naked eye) They also can lift prints from any type of material now a days. Murder or murders WILL be caught, I have hope

 

[Grey-St]

Pretty sad that Hoskins couldn’t wait to announce on Twitter the deaths of his “close friends” the Sherman’s. No regard for their or their family’s privacy, he just wanted to make everyone aware he knew them. It says a lot about his character, or more accurately lack thereof imo.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I thought that was incredibly distasteful. You wouldn't find me tweeting about the death of my "close friends", as if it's some race of the thumbs. I'd be shocked, sickened, saddened, and only wanting to be around or communicating with other loved ones, not the twitterverse.

I dunno, Hoskins has always rubbed me the wrong way and this kind of solidified it for me.

 

[Grey-St]

As Health Minister, Hoskins was directly involved in costs related to Medicine, Pharmacare and in negotiations with Big Pharma, Hoskins was very familiar with the Shermans and other players in the industry. No doubt Hoskins had tough dealings with Barry.

The contamination issues are normal for CSI people to deal with. Typical of any crime scene.

My understanding is that Steve Paikin's tweet was a retweet of Toronto Sun's Lorrie Goldstein original tweet. What does Goldstein know or thinks he knows is more significant. Has Goldstein said anymore about the tweet?

I do not see any significance how the bodies were removed from the residence. They were dead already, what difference could it make?

Regarding the earrings, during six weeks of winter, the earring may have moved. The fact it was not found by law enforcement initially does not mean it was 'planted later'. It might have been in one location, naturally moved to where it became visible.


We have to be careful not to not overvalue things that have a plausible explanation. That is how urban rumors get started. Often what is more important in solving a crime is following the evidence, especially that evidence that was present before the crime occurred.


My own opinion only

Rbbm. I personally believe that the way the bodies were removed, was pretty strange. It makes me think there was a specific reason they didn't want to go through the garage. It was physically more effort and much more "showy" the way they went, like how the OP stated. I think that's worth a thought or two.

 

[ldlager]

Rbbm. I personally believe that the way the bodies were removed, was pretty strange. It makes me think there was a specific reason they didn't want to go through the garage. It was physically more effort and much more "showy" the way they went, like how the OP stated. I think that's worth a thought or two.

Grey-St, I see RBBM posted frequently. Sorry for the stupid question, but what does RBBM stand for? Thank you in advance.

 

[Beth11311]

Grey-St, I see RBBM posted frequently. Sorry for the stupid question, but what does RBBM stand for? Thank you in advance.

Respectfully Bolded By Me. We like to be extra polite [emoji8]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WINDSOR]

I posted the Paikin tweet on here and it was not a retweet.

Post #189 by "loveisthemovment"

Steve Paikin‏Verified account
@spaikin
21h21 hours ago
More Steve Paikin Retweeted Lorrie Goldstein
I have heard from a trusted source that an alleged law enforcement investigation was closing in on the Shermans, "and the noose was tightening." Might be a potential explanation for a possible murder-suicide. #Sherman

Hoping this tweet is allowed because Ann Brocklehurst retweeted....

Okay, based on the above post by loveisthemovment, I believed it was a repost. On the other hand it appears that some government/law enforcement agency was investigating Apotex and/or Barry Sherman constantly.

 

[Hazel]

Will all due respect, I believe that matou is correct.
I did some searching last night and found it, but today I can't find it, lol.
Seems to me that SP re-tweeted and replied to LG's tweet. I could be wrong though. JMHO

I posted the Paikin tweet on here and it was not a retweet.

Post #189 by "loveisthemovment"

Steve Paikin‏Verified account
@spaikin
21h21 hours ago
More Steve Paikin Retweeted Lorrie Goldstein
I have heard from a trusted source that an alleged law enforcement investigation was closing in on the Shermans, "and the noose was tightening." Might be a potential explanation for a possible murder-suicide. #Sherman

Hoping this tweet is allowed because Ann Brocklehurst retweeted....

Okay, based on the above post by loveisthemovment, I believed it was a repost. On the other hand it appears that some government/law enforcement agency was investigating Apotex and/or Barry Sherman constantly.

Today I found these two other links, dated Dec. 16, 2017, hope they don't go MIA.

> LG tweet 12:07 pm https://twitter.com/sunlorrie/status/942123922312511488

> SP tweet 04:14 pm https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRRNjcSXkAEwzmu.jpg

Meanwhile, police have not commented on a tweet from Steve Paikin, of TVO’s The Agenda, that he had “heard from a trusted source that an alleged law enforcement investigation was closing in on the Shermans.”
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

 

[Hazel]

The other side of Barry Sherman

Barry and Honey Sherman were beloved philanthropists. But he lived amid feuding family members, endless lawsuits and corporate espionage. What really happened before their tragic deaths.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/barry-honey-sherman-murders/

:star2: :star2: :star2: :star2: :star2:

This Macleans article is superb. Thanks for posting!

 

[nuff]

. I've also been curious about Paikin's tweet.

My memory is that Steve Paikin subsequently deleted his tweet, and apologized for it. I don't think his information was correct.