Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[ldlager]

Thank you Dotr

 

[ldlager]

I don't think the perp (s) is KW. I'm leaning towards someone who has big influence and power I.e a rival company CEO or someone with powers that is or was working at Apotex.
Covert tactics are being used by LE as per the Star article. Everything is being kept very hush hush. Why use "covert tactics" to get info/evidence on KW as he seems to not be an influential person.
From the article "The Star argued that the “perpetrator(s)” likely already knew what would needed to be done to frustrate the police. Similarly, police said they were worried that, if the public were told who had been interviewed, this would allow the “perpetrator (s)” to approach people who have not been interviewed “with a view to influencing their participation in the investigation.”
Who has the "power" to influence others, potential witnesses to keep quiet about what they may know and not talk/give info to police? "perpetrator (s) to approach people..."
Could potential witnesses lives be in danger if they talk? Who has that sort of "power" to scare witnesses? Who wants something to stay covered up and for what reasons? Who gains from Barry Sherman's death (as I think he was the main target)? Hmmm Follow the money and business affairs... JMO

IMO if LE is worried that potential witnesses could be threatened, they have completely dismissed the possibility of this being the work of foreign professional killers who have left the country.

 

[human]

I cannot see this as a home invasion. I cannot see the purpose of the staging. I would think that crime would be a quick in and out.

As far as a CEO or someone benefitting financially, a quick murder if that is what was needed ,would be done. I do not think people like that want to draw attention to themselves.

When I read on here, a murder seems so obvious.The ligature marks on the wrists but nothing found that corresponds. I would think anyone who was faking a suicide would be aware that would be discovered. But then again we have seen on WS that obvious murders have been identified as suicides at first.

I am thinking that there is some kind of video information from cameras in the neighborhood, The killers arrived somehow. LE keeps info to themselves. We see that in the murder of Adea Shabani. The killer was on video but the public did not know it.

I

 

[ldlager]

I don't think this is necessarily the case. I think when they say "apparently premeditated" they don't mean that there's a chance that it actually wasn't premeditated. They're police submitting a legal document, and trying not to give the appearance of jumping to conclusions. The same way they would use the word "alleged" to describe even things that they are already quite certain of but have not yet been proven in a court of law.

Respectfully Breamworthy, I will only point out that this Yim detective is in charge of writing and filing all requests for search warrants, disclosures, etc. With I’m sure the assistance of TPS lawyers. He is also responsible for assisting in writing the arguments to keep the background material from being disclosed to the public. As such, words are very important in his work, and I’m sure he was selected for this job because of his attention to detail, and his precise command of the language and ability to wordsmith. So when he inserts the word “apparently” into a sentence when it doesn’t need to be there, I am going to take his statement at face value. It leads me to wonder how much LE really doesn’t know. Otherwise, why do they need to hedge their bets?

 

[WINDSOR]

IMO if LE is worried that potential witnesses could be threatened, they have completely dismissed the possibility of this being the work of foreign professional killers who have left the country.

'Potential witnesses being threatened' is a concern of LE in every case, to a lesser or greater degree.

I do not see how LE could dismiss the possibility of the murders being committed by foreign professionals, because the witnesses may feel threatened. I am pretty positive that LE has not ruled out any scenario based on witnesses feelings.

 

[Grey-St]

But if that were the case, wouldn't they seek out the second pathologist's results rather than waiting to read about them in the paper and eventually making contact with Chaisson 3+ weeks after the autopsy was done? (If the Star is to be believed, which we have only their word for.)

True, but I'm sure they were quite busy conducting their own investigation in hopes of coming to their own sound conclusion. When the time was right, the two parties were in contact.

 

[ldlager]

'Potential witnesses being threatened' is a concern of LE in every case, to a lesser or greater degree.

I do not see how LE could dismiss the possibility of the murders being committed by foreign professionals, because the witnesses may feel threatened. I am pretty positive that LE has not ruled out any scenario based on witnesses feelings.

Except the quote refers specifically to the perpetrator(s) APPROACHING people and potential witnesses. I doubt a professional killer is going to fly back overseas to talk to or threaten a potential witness in Toronto- if they even knew who the potential witness was. If they knew of a witness, they would have silenced them before they left the country.

 

[dotr]

O/t
Sadly, Toronto has lost another philanthropist.
https://www.cp24.com/news/barrick-gold-founder-peter-munk-dies-in-toronto-at-age-90-1.3862973

[h=1]Barrick Gold founder Peter Munk dies in Toronto at age 90[/h]

Munk became one of Canada's best-known philanthropists, including a $175 million donation to the Toronto General Hospital in 1997. Barrick said he donated nearly $300 million to causes and institutions over his lifetime.

 

[Breamworthy]

Respectfully Breamworthy, I will only point out that this Yim detective is in charge of writing and filing all requests for search warrants, disclosures, etc. With I’m sure the assistance of TPS lawyers. He is also responsible for assisting in writing the arguments to keep the background material from being disclosed to the public. As such, words are very important in his work, and I’m sure he was selected for this job because of his attention to detail, and his precise command of the language and ability to wordsmith. So when he inserts the word “apparently” into a sentence when it doesn’t need to be there, I am going to take his statement at face value. It leads me to wonder how much LE really doesn’t know. Otherwise, why do they need to hedge their bets?

I don't think we're disagreeing here - unless just slightly over what falls into the category of hedging their bets. I agree that the word choice is very deliberate and certainly wasn't suggesting otherwise. If they write "premeditated" they are opening the door to legal arguments that any evidence discovered as a result should be thrown out if it turns out not to be premeditated. Perhaps defense lawyers will argue that some portion of the staging was not premeditated and hence evidence should be excluded, etc. By saying "apparently premeditated" the lawyers and LE experts who draw up the police documents are attempting to protect against as many possible future legal objections as possible. I'm sure they are always trying to strike a balance between creating a compelling document, and actually committing to as little as possible to protect against any issues that might arise at trial.

 

[ldlager]

I don't think we're disagreeing here - unless just slightly over what falls into the category of hedging their bets. I agree that the word choice is very deliberate and certainly wasn't suggesting otherwise. If they write "premeditated" they are opening the door to legal arguments that any evidence discovered as a result should be thrown out if it turns out not to be premeditated. Perhaps defense lawyers will argue that some portion of the staging was not premeditated and hence evidence should be excluded, etc. By saying "apparently premeditated" the lawyers and LE experts who draw up the police documents are attempting to protect against as many possible future legal objections as possible. I'm sure they are always trying to strike a balance between creating a compelling document, and actually committing to as little as possible to protect against any issues that might arise at trial.

Ah lawyers.....lol. Thanks

 

[Satchie]

IMO if LE is worried that potential witnesses could be threatened, they have completely dismissed the possibility of this being the work of foreign professional killers who have left the country.

I disagree, I don't think the police reasons for opposing disclosure of this ongoing investigation reveal anything about the actual case. I think Canadian police trot out this same list of reasons in every instance when the media tries to force access to investigative files, police never want to reveal information, period, unless they decide it's absolutely necessary to assist the investigation...

 

[WINDSOR]

Except the quote refers specifically to the perpetrator(s) APPROACHING people and potential witnesses. I doubt a professional killer is going to fly back overseas to talk to or threaten a potential witness in Toronto- if they even knew who the potential witness was. If they knew of a witness, they would have silenced them before they left the country.

Not to get too wrapped up in semantics and phraseology. If one only construes APPROACHING people, personally and physically, then you are correct, in your assumption of killers not likely flying back to Toronto.

However if 'approaching' is done through intermediaries, types of messaging, or other forms of communications, then overseas hitmen are not excluded.

Bear in mind as well, even though the hitmen may have been from overseas, the person(s) who employed them may be residents of Canada.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

O/T

If ever the life story of Barry and HONEY S. would be told in a movie I would cast RR (see the video) as an actress for Honey's part. Like twins, separated at birth, IMO. I am quite touched because of the similarity.
I adore RR; she is a wonderful actress, beautiful (Honey's age), well known in Ger. as an investigator/commissioner in TV crime series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFVWWPyL1T0

 

[JayFriend]

"‘Covert’ tactics, more search warrants may be coming in Barry and Honey Sherman murder probe: Police"

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...-barry-and-honey-sherman-murder-probe-police/

 

[human]

"‘Covert’ tactics, more search warrants may be coming in Barry and Honey Sherman murder probe: Police"

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/...-barry-and-honey-sherman-murder-probe-police/

Loyalty cards for airlines. What is the point of that? It could be for others than the Sherman’s.

 

[dotr]

Passover must be a particularly sad time for the Sherman family and friends, wishing them all the best.

 

[WINDSOR]

Loyalty cards for airlines. What is the point of that? It could be for others than the Sherman’s.

Often times investigators want to get as much info as possible, especially about purchase and travel behaviors. What we buy and where we go tells alot about us. Patterns appear. Investigators then focus on the unusual, or activities that do not seem to fit the pattern.

Again we have to be careful in assuming it was only the Sherman's loyalty cards they are looking into. Likely they are checking Shermans' cards, but they may be checking cards of other people as well.

 

[Hazel]

O/T

If ever the life story of Barry and HONEY S. would be told in a movie I would cast RR (see the video) as an actress for Honey's part. Like twins, separated at birth, IMO. I am quite touched because of the similarity.
I adore RR; she is a wonderful actress, beautiful (Honey's age), well known in Ger. as an investigator/commissioner in TV crime series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFVWWPyL1T0

Funny you mentioned about a movie. When I watched the following clip, I immediately thought the actor playing the pharmacist looked a lot like BS, and could be cast as a young Barry.
Btw, SDM Life brand is Apotex.

[video=youtube;V2UfXiZm2Mg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2UfXiZm2Mg[/video]

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Funny you mentioned about a movie. When I watched the following clip, I immediately thought the actor playing the pharmacist looked a lot like BS, and could be cast as a young Barry.
Btw, SDM Life brand is Apotex.

[video=youtube;V2UfXiZm2Mg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2UfXiZm2Mg[/video]

Can't view unfortunately but found the video on Facebook. You are right: quite the type of younger Barry. Only he's missing this all time shown smiling.

 

[dotr]

Can't view unfortunately.

Too bad, it was quite funny!
Maybe this link might work?
http://www.cbc.ca/22minutes/videos/clips-season-23/life-brand-marijuana