Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

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  • #941
Imo it mAkes no difference if honey was killed elsewhere in the house. How does that eliminate the possibility of other killers?Why couldn’t the killers have killed her elsewhere in the house and then moved her and positioned her near the pool with Barry suspended from the railing? If Barry wanted it to look like a double murder he could have killed her anywhere and moved her.

in addition, it has been discussed previously that the housekeeping staff had evidently been in the house between thurs morning and Friday when the realtor arrived and found them. They didn’t go downstairs. How do you explain the alarm not recording their access to the house? Or maybe you think they flew in through the skylight?

I am curious, if you know that no one else accessed the house, why haven’t you disclosed this to Joe Warmington at the Toronto Sun so that he can review and publish it? “You” (lol) were so anxious to speak to anyone in the press a few months ago to paint Barry in a negative light. After all, your new “facts” would certainly cast a negative light on your “cousin”.

I think that police are smart enough to take in to account the entrances and exits of the housekeeper and realtor before determining that nobody entered that house after Barry did.

I'll put the question to you; If Barry killed Honey in an argument and decided that he would end his life to cover it up, how exactly do you think he would have done it? He has two options, make it look like a double suicide, or a double murder. Honey has already been strangled, and is also supposedly showing signs of trauma, his choices are extremely limited.
 
  • #942
Again, I think we are going off in a tangent that Barry murdered Honey in a fit of rage or as a result of an argument.

Most often when someone kills as a result of rage, the signs and evidence on the murdered victim are quite apparent. Multiple injuries to the body, signs of repeated blows or stabbings. Usually the body is quite a mess. The reason being is, the murderer is so angry with the victim he lets anger out and devastates the victim. Rather than one bad bruise on Honey's head, I would expect a rage killer would have pummeled her face in. That is the reality of these murders.

Because of no prior incidence of anger or rage towards Honey, and Barry's rather introverted personality, and no signs of rage and anger trauma on the body of Honey, and then the apparent calm and the apparent rational staging of the bodies, I cannot see any logical explanation that this is a murder suicide.

Rather than speculating what might have happened, in terms of murder/suicide we should focus on what probably happened.

Now if somebody has the following information I might reconsider M/S, such as,
*Honey expressed a fear of Barry previously, to friends and family.
*Barry was prone to physical violence.
*The house showed signs of disarray and a struggle between Honey and Barry at the time of deaths.
*Honey's body showed signs of excessive trauma.
Or some other evidence that strongly points to M/S.
 
  • #943
I think that police are smart enough to take in to account the entrances and exits of the housekeeper and realtor before determining that nobody entered that house after Barry did.

I'll put the question to you; If Barry killed Honey in an argument and decided that he would end his life to cover it up, how exactly do you think he would have done it? He has two options, make it look like a double suicide, or a double murder. Honey has already been strangled, and is also supposedly showing signs of trauma, his choices are extremely limited.

thanks Andrew. I already posted in many early postings in this forum in excruciating detail how I thought Barry could have done it. I just don’t think TPS is lying about the double murder. Just like I don’t think NASA is lying about landing on the moon, or the US government is lying about the towers coming down because of airplanes flying into them.
 
  • #944
So is the garage door hooked up to the house alarm system? I doubt it, or every time Barry came home he would set off the alarm by opening the garage.
 
  • #945
So is the garage door hooked up to the house alarm system? I doubt it, or every time Barry came home he would set off the alarm by opening the garage.

Probably the door inside the garage from the garage to the house was on the alarm system, that would be fairly normal I would assume.
 
  • #946
Until LE stated that this was a double murder, i was on the side of murder suicide. I posted many views and theories on how BS did it. Lots of posters disagreed with me. But that’s ok, that’s what WS is for. When LE said this was a double targeted murder I accepted their statement. But it is really surprising to me how many posters continue to think this was a MS, and that the TPS is lying. To me it says a lot about the general mistrust that the public has of the TPS. A sign of much larger underlying problems IMO.

We have seen many times when LE says one thing, like for example in the BM case, reassuring people (in December) that the disappearances were not connected, and that there was no SK in their midst, like people had been claiming for years!
All the while they had created Project Prism, were conducting an investigation, surveilling and following a suspect, LE obviously don't want to alert the perp(s) so they will relax and make mistakes.
That's ALL good, I'm not criticizing how LE does their work, we DO want LE to catch the bad guys using all the tools at their disposal, including "covert tactics," conceiling information from the public, using the press, etc. etc.
Knowing that, some people don't "blindly believe" all that we read/hear in the news. ;)
It's not distrust in LE, we know they can't disclose the evidence they collected while the investigation is active. So again, it's not mistrust, it's just that some of us like to "remove the noise" so to speak, read between the lines, separate the chaff from the wheat, use our brains, use common sense, question what doesn't make sense, etc. :)

And let's be honest, this case has had many interferences, ahem, I mean twists and turns ;) that make people raise their eyebrows (at the least).
Then hearing so many say, "this case will never be solved, will go cold" -- well that just puts the cherry on top of the cake. :cupcake:
Suspected serial killer under Toronto police investigation for months

https://globalnews.ca/news/3977317/bruce-mcarthur-toronto-police-investigation/
snippets:

... arrested at his Toronto home following a months-long probe into missing persons cases.
In August 2017, Project Prism was created to allow officers to investigate the disappearances.
McArthur was under police investigation for some time. In October staff at Dom’s Auto Parts in Courtice, Ont., were visited by investigators.

“They wanted to know if we had a particular van that we had purchased. They gave me the [vehicle identification number], we ran it through the system (and) we found we had processed it through our garage,” garage owner Dominic Vtere told Global News Friday, adding he gave officers surveillance video showing McArthur arriving at the shop on Sept. 16.

The announcement about McArthur comes just over a month after Toronto police reassured concerned members of the gay community that there was no reason to believe the disappearances in the village were related in any way or that a serial killer may be involved.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3977317/bruce-mcarthur-toronto-police-investigation/


Toronto police reassure public there is no serial killer responsible for waves of disappearances in LGBT community

December
http://nationalpost.com/news/toront...-for-waves-of-disappearances-in-gay-community
 
  • #947
We have seen many times when LE says one thing, like for example in the BM case, reassuring people (in December) that the disappearances were not connected, and that there was no SK in their midst, like people had been claiming for years!
All the while they had created Project Prism, were conducting an investigation, surveilling and following a suspect, LE obviously don't want to alert the perp(s) so they will relax and make mistakes.
That's ALL good, I'm not criticizing how LE does their work, we DO want LE to catch the bad guys using all the tools at their disposal, including "covert tactics," conceiling information from the public, using the press, etc. etc.
Knowing that, some people don't "blindly believe" all that we read/hear in the news. ;)
It's not distrust in LE, we know they can't disclose the evidence they collected while the investigation is active. So again, it's not mistrust, it's just that some of us like to "remove the noise" so to speak, read between the lines, separate the chaff from the wheat, use our brains, use common sense, question what doesn't make sense, etc. :)

And let's be honest, this case has had many interferences, ahem, I mean twists and turns ;) that make people raise their eyebrows (at the least).
Then hearing so many say, "this case will never be solved, will go cold" -- well that just puts the cherry on top of the cake. :cupcake:

Thanks Hazel. I understand what you are saying. In this case the police have indicated a double murder took place, by third parties. In doing so, they have alerted the murderers that they are looking for them. And they have tołd the public that there are murderers. If they were wanting to maIntain silence or not alert anyone they could have just remained silent, and not announced a mm. In saying it’s a mm, in putting themselves out there, they wouldn’t have done so without some evidence to support it. They can’t go back to ms now, doing so would make them look completely and totally incompetent. Jmo.
 
  • #948
Again, I think we are going off in a tangent that Barry murdered Honey in a fit of rage or as a result of an argument.

Most often when someone kills as a result of rage, the signs and evidence on the murdered victim are quite apparent. Multiple injuries to the body, signs of repeated blows or stabbings. Usually the body is quite a mess. The reason being is, the murderer is so angry with the victim he lets anger out and devastates the victim. Rather than one bad bruise on Honey's head, I would expect a rage killer would have pummeled her face in. That is the reality of these murders.

Because of no prior incidence of anger or rage towards Honey, and Barry's rather introverted personality, and no signs of rage and anger trauma on the body of Honey, and then the apparent calm and the apparent rational staging of the bodies, I cannot see any logical explanation that this is a murder suicide.

Rather than speculating what might have happened, in terms of murder/suicide we should focus on what probably happened.

Now if somebody has the following information I might reconsider M/S, such as,
*Honey expressed a fear of Barry previously, to friends and family.
*Barry was prone to physical violence.
*The house showed signs of disarray and a struggle between Honey and Barry at the time of deaths.
*Honey's body showed signs of excessive trauma.
Or some other evidence that strongly points to M/S.

The pompous earring, broken in 2 parts and found outside only some time after the gruesome incident, makes no sense, neither regarding M/S nor D/M - IMO. I don't see a reason.
 
  • #949
A taller, bigger man can always overpower a woman. Women do not have the power in their fists as men do, nor do they have any experience of punching.

Nonsense. He wasn't substantially taller nor is there any suggestion of prior "experience of punching"and, in spite of her ailments, Honey exercised and was probably in better general physical shape. It took real strength to stage the bodies as they were found.
 
  • #950
I’m not some imposter. I’ve been reading posts for quite some time. Miele has is right except for:
*my cousin Barry had a terrible temper and after he “snapped” and killed Honey he had to think very quickly.
*he knew that the ONLY way to cover the murder was to stage “2 lovers holding hands ending their lives together”.... both of them committing suicide.
*PROBLEM: my cousin ****ed up in 2 places.
1. Honey was killed somewhere else in the house.
2. She was already dead before the belt was wrapped around the pool railing.
I know more....maybe, a story coming out soon in a major mag....not National Enquirer!
BTW: l passed a polygraph my lawyer arranged 2 days after The Fifth Estate “ambush” gong show with flying colours. Barry asked me to arrange the murder of his wife....twice.
Hint: the police KNOW that only Barry and Honey entered their home.....until the real estate agent showed up on the Friday and found them by the pool. In other words, HOW did the phantom murderers leave!!!! The elaborate computerized alarm system showed: No windows or doors opened or closed after Barry came home. It was ONLY Barry and Honey in the house. No forced entry...No suspects. Wasn’t that what the police originally said?!?!
Now their on Greenspan’s bandwagon. Wealthy family doesn’t get to rewrite history. The truth will come out.
BTW: my mother saw Barry from a country mile away. She knew he’d steal the business from me and my brothers.
This Dickens tale isn’t over.
Why would he kill himself as well? Why not just stage her death as suicide, or clean himself up and stage a bungled burglary and he came home to the discovery of her body left where she was originally attacked? Why didn't he want to live afterwards if he had planned for years to have her murdered?
 
  • #951
And where is the Greenspan team today? I found it very strange that they were able to determine that this was a double murder simply by examining the bodies. How could the coroner have missed the injuries that Greenspan's guy claimed to have found? Especially given that those types of injuries are exactly what he would have been looking for. It seems to me that Greenspan was hired for the sole purpose of getting the murder theory on the front page of every paper in town, which he did despite having no access to any evidence aside from the bodies. Why have we not heard another word from him? Why have we not heard a word from the family?

People have to understand the great philanthropist Barry Sherman. The press may have painted him as a generous caring person, but in truth I believe that every single one of those donations came with a price tag. Sherman & Co. know exactly how to use money to get what they want. We are talking about having access to police chiefs, mayors, premiers, and prime ministers. People will dance for money, don't kid yourself. <modsnip>
1. I don't think we know for certain that the first pathologist didn't note the marks or injuries that the second pathologist did. All we heard was COD, and that MOD was still unclear. It's okay to wait on MOD while an investigation is taking place.
2. Pretty sure the family is mourning and grieving. I don't think we have any right to "hear from them".
 
  • #952
I don't think the intent was to make it look like a double suicide. I think he wanted it to look like a double murder. If he wanted it to look like suicide, a simple note would have been convincing. If in fact Honey was cut and bleeding, suicide is a hard sell. So how does one kill themselves and make it look like murder? Not easy. Interesting that the manner in which he died is about the only way that one could end his own life yet make it look like murder. Their hands were restrained, but not tied? He obviously couldn't tie his own hands. I think people here have been reading too many spy novels. If someone wants you dead, they shoot you and leave. The do NOT strangle you upstairs, drag you downstairs, leave you lying there for hours, then string you up to make it look like a hanging. And I'll ask you this, why is it that honey is the one with the defence wounds? Wouldn't Barry be the obvious one to put up a fight?

<modsnip>
It's pretty presumptuous to say that Barry would have put up a fight, and Honey would not have. I don't see any evidence to suggest that Barry would be the obvious one.

Additionally, their hands were restrained, and likely tied, then the ties removed once hung. You're right, hard to do that yourself, therefore someone else doing it to them is a fair thought. TPS thinks so also.

Furthermore, the perp(s) could have purposely banged up Honey more than Barry to make it look that much more *like* a M/S.
 
  • #953
A taller, bigger man can always overpower a woman. Women do not have the power in their fists as men do, nor do they have any experience of punching.
This is a ridiculous statement, IMO.
 
  • #954
The pompous earring, broken in 2 parts and found outside only some time after the gruesome incident, makes no sense, neither regarding M/S nor D/M - IMO. I don't see a reason.

I don't believe the earring has been said to belong to Honey. Also wasn't it found in the street by newspeople? It could have belonged to anyone.
 
  • #955
I don't believe the earring has been said to belong to Honey. Also wasn't it found in the street by newspeople? It could have belonged to anyone.

Yes, AFAIK found by newspeople but I see no reason for a "fake-discovery" when there is no further reporting about stuff like that or the more important investigation.
I also thought we had found a pic of Honey with her wearing earrings like that one. Thought, I for my part found a pic but I didn't save it and now I'm too lazy for a time-consuming second search.
IF the fancy earring, looking like Honey's earring, indeed belonged to someone other and was found after a gruesome M/S or double murder (which doesn't happen every day) around the end of the driveway leading towards the "murder home"/crime scene - now, that would be an odd fact, IMO.
Either way, it doesn't help the investigation. ;)
 
  • #956
YES!!!! Andreww:
People have to understand the great philanthropist Barry Sherman. The press may have painted him as a generous caring person, but in truth I believe that every single one of those donations came with a price tag. Sherman & Co. know exactly how to use money to get what they want. We are talking about having access to police chiefs, mayors, premiers, and prime ministers. People will dance for money, don't kid yourself. <modsnip>
 
  • #957
So is the garage door hooked up to the house alarm system? I doubt it, or every time Barry came home he would set off the alarm by opening the garage.

it would come with a remote, you could shut it off so that it doesn't set off the house alarm Id think.
 
  • #958
JDG, so you're saying the case will be solved, it wont go cold, and that LE has a list of POI, right?

You seem to be close to the investigation, family friends, or have some kind of connection to the case.

If it goes cold, no new developments, no asking the public to identify POI in a video footage, still image, etc., etc., no arrests, no nothing, then it will mean they had the murderer from day one. JMHO

Ummm, andreww offered to eat his hat under certain circumstances. I was just suggesting he have a chocolate hat on hand.

Nothing more, nothing less.:cool:
 
  • #959
Sherman "had bankrolled the cousins&#8217; various business activities with millions of dollars for many years."
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sment-as-billion-dollar-appeal-continues.html
^^ Was Barry Sherman generous and caring when he bankrolled the cousins with millions of dollars over many years? Why would he have bothered to give the cousins a dime (or millions) if he didn't 'care'?

YES!!!! Andreww:
People have to understand the great philanthropist Barry Sherman. The press may have painted him as a generous caring person, but in truth I believe that every single one of those donations came with a price tag. Sherman & Co. know exactly how to use money to get what they want. We are talking about having access to police chiefs, mayors, premiers, and prime ministers. People will dance for money, don't kid yourself. <modsnip>

Barry Sherman&#8217;s cousin to undergo &#8216;disability&#8217; assessment as billion-dollar appeal continues

Kerry Winter, cousin of murdered billionaire Barry Sherman, will be assessed to determine if he has a mental &#8220;disability&#8221; that would prevent him from representing himself in an ongoing case to claim a share of the Apotex founder&#8217;s riches.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sment-as-billion-dollar-appeal-continues.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sment-as-billion-dollar-appeal-continues.html
Ontario Superior Court Justice Kenneth Hood, in his September 2017 ruling, called it &#8220;wishful thinking&#8221; that the cousins were owed money by Sherman, who had bankrolled the cousins&#8217; various business activities with millions of dollars for many years.
 
  • #960
Sherman "had bankrolled the cousins&#8217; various business activities with millions of dollars for many years."
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sment-as-billion-dollar-appeal-continues.html
^^ Was Barry Sherman generous and caring when he bankrolled the cousins with millions of dollars over many years? Why would he have bothered to give the cousins a dime (or millions) if he didn't 'care'?




https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sment-as-billion-dollar-appeal-continues.html
Ontario Superior Court Justice Kenneth Hood, in his September 2017 ruling, called it &#8220;wishful thinking&#8221; that the cousins were owed money by Sherman, who had bankrolled the cousins&#8217; various business activities with millions of dollars for many years.

Just because Barry Sherman won in court, it does not mean he was right, just that he may have had better lawyers. And I don't know how many "millions" he bankrolled the cousins, but that seems to be a small pittance compared to the value of the company he seems to have stolen from them, don't you think?
 
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