Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #7

[miele.m]

Grey-St
You actually made me smile and chuckle tonight (which I rather enjoyed) when you said I am basically implicating Kerry.
Kerry and I go way back (April 2018) and i’m his biggest fan on here. Lol

I admire Kerry for his candidness, rawness, authenticity, transparency and high visibility.
Kerry isn’t hiding out somewhere, he is speaking his truth and not through paid lawyers used to abuse the courts of law as his cousin did.

I admire Kerry because he has taken on a beast by suing for 20% of a company that he and his brothers are entitled to, and that were ousted out of by their duplicitous two faced cheating scamming first cousin. Kerry is doing things the legal way. He is holding people accountable.
He didn’t ‘whack’ anybody. I admire his restraint.
If this was done within another community that comes to mind , I guarantee you shysters like this wouldn’t get off so easy.

I’m really looking forward to finding out who the assassins could possibly be.
My time on here sleuthing, reading and responding to posts would only be worth it if there were actual real assassins.

<modsnip>

Someone did beat up Honey, she was found face down in her own blood, contusions on her face and nose and she had put up a fight. She was then strangled with something, a ligature, and/or a belt was used to hang her on railing. That to me defines a beating, maybe I need a dictionary?

Found in Pool of blood, contusions on her face, put up a fight, neck strangled with a ligature and then hung with a belt on a a railing absolutely isn’t a pampering, if not a beating what is it?

Most of the times it’s a domestic partner or family member who kill their loved ones.
When investigations are conducted the other spouse is the first suspect, then other close family, then friends, then business associates,
And whoever had the easiest opportunity to do it.

Law enforcement stated she put up a fight, found in pool of blood, contusions on face, strangled and hung on railing.

The only one sitting next to her that night was Barry.
He may have done it.

Husbands do this all the time. Why wouldn’t we consider this?
In heat of a bad domestic fight?
This happens every minute of every day.

Was he wife beater? No. Did he physically abuse her before, No.
Could he have possibly lost his temper that night and done so? YES. Honey was found bloodied with contusions and defends wounds possibly.

I wonder why no one has discussed the forensic evidence
UNDER HER FINGERNAILS or on her hands.
What was that evidence?

Someone DID beat up honey.
Unless there is a different definition of beat up I’m not aware of?

Either her domestic partner who was with her that night who had the opportunity to do so or an Assassin for another motive who intruded in the house to do so.

Isn’t that why we are trying to decipher here on this forum?

We don’t hear of any blood on Barry or contusions from defence wounds. That’s important information too.

 

[matou]

I agree that possible absence of defense injuries on Barry Sherman is strange. I am also curious about which ligature caused the actual death and how this was determined. Are there drag marks on the floor of the pool? This would show up somehow, even without the presence of blood. What about fingerprints on the belts? Did the perp(s) use gloves to attach the belts? That would seem difficult to do. Is it at all possible that BM tried to hang himself with a rope and was unsuccessful, then used his own belt to complete his own hanging next to his wife? I am not doubting the finding of Dr. Chiasson. If prior ligature marks were present than this is fact. It is possible that BM was the responsible person though? If someone wanted them dead, why not present the deaths as an obvious double murder? Blood and all. This seems too clean to me. People who hate leave a mess. We've seen this over and over again.

 

[JDG]

I agree that possible absence of defense injuries on Barry Sherman is strange. I am also curious about which ligature caused the actual death and how this was determined. Are there drag marks on the floor of the pool? This would show up somehow, even without the presence of blood. What about fingerprints on the belts? Did the perp(s) use gloves to attach the belts? That would seem difficult to do. Is it at all possible that BM tried to hang himself with a rope and was unsuccessful, then used his own belt to complete his own hanging next to his wife? I am not doubting the finding of Dr. Chiasson. If prior ligature marks were present than this is fact. It is possible that BM was the responsible person though? If someone wanted them dead, why not present the deaths as an obvious double murder? Blood and all. This seems too clean to me. People who hate leave a mess. We've seen this over and over again.

Medical gloves allow you to have dexterity and they would prevent fingerprints. They would also prevent the perp from having DNA from the victims under their finger nails if caught.

 

[ldlager]

In Toronto, based on what I have seen, it is usually the fire trucks that arrive first on the scene after a 911 call for medical assistance. Then paramedics often arrive. Then the police. One thing I haven&#8217;t heard mentioned anywhere is if fire or parameds were the first on scene at the Sherman&#8217;s. It has been reported that the Sherman 911 call required assistance for a medical incident. It probably means nothing, but does anyone recall any reference to fire or paramedics arriving at the Sherman house? Just curious.

 

[matou]

There should be evidence of footprints of the perp(s) around the pool area based on moisture from the pool. I wonder if anything was found? Did the perp(s) wear little shoe covers to place the bodies on the railing? Was this so planed that there is virtually no evidence of other people in that pool area near the bodies until first responders arrived?

 

[JDG]

In Toronto, based on what I have seen, it is usually the fire trucks that arrive first on the scene after a 911 call for medical assistance. Then paramedics often arrive. Then the police. One thing I haven&#8217;t heard mentioned anywhere is if fire or parameds were the first on scene at the Sherman&#8217;s. It has been reported that the Sherman 911 call required assistance for a medical incident. It probably means nothing, but does anyone recall any reference to fire or paramedics arriving at the Sherman house? Just curious.

yep, all three were dispatched right away. The local fire station is on York Mills at Bayview, so depending on where the patrolling cruisers were, Id guess Fire got there first. And, you are right...its often fire that arrives first.

Matou, I wonder if the pool and hot tub had been drained as the Shermans were about to go to Florida?
The pool/hot tub covers were over them but they could have been empty to keep the humidity down?
Having never had an indoor pool, Im not sure. just a thought

 

[JDG]

There should be evidence of footprints of the perp(s) around the pool area based on moisture from the pool. I wonder if anything was found? Did the perp(s) wear little shoe covers to place the bodies on the railing? Was this so planed that there is virtually no evidence of other people in that pool area near the bodies until first responders arrived?

I was going to say, medical booties would help too.

All are easy to come by.

 

[SeesSeas]

In Toronto, based on what I have seen, it is usually the fire trucks that arrive first on the scene after a 911 call for medical assistance. Then paramedics often arrive. Then the police. One thing I haven’t heard mentioned anywhere is if fire or parameds were the first on scene at the Sherman’s. It has been reported that the Sherman 911 call required assistance for a medical incident. It probably means nothing, but does anyone recall any reference to fire or paramedics arriving at the Sherman house? Just curious.

This is what The Star reported, although no indication of who arrived when:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...d-from-murder-suicide-to-double-homicide.html
[FONT=&quot]Tues., May 8, 2018[/FONT]
Meanwhile, the housekeeper called 911. Toronto Police 911 system records a call coming in at 11:43 a.m. Police were en route by 11:44 a.m. Toronto EMS told the Star they dispatched two paramedic crews and a supervisor at the same time.

 

[dotr]

I was going to say, medical booties would help too.

All are easy to come by.

There is this..
https://www.pksafety.com/kimberly-clark-kleenguard-a60-coverall-with-hood.html

KLEENGUARD A60 Bloodborne Pathogen Protection Coveralls

 

[matou]

This could be the most pristine crime scene ever, in winter to boot. Was anything ever found in the sewer pipes outside? Was the pool drained and checked? Accessing the home while it was potentially being viewed by buyers was beyond risky. Even people who were thinking about buying the home could have driven by it to just to look at the home.

 

[matou]

Did the Sherman's salt their sidewalks and driveway?

 

[miele.m]

I agree that possible absence of defense injuries on Barry Sherman is strange. I am also curious about which ligature caused the actual death and how this was determined. Are there drag marks on the floor of the pool? This would show up somehow, even without the presence of blood. What about fingerprints on the belts? Did the perp(s) use gloves to attach the belts? That would seem difficult to do. Is it at all possible that BM tried to hang himself with a rope and was unsuccessful, then used his own belt to complete his own hanging next to his wife? I am not doubting the finding of Dr. Chiasson. If prior ligature marks were present than this is fact. It is possible that BM was the responsible person though? If someone wanted them dead, why not present the deaths as an obvious double murder? Blood and all. This seems too clean to me. People who hate leave a mess. We've seen this over and over again.

Agreed. They would have left a bloody messy.

You know how much work went into this?
I see hours of work here into the middle of the dark night.
You know how much risk of being caught on any hidden cameras presents itself in that house?
Or neighbours cameras that can point inadvertently at the house providing video footage.
Where is that footage? Any suspects on the footage?

As I sit here typing this, I’ve got cameras from neighbours in all directions recording me by default.

Cameras inadvertently point to my home from all directions. Loads of home owners have cameras where I live. My home is worth about a small fraction of old colony home.
Are you telling me no neighbours there have cameras or dash cams with any footage of potential Suspects?


When entering the old colony home the potential Assassins would not know what’s a camera or a simple fixture these days and they would not waste hours in a 12,000 square foot home trying to find out where all the cameras are.

Only a close family would know what sort of risk the cameras present and where they are and how to shut them off and unplug any recordings and destroy anything saved to hard drives.

Where are the suspects foot prints? What about footprints in the snow and mud outside?
Where are their vehicle plate numbers from cameras in the area?

Neighbours cameras? Dash cams? Street light cameras?
Any assassin/s would be risking so much time trying not to get caught and not knowing what they were dealing within and around that house.


If they were non family Assassins they would most likely quickly shoot them in another location where they had more control of their external environment. Or if they do break in
they would shoot, kill and get out fast. Not hang out cleaning and containing the crime scene.

Outside Assassins don’t care where in the home they kill you or if your home is a bloody mess.

The perp/s here DID CARE about keeping it contained, neat and tidy and cared about keeping the house in fairly clean good shape and keeping the bodies in the coldest part of the home.
They cared most likely because they had a vested interest in that home, whether they perp/s was dead or alive today, they had a vested interest in making sure the Home didn’t lose its value with dead bodies and blood in upstairs area and smell of decomposition. Putting bodies in the pool area
means to me you care about the house and keeping it clean and the bodies cold until found.


This crime scene was ‘too contained’ ‘too clean’
‘too careful’ ‘too calculated’ and too much ‘care’ went into it.

Outside Assassins don’t care.

 

[JDG]

Did the Sherman's salt their sidewalks and driveway?

In that price range, I'd expect to find the sloping driveway heated, as well as the parking pads out front.

Low maintenance. Selling feature.

 

[matou]

The overnight of Dec 13th into the 14th (possible date of death of the Sherman's) was extremely cold. Minus 27 with windchill.

http://www.bttoronto.ca/videos/morning-weather-webcast-dec-13-2017/

 

[matou]

Wouldn't the pool area be the hottest room in the house?

 

[miele.m]

There is this..
https://www.pksafety.com/kimberly-clark-kleenguard-a60-coverall-with-hood.html

Lol.

Great visual.

 

[JDG]

Agreed. They would have left a bloody messy.

You know how much work went into this?
I see hours of work here into the middle of the dark night.
You know how much risk of being caught on any hidden cameras presents itself in that house?
Or neighbours cameras that can point inadvertently at the house providing video footage.
Where is that footage? Any suspects on the footage?

As I sit here typing this, I&#8217;ve got cameras from neighbours in all directions recording me by default.

Cameras inadvertently point to my home from all directions. Loads of home owners have cameras where I live. My home is worth about a small fraction of old colony home.
Are you telling me no neighbours there have cameras or dash cams with any footage of potential Suspects?


When entering the old colony home the potential Assassins would not know what&#8217;s a camera or a simple fixture these days and they would not waste hours in a 12,000 square foot home trying to find out where all the cameras are.

Only a close family would know what sort of risk the cameras present and where they are and how to shut them off and unplug any recordings and destroy anything saved to hard drives.

Where are the suspects foot prints? What about footprints in the snow and mud outside?
Where are their vehicle plate numbers from cameras in the area?

Neighbours cameras? Dash cams? Street light cameras?
Any assassin/s would be risking so much time trying not to get caught and not knowing what they were dealing within and around that house.


If they were non family Assassins they would most likely quickly shoot them in another location where they had more control of their external environment. Or if they do break in
they would shoot, kill and get out fast. Not hang out cleaning and containing the crime scene.

Outside Assassins don&#8217;t care where in the home they kill you or if your home is a bloody mess.

The perp/s here DID CARE about keeping it contained, neat and tidy and cared about keeping the house in fairly clean good shape and keeping the bodies in the coldest part of the home.
They cared most likely because they had a vested interest in that home, whether they perp/s was dead or alive today, they had a vested interest in making sure the Home didn&#8217;t lose its value with dead bodies and blood in upstairs area and smell of decomposition. Putting bodies in the pool area
means to me you care about the house and keeping it clean and the bodies cold until found.


This crime scene was &#8216;too contained&#8217; &#8216;too clean&#8217;
&#8216;too careful&#8217; &#8216;too calculated&#8217; and too much &#8216;care&#8217; went into it.

Outside Assassins don&#8217;t care.

From what Ive read, the Sherman children want to tear it down. Its not worth any more than the land value if thats true.

If BS is the killer who suicided, why would he care? He's going to be dead shortly, there are cleaning crews who can fix it up after a M/S or M/M?

 

[BUF]

In that price range, I'd expect to find the sloping driveway heated, as well as the parking pads out front.

Low maintenance. Selling feature.

Yes, IIRC the driveway was heated.

 

[JDG]

O/T A home in our area sold a few years back and the windows do not open and the sloping driveway isn't heated. Someone paid wayyyy too much for that crackerjack house. lol

 

[matou]

Were Barry Sherman's glasses on his face when he was found?