Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[human]

Barry would have a team to clean, pack, etc , everything in his home. He had all of the money in the world to take care of his new housewhich would be closer to his needs and still in the same city.

It would be accessible instead of the stairs that they had in their present home.

Downsizing only matters because when you age, you do not want to take care of so much space. Barry had people to do any cleaning or whatever was needed.

I see no downside to his move. And as far as the money, what did it matter to him. He wasted it on silly schemes that did not come to fruition. He liked to experiment with his money.

He was rich. How much is one billion again, exactly. That will give the idea of rich

 

[Satchie]

It's so hard in these kinds of cases to discuss motive, since it seems to me whoever killed or arranged for these deaths doesn't think like the rest of us.

I always remember the remark "It was just a truck, a stupid truck".

 

[MistyWaters]

Barry would have a team to clean, pack, etc , everything in his home. He had all of the money in the world to take care of his new housewhich would be closer to his needs and still in the same city.

It would be accessible instead of the stairs that they had in their present home.

Downsizing only matters because when you age, you do not want to take care of so much space. Barry had people to do any cleaning or whatever was needed.

I see no downside to his move. And as far as the money, what did it matter to him. He wasted it on silly schemes that did not come to fruition. He liked to experiment with his money.

He was rich. How much is one billion again, exactly. That will give the idea of rich

I totally agree, the common reason for seniors not wanting to move is quite different than what we know of the Shermans’ personal situation. Downsizing becomes the practical option when maintenance and other costs associated costs become too great, income is reduced and the primary asset is the equity in a home. In those cases, why seniors might despise the idea of moving is because of the relationship to the reality of aging can represent loss of independence.

Besides, from what we know to date, I don’t get the impression Barry Sherman was the type of workaholic guy who formed a deep attachment to his home. If he did, and “Barry hated Honey”, it just doesn’t follow that he agreed to sign listing for the existing home.

All very true, but on the other side of the coin there are plenty of elderly people that despise the idea of moving. As their new home was still in the planning stage, and their current home was already on the market, There would likely be an interim home as well. Possibly Barry was at the stage in life where he thought he should be simplifying and downsizing, whilst Honey was concerned about expanding and becoming more elaborate?

All I am saying is that if this is a murder/suicide, the fact that it happened within hours of meeting with the architect about the new home, leads me to believe that this could very well have been the catalyst that lit the fuse.

Considering Barry Sherman’s tenacity for fighting battles in the courtroom and without making judgement, remember that just prior to the deaths the court ruling had gone in his favour regarding the long standing civil action by the Winter group, in addition to the judge awarding him litigation costs.

So contrary to the meeting with the architect possibly causing strife between the two, it’s entirely possible Barry became enthusiastically involved in initiating the construction of the new dream home along side with Honey, to celebrate moving onward to a new phase of their lives by enjoying their senior years in a new place.

 

[andreww]

Barry would have a team to clean, pack, etc , everything in his home. He had all of the money in the world to take care of his new housewhich would be closer to his needs and still in the same city.

It would be accessible instead of the stairs that they had in their present home.

Downsizing only matters because when you age, you do not want to take care of so much space. Barry had people to do any cleaning or whatever was needed.

I see no downside to his move. And as far as the money, what did it matter to him. He wasted it on silly schemes that did not come to fruition. He liked to experiment with his money.

He was rich. How much is one billion again, exactly. That will give the idea of rich

You've obviously never dealt with an elderly person that doesn't want to move then. I've been through it with my parents, multi millionaires to boot. My mom for years wanted to simplify their lives as maintaining a large home had become too much of a burden. My dad simply wouldn't have it, despite the tension it caused between them and the entire family. I have countless friends that are going through the same thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with money. Home is where they are comfortable, home is where the memories are.

 

[andreww]

I totally agree, the common reason for seniors not wanting to move is quite different than what we know of the Shermans’ personal situation. Downsizing becomes the practical option when maintenance and other costs associated costs become too great, income is reduced and the primary asset is the equity in a home. In those cases, why seniors might despise the idea of moving is because of the relationship to the reality of aging can represent loss of independence.

Besides, from what we know to date, I don’t get the impression Barry Sherman was the type of workaholic guy who formed a deep attachment to his home. If he did, and “Barry hated Honey”, it just doesn’t follow that he agreed to sign listing for the existing home.



Considering Barry Sherman’s tenacity for fighting battles in the courtroom and without making judgement, remember that just prior to the deaths the court ruling had gone in his favour regarding the long standing civil action by the Winter group, in addition to the judge awarding him litigation costs.

So contrary to the meeting with the architect possibly causing strife between the two, it’s entirely possible Barry became enthusiastically involved in initiating the construction of the new dream home along side with Honey, to celebrate moving onward to a new phase of their lives by enjoying their senior years in a new place.

Or, maybe he was forced in to doing it by a wife who was used to getting her way. Plenty of whipped husbands out there doing things they'd rather not just to maintain harmony.

 

[andreww]

It's so hard in these kinds of cases to discuss motive, since it seems to me whoever killed or arranged for these deaths doesn't think like the rest of us.

I always remember the remark "It was just a truck, a stupid truck".

Yes, and in that case people wanted to believe that Tim Bosma might have been involved in something that got him killed. People have a tendency not to believe the obvious, that someone would kill a man for a stupid truck.

In this case people don't want to believe that a rich husband lost his cool and killed his wife, then too the easy way out. But we'll see what happens. I don't foresee any conclusion to this case however.

 

[MistyWaters]

You've obviously never dealt with an elderly person that doesn't want to move then. I've been through it with my parents, multi millionaires to boot. My mom for years wanted to simplify their lives as maintaining a large home had become too much of a burden. My dad simply wouldn't have it, despite the tension it caused between them and the entire family. I have countless friends that are going through the same thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with money. Home is where they are comfortable, home is where the memories are.

That was sort of my point....”maintaining a large home can become a burden”. A burden to who? Most often it’s the view of the children that the large home has become a burden, real or otherwise. Meanwhile the parents perceive downsizing as loss of independence (and don’t appreciate their children taking over their decision making, rightly or wrongly).

It certainly didn’t appear to have become a burden to either of the Shermans considering they hired others for little things such as watering plants. Nor has it been stated their children were involved in influencing their decision although IIRC it was mentioned their dream home was located closer in proximity to their grandchildren.

 

[Satchie]

Yes, and in that case people wanted to believe that Tim Bosma might have been involved in something that got him killed. People have a tendency not to believe the obvious, that someone would kill a man for a stupid truck.

In this case people don't want to believe that a rich husband lost his cool and killed his wife, then too the easy way out. But we'll see what happens. I don't foresee any conclusion to this case however.

I think there's also many cases where a suicidal person takes others out with them. There might not be any kind of 'trigger' that can be explained rationally. It might be that they haven't slept for days.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, and in that case people wanted to believe that Tim Bosma might have been involved in something that got him killed. People have a tendency not to believe the obvious, that someone would kill a man for a stupid truck.

In this case people don't want to believe that a rich husband lost his cool and killed his wife, then too the easy way out. But we'll see what happens. I don't foresee any conclusion to this case however.

Are you referring to social media speculating that Bosma was involved in something that got him killed? Because LE had received tips that drew their attention to Millard early on.

Canadian law gives TPS the option of ruling the manner of death to be Undetermined if the evidence of homicide was questionable or if they viewed the findings of Greenspan’s team to be overly biased. But they didn’t - it was ruled a double homicide after all alternatives were investigated. For a large municipal police force to intentionally put unsolved murders on their books for any high profile citizens just to protect the reputation of suicide victims, just can’t see a reason for that happening. It’d require a very large conspiracy involving too many people. IMO

 

[Grey-St]

What it shows is that Barry isn't the docile, loving husband that the press made him out to be. The fact that he would even consider something like that, and that he would take it so far as to contact another person about it, simply tells you what he was capable of. I definitely believe that Honey's death was related to the upcoming move and the meeting with the architect. I highly doubt that a guy like Barry, who had no problem driving around in cheap old cars, was on board with upgrading to an even larger luxury mansion than he already had. I think he came home, put his foot down, then it escalated.

It's difficult for me to see how the press has made him out to be some "docile, loving husband". That's not the impression I have at least. I don't really have any impression on their relationship or how either of them were as a wife or husband. I simply believe they were both murdered.

 

[Grey-St]

If money was so important that he would not want to spend it on a new house, does it make sense that he would give millions to people who would totally waste it?

He could make sure the drug users got a bad batch. Who would care if a drug user died from bad drugs

I hope you're speaking hypothetically, because I sure would care .

Also, I miss the plethora of emojis.

 

[human]

You've obviously never dealt with an elderly person that doesn't want to move then. I've been through it with my parents, multi millionaires to boot. My mom for years wanted to simplify their lives as maintaining a large home had become too much of a burden. My dad simply wouldn't have it, despite the tension it caused between them and the entire family. I have countless friends that are going through the same thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with money. Home is where they are comfortable, home is where the memories are.

My mother did not want to leave the home that my father redid over the decades with his own hands. It was a work of his love. Hardly the same as the Sherman home which was built by builders and was a home where they had to sue the comtractors in order to repair the mistakes. That would leave a sour taste.

He was rarely home in that house, was he? I cannot see him attached to a house. I wonder if helped to pick out the furnishings, etc. It seems like he would be at the office where his real love was.

 

[human]

I hope you're speaking hypothetically, because I sure would care .

Also, I miss the plethora of emojis.

Barry spent big money on some very foolish things. Giving money to that con man that went to prison. That is one thing. The other was the failed buisnesses of his good friend.

It seems like Barry did not minding spending money on some tenuous type of experiments.

 

[hudunit]

I have mentioned before that Honey had not changed clothes when she got home.Another significant thing to me is that she parked her car outside in the driveway.Barry's car was in the garage.It was cold that night and I would have parked inside unless I was planning to go out again that night.

 

[andreww]

Are you referring to social media speculating that Bosma was involved in something that got him killed? Because LE had received tips that drew their attention to Millard early on.

Canadian law gives TPS the option of ruling the manner of death to be Undetermined if the evidence of homicide was questionable or if they viewed the findings of Greenspan’s team to be overly biased. But they didn’t - it was ruled a double homicide after all alternatives were investigated. For a large municipal police force to intentionally put unsolved murders on their books for any high profile citizens just to protect the reputation of suicide victims, just can’t see a reason for that happening. It’d require a very large conspiracy involving too many people. IMO

I was referring to webslueths and social media. In the very early hours following his disappearance there were lots of theories that involved Tim Bosma being involved in some sort of drug dealings.

As for what police do, I recall the case of the teacher from Whitby who disappeared, Jeff Boucher. Police tried to suggest suicide but the family wouldn't have it. They found his body exactly where they figured they'd find it, in the lake. He was supposed to go to work that day, instead he ran to the lake, which would not have allowed him time to run back home and get to work on time, so obviously he never intended on going to work. Yet police ruled his death as "death by misadventure". Sometime police will cover things up.

<modsnip>

 

[andreww]

I have mentioned before that Honey had not changed clothes when she got home.Another significant thing to me is that she parked her car outside in the driveway.Barry's car was in the garage.It was cold that night and I would have parked inside unless I was planning to go out again that night.

Possibly, but we really don't have the facts. If Honey wore a business suit to that meeting, then yes it would be odd. However, if she wore jeans and a sweater, it would not be odd that she remained in those clothes. As for the car, many people leave their cars outside simply because they are too lazy to put them in the garage. Some people just don't care. So unless we know that she was in the habit of garaging her car, it means nothing.

 

[andreww]

It's difficult for me to see how the press has made him out to be some "docile, loving husband". That's not the impression I have at least. I don't really have any impression on their relationship or how either of them were as a wife or husband. I simply believe they were both murdered.

In the days following, there were quotes from friends about how much they loved each other, how he adored her, etc., and what a generous person he was.

 

[human]

I have mentioned before that Honey had not changed clothes when she got home.Another significant thing to me is that she parked her car outside in the driveway.Barry's car was in the garage.It was cold that night and I would have parked inside unless I was planning to go out again that night.

Parking in front is strange except didn’t she have some kind of issues with mobility?

 

[ldlager]

Parking in front is strange except didn’t she have some kind of issues with mobility?

Exactly. Parking in the garage would have involved climbing the stairs from the basement. She parked very near the "secondary" walkway to access the front door.

 

[ldlager]

You've obviously never dealt with an elderly person that doesn't want to move then. I've been through it with my parents, multi millionaires to boot. My mom for years wanted to simplify their lives as maintaining a large home had become too much of a burden. My dad simply wouldn't have it, despite the tension it caused between them and the entire family. I have countless friends that are going through the same thing. It has absolutely nothing to do with money. Home is where they are comfortable, home is where the memories are.

Andreww, no disrespect intended, but did you fear that your mother was at risk from your father because of his unwillingness to move? If the theory is that Barry just "snapped" because of his unwillingness to deal with a move, then couldn't this also have happened in the case of your parents, especially if the situation had already caused them "tension" as you have indicated.