Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[SeesSeas]

Floorplans for the home where the bodies were found.

http://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

Exactly. Parking in the garage would have involved climbing the stairs from the basement. She parked very near the "secondary" walkway to access the front door.

The home floorplan shows LIFT on all three levels.
Isn't a LIFT an ELEVATOR?
She would have taken the LIFT instead of climbing stairs.

 

[human]

The home floorplan shows LIFT on all three levels.
Isn't a LIFT an ELEVATOR?
She would have taken the LIFT instead of climbing stairs.

Was the lift ever installed?

 

[Satchie]

I think the major enticement for garaging a car in winter is no need to remove snow or frost. Although perhaps she just turned the car on to warm up for 15 minutes before she went anywhere.

 

[ldlager]

The home floorplan shows LIFT on all three levels.
Isn't a LIFT an ELEVATOR?
She would have taken the LIFT instead of climbing stairs.

This was discussed early on.. The "lift" was in fact a small space, perhaps to be used as a sort of dumbwaiter. It was not an elevator for people to use, the space was too small.

 

[SeesSeas]

Was the lift ever installed?

This was discussed early on.. The "lift" was in fact a small space, perhaps to be used as a sort of dumbwaiter. It was not an elevator for people to use, the space was too small.

I recall early discussion and the realtor listing noting "Potential for Elevator"
50 Old Colony Rd, Toronto, Ontario, M2L2K1, Canada GTA House Detached property for sale - toronto-condos.org
but I always thought that meant for a real elevator; that a larger space could be utilized.
The lift space is small, but small is common for a LIFT, as in this video:
The video shows the Stiltz Home Lift - a prestigious Australian-designed through-floor Lift providing home-friendly access for those in need of a safe and non-invasive alternative to stairs.

Very small lift, yet two adults fit in the lift.

1:17 shows man entering lift from garage after parking his vehicle.

I can’t imagine having a LIFT space in a multi-level mansion without utilizing the numerous practical advantages of actually having a LIFT.

 

[human]

I think the major enticement for garaging a car in winter is no need to remove snow or frost. Although perhaps she just turned the car on to warm up for 15 minutes before she went anywhere.

And she probably had staff to prepare her care for leaving

 

[ldlager]

I recall early discussion and the realtor listing noting "Potential for Elevator"
50 Old Colony Rd, Toronto, Ontario, M2L2K1, Canada GTA House Detached property for sale - toronto-condos.org
but I always thought that meant for a real elevator; that a larger space could be utilized.
The lift space is small, but small is common for a LIFT, as in this video:
The video shows the Stiltz Home Lift - a prestigious Australian-designed through-floor Lift providing home-friendly access for those in need of a safe and non-invasive alternative to stairs.

Very small lift, yet two adults fit in the lift.

1:17 shows man entering lift from garage after parking his vehicle.

I can’t imagine having a LIFT space in a multi-level mansion without utilizing the numerous practical advantages of actually having a LIFT.

I know but there was no operating lift according to the listing.
Thanks for posting the listing- I had never seen these listing pics. Note the last picture of the room with the glass table. I believe in the top left hand corner where the ceiling and wall meet I believe there is a motion detector for the alarm system. I don’t see one in any of the other pictures. In the second last picture to the left of the piano there is a white box low on the wall. Could this be a detector, or a light switch? The light switches are so low on the walls in this house, I don’t know why.

 

[ldlager]

I recall early discussion and the realtor listing noting "Potential for Elevator"
50 Old Colony Rd, Toronto, Ontario, M2L2K1, Canada GTA House Detached property for sale - toronto-condos.org
but I always thought that meant for a real elevator; that a larger space could be utilized.
The lift space is small, but small is common for a LIFT, as in this video:
The video shows the Stiltz Home Lift - a prestigious Australian-designed through-floor Lift providing home-friendly access for those in need of a safe and non-invasive alternative to stairs.

Very small lift, yet two adults fit in the lift.

1:17 shows man entering lift from garage after parking his vehicle.

I can’t imagine having a LIFT space in a multi-level mansion without utilizing the numerous practical advantages of actually having a LIFT.

I can’t imagine the lift in the video would pass code here- there is no door, looks dangerous to me- so easy to get a hand or foot caught!

 

[ldlager]

And she probably had staff to prepare her care for leaving

 

[dotr]

I can’t imagine the lift in the video would pass code here- there is no door, looks dangerous to me- so easy to get a hand or foot caught!

Also does not look like there would be enough room for a person using a wheelchair.imo.

 

[SeesSeas]

I can’t imagine the lift in the video would pass code here- there is no door, looks dangerous to me- so easy to get a hand or foot caught!

It appears to have safety features similar to sensors on automatic garage doors and gates. Those have entrapped people and animals!
https://www.stiltzlifts.com/how-safe-is-a-stiltz-home-elevator/
All residential elevators by Stiltz include top and bottom safety pans which tell the user if there is an obstruction. If the sensor kicks in, the lift will stop, to allow the person operating the lift to remove the obstruction safely. The passenger is in total control when using the elevator as the lift can only move up or down by using the hold-to-run controls. This pressure activated push-pad gives you total control over the lift."

 

[Tamerlan]

I remember reading somewhere that once the Old Colony Rd house was listed for sale, Shermans moved to a different location where they intended to reside until their new house would be ready. I cannot find that article anymore, so no link. But if true, that may explain no change of clothes and the car parked on a driveway.

 

[ldlager]

As I keep thinking about this case I am starting to ponder the possibility that perhaps Honey was the real target of the killers. Barry may have been killed because he may have arrived at the house first, and they were in fact waiting for Honey. The fact that she evidently had been beaten on the face and the head, and Barry evidently wasn't beaten, has started to make me wonder. I acknowledge that Barry seemingly had more potential enemies than did Honey, but based on some postings here, and private comments from some other people in the community, I'm starting to wonder if Honey was as beloved and well liked as she has been portrayed to date. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

As I keep thinking about this case I am starting to ponder the possibility that perhaps Honey was the real target of the killers. Barry may have been killed because he may have arrived at the house first, and they were in fact waiting for Honey. The fact that she evidently had been beaten on the face and the head, and Barry evidently wasn't beaten, has started to make me wonder. I acknowledge that Barry seemingly had more potential enemies than did Honey, but based on some postings here, and private comments from some other people in the community, I'm not convinced that Honey was as beloved and well liked as she has been portrayed to date. JMO

It’s going to the lengths of staging a double suicide that’s unusual. It appears the perp/s thought they could get away with murder by making it appear a suicide or murder/suicide and the death file would be closed. Sure, it happens that people are murdered by their enemies but the unsuccessful staging imo sets the tone their were both targeted by person/s who were unfamiliar with how methodical medical and crime scene forensics have become.

I think I speak for all of us when I write that murdering people is absolutely an unthinkable course of action but also repositioning dead bodies.....pure and simple, that enters maniac, total wacko, insane territory in my books. Anyone so evil wouldn’t hesitate to do it again and therefore I hope LE is close to an arrest.

 

[WINDSOR]

It’s going to the lengths of staging a double suicide that’s unusual. It appears the perp/s thought they could get away with murder by making it appear a suicide or murder/suicide and the death file would be closed. Sure, it happens that people are murdered by their enemies but the unsuccessful staging imo sets the tone their were both targeted by person/s who were unfamiliar with how methodical medical and crime scene forensics have become.

I think I speak for all of us when I write that murdering people is absolutely an unthinkable course of action but also repositioning dead bodies.....pure and simple, that enters maniac, total wacko, insane territory in my books. Anyone so evil wouldn’t hesitate to do it again and therefore I hope LE is close to an arrest.

I am not sure the perpetrators had any intention of staging the bodies to look like a double suicide or a murder/suicide. The whole suicide scenario is based on opinions, and not based in forensic evidence.

The perpetrators were confident enough in their expertise that staging a false scenario was not their intention. The fact they have not been arrested so many months later points to their escape abilities. The bodies were staged to send a message and to make a specific statement , and had nothing to do with suicide.

Questions that will solve this crime.
*** Who benefits? Either in a tangible way or in some other way such as revenge.
*** Who was the message from the body staging, for?
*** Where is the money? As in, follow the money.
*** Who was really really angry with the Shermans, and could afford to pay to kill them?

 

[MistyWaters]

I am not sure the perpetrators had any intention of staging the bodies to look like a double suicide or a murder/suicide. The whole suicide scenario is based on opinions, and not based in forensic evidence.

The perpetrators were confident enough in their expertise that staging a false scenario was not their intention. The fact they have not been arrested so many months later points to their escape abilities. The bodies were staged to send a message and to make a specific statement , and had nothing to do with suicide.

Questions that will solve this crime.
*** Who benefits? Either in a tangible way or in some other way such as revenge.
*** Who was the message from the body staging, for?
*** Where is the money? As in, follow the money.
*** Who was really really angry with the Shermans, and could afford to pay to kill them?

You could be right although I can’t think of any single message positioning of bodies would reveal beyond the horror of death itself.

Why I lean towards a staged suicide or staged murder/suicide was intended to not pass close scrutiny, a couple reasons...

Just prior to the Sherman murders, there were a couple of other wrongly ruled Ontario cases that suddenly came to light, only deemed to be murder because the perps later drew suspicion to themselves. One was an almost unbelievable, horrific case involving the murder of Caleb Harrison and in turn the earlier deaths of both of his parents.
Mississauga mom and her spouse found guilty of first-degree murder in killing of ex-husband | The Star
The other example of course is Wayne Millard’s death, originally ruled a suicide. Maybe these examples just happened to come to notice coincidently but it sure makes me wonder how many other murders are being written off as suicide or accidental death, either due to shoddy investigation, overworked police forces, poor training or purely because no evidence of foul play was found.

I’d never heard of suicide by hanging by a belt until the death of Robin Williams when it was splashed all over by the media. I recall a huge amount of curiosity about it at the time. Up until then, I had absolutely no idea hanging could occur without feet dangling off the ground. I’m not familiar with the movie referred to that RW acted in, where this manner of suicide was used, but I think it’s fair to say most people would definitely associate suicide by belt to Robin Williams because of the high level of media reporting about it.
Robin Williams’ death: Iconic comedian’s death officially ruled suicide

Robin Williams was also close to the same ago as the Shermans as well. (Were the Shermans fans? In that same age group, chances are, or maybe it’d be presumed?). In staging a suicide with belts, was it thought the same method would pass scrutiny, not requiring a great deal of physical agility, perhaps originally intended for their murder to be perceived as a peaceful togetherness death pact? I just wonder.

 

[andreww]

Andreww, no disrespect intended, but did you fear that your mother was at risk from your father because of his unwillingness to move? If the theory is that Barry just "snapped" because of his unwillingness to deal with a move, then couldn't this also have happened in the case of your parents, especially if the situation had already caused them "tension" as you have indicated.

Yes I did actually. He was never physically abusive, but he was becoming more verbally abusive and I feared it might escalate. Dementia is a tough thing to deal with, for all involved.

 

[ldlager]

It’s a stretch I know, but with no news I admit that I am thinking outside of the box here. If the hanging was meant to send a message, the scene, when viewed from above (legs outstretched in front, bodies suspended from a railing) would perhaps look perhaps like the letter "F", with the legs of the bodies being the horizontal lines, and the vertical line being the railing. Or, also viewed from above, the scene could resemble the traditional Chai symbol, which I often see worn by Jewish men around their neck as part of a necklace. Their legs would represent vertical parts of the symbol like this:

Again, just a WAG at this point!

 

[casesensitive]

Yes I did actually. He was never physically abusive, but he was becoming more verbally abusive and I feared it might escalate. Dementia is a tough thing to deal with, for all involved.

Yes, dementia is a tough thing to deal with, and I am sorry that your father suffered from it. Are you thinking that BS had dementia, and was therefore, more liable to "snap" over the house move?

 

[andreww]

You could be right although I can’t think of any single message positioning of bodies would reveal beyond the horror of death itself.

Why I lean towards a staged suicide or staged murder/suicide was intended to not pass close scrutiny, a couple reasons...

Just prior to the Sherman murders, there were a couple of other wrongly ruled Ontario cases that suddenly came to light, only deemed to be murder because the perps later drew suspicion to themselves. One was an almost unbelievable, horrific case involving the murder of Caleb Harrison and in turn the earlier deaths of both of his parents.
Mississauga mom and her spouse found guilty of first-degree murder in killing of ex-husband | The Star
The other example of course is Wayne Millard’s death, originally ruled a suicide. Maybe these examples just happened to come to notice coincidently but it sure makes me wonder how many other murders are being written off as suicide or accidental death, either due to shoddy investigation, overworked police forces, poor training or purely because no evidence of foul play was found.

I’d never heard of suicide by hanging by a belt until the death of Robin Williams when it was splashed all over by the media. I recall a huge amount of curiosity about it at the time. Up until then, I had absolutely no idea hanging could occur without feet dangling off the ground. I’m not familiar with the movie referred to that RW acted in, where this manner of suicide was used, but I think it’s fair to say most people would definitely associate suicide by belt to Robin Williams because of the high level of media reporting about it.
Robin Williams’ death: Iconic comedian’s death officially ruled suicide

Robin Williams was also close to the same ago as the Shermans as well. (Were the Shermans fans? In that same age group, chances are, or maybe it’d be presumed?). In staging a suicide with belts, was it thought the same method would pass scrutiny, not requiring a great deal of physical agility, perhaps originally intended for their murder to be perceived as a peaceful togetherness death pact? I just wonder.

Firearms are the most commonly used method of suicide for men and women, accounting for 60 percent of all suicides. Nearly 80 percent of all firearm suicides are committed by white males. The second most common method for men is hanging.

I think Michael Hutchins of INXS was the first person I recall found hanging by his belt. Others that have done it include Chester Bennington of Linkin Park, Saddam Hussein, Chris Cornell of Soundgarden, David Carradine, and Cheyenne Brando to name a few.