Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8

[andreww]

Yes, dementia is a tough thing to deal with, and I am sorry that your father suffered from it. Are you thinking that BS had dementia, and was therefore, more liable to "snap" over the house move?

I don't know Barry so I can't say. But I can tell you that with my dad it was a very gradual slide, as I'd noticed things decades ago. But there were signs, like not wanting to throw things out. He ad a pair of sandals that were falling apart, but he just kept wrapping duct tape around them. There was old patio furniture (they had new stuff) that was piled a the back of the property. Nothing but rusted frames, yet he would have a conniption if I tried to lug them to the curb. The house was badly in need of a new roof, but he'd have none of it. When water started to pour through the kitchen light, he'd fix it by putting a wash tub in the attic to collect the water. I remind you that this was a multi-millionaire. And, he was sane enough to pass his driving exam during this period.

So was Barry's refusal to get a new car similar, or did he just prefer older things? Who knows?

 

[human]

I don't know Barry so I can't say. But I can tell you that with my dad it was a very gradual slide, as I'd noticed things decades ago. But there were signs, like not wanting to throw things out. He ad a pair of sandals that were falling apart, but he just kept wrapping duct tape around them. There was old patio furniture (they had new stuff) that was piled a the back of the property. Nothing but rusted frames, yet he would have a conniption if I tried to lug them to the curb. The house was badly in need of a new roof, but he'd have none of it. When water started to pour through the kitchen light, he'd fix it by putting a wash tub in the attic to collect the water. I remind you that this was a multi-millionaire. And, he was sane enough to pass his driving exam during this period.

So was Barry's refusal to get a new car similar, or did he just prefer older things? Who knows?

I do not come from a multimillionaire family. Maybe a thousandaire.

Anyway, I do know multimillionaires who have had money for generations. They have a different attitude than others such as the nouveau riche. They wear their favorite old pair of shoes.

Did you see the cars the Queen had for the Royal Wedding? Decades old. So classic.

The truly rich have nothing to prove to anyone. They do not have the need to flaunt their wealth. They spend on some things and with other things they are very frugal.

My friend’s aunt was so rich that she would dye her carpet green for St. Patrick’s day , but the aunt would buy chickens from a farmer and pluck them herself.

I find nothing odd about Barry wanting his old car.

I remember the story of Randolph Hearst (was that the name of Patty Hearst’s father?) He gave her his old fishing car until he realized it might be dangerous to have an old car.

My husband used to go to auctions for his job. Big equipment. He said some of the most wealthy of men would be there dressed in the worst of clothing.

 

[MistyWaters]

It’s a stretch I know, but with no news I admit that I am thinking outside of the box here. If the hanging was meant to send a message, the scene, when viewed from above (legs outstretched in front, bodies suspended from a railing) would perhaps look perhaps like the letter "F", with the legs of the bodies being the horizontal lines, and the vertical line being the railing. Or, also viewed from above, the scene could resemble the traditional Chai symbol, which I often see worn by Jewish men around their neck as part of a necklace. Their legs would represent vertical parts of the symbol like this:
View attachment 135288
Again, just a WAG at this point!

An interesting WAG though. On the other hand, the purpose of the message could’ve involved deception, to lead the investigation down paths with no direct connection.

To your point though, this quote is a sentence from an article in a Jewish publication. It’s not really clear what “ghoulish, horrible imagery” is in reference to, although it may be nothing more than an apt description of the manner of how the bodies were found.

“....What made it particularly so was the ghoulish, horrible imagery surrounding their demises....”
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/do...hilanthropist-barry-sherman-and-wife-1.450654

 

[andreww]

I do not come from a multimillionaire family. Maybe a thousandaire.

Anyway, I do know multimillionaires who have had money for generations. They have a different attitude than others such as the nouveau riche. They wear their favorite old pair of shoes.

Did you see the cars the Queen had for the Royal Wedding? Decades old. So classic.

The truly rich have nothing to prove to anyone. They do not have the need to flaunt their wealth. They spend on some things and with other things they are very frugal.

My friend’s aunt was so rich that she would dye her carpet green for St. Patrick’s day , but the aunt would buy chickens from a farmer and pluck them herself.

I find nothing odd about Barry wanting his old car.

I remember the story of Randolph Hearst (was that the name of Patty Hearst’s father?) He gave her his old fishing car until he realized it might be dangerous to have an old car.

My husband used to go to auctions for his job. Big equipment. He said some of the most wealthy of men would be there dressed in the worst of clothing.

BBM, I've seen a lot of people say that but I just don't agree. I'm a car guy, so I see the value of classic cars. In fact, my oldest car turns 35 this year. And as much fun as an old car is to own and drive, on a day to day basis I wouldn't drive anything that ancient. Modern cars have made huge advancements in every respect, including safety. You think its not odd for a billionaire to be driving around in a decades old ? Well it is, totally odd, I'm sorry. Why would you sacrifice comfort, safety and reliability? From car guys everywhere, the answer is that there is no good reason. To me that one factor is a sign that his mental capacity was diminishing. Sorry.

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM, I've seen a lot of people say that but I just don't agree. I'm a car guy, so I see the value of classic cars. In fact, my oldest car turns 35 this year. And as much fun as an old car is to own and drive, on a day to day basis I wouldn't drive anything that ancient. Modern cars have made huge advancements in every respect, including safety. You think its not odd for a billionaire to be driving around in a decades old ? Well it is, totally odd, I'm sorry. Why would you sacrifice comfort, safety and reliability? From car guys everywhere, the answer is that there is no good reason. To me that one factor is a sign that his mental capacity was diminishing. Sorry.

“He’s owned only four cars in his life, driving them until they’re ready to junk.“
How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

Generally speaking, the onset of dementia is involves specific personality changes. But if in the 75 years of Barry Sherman’s life he only owned four cars, he’d already made it a life long habit of driving his old cars as long as possible. Considering that, his current 2005 Chrysler Sebring convertible was almost new.

 

[JayFriend]

Andreww, no disrespect intended, but did you fear that your mother was at risk from your father because of his unwillingness to move? If the theory is that Barry just "snapped" because of his unwillingness to deal with a move, then couldn't this also have happened in the case of your parents, especially if the situation had already caused them "tension" as you have indicated.

This is a very plausible scenario. Generally men, especially as they get older, do not like to move, or change of any sort, whereas women always want a new house, new kitchen, constantly rearrange furniture or get new stuff. This can wear on old guys who like things as they are and have trouble finding their "stuff" whenever it's moved.

 

[SeesSeas]

You think its not odd for a billionaire to be driving around in a decades old ? Well it is, totally odd, I'm sorry. Why would you sacrifice comfort, safety and reliability? From car guys everywhere, the answer is that there is no good reason. To me that one factor is a sign that his mental capacity was diminishing. Sorry.

I don't think it's odd for a billionaire to drive an old car.
It's not uncommon:
20 Filthy Rich Celebs Who Drive Extremely Cheap Cars
I'm going to drive my 10-year-old car into the ground even though I can afford a new one — and I think anyone would be crazy not to

 

[JayFriend]

I'm currently following the Wayne Millard murder trial where the death was originally ruled a suicide. Before the scene was properly examined, the revolver had been moved. There was also what would have been gunshot residue on a pillow, also not analyzed and retained. Obviously it was deemed to be a suicide, so little investigation was done. One has to wonder how much evidence was overlooked or contaminated in the Sherman case when the original conclusion was murder/suicide.

 

[human]

My dream car is a 122 Volvo wagon from the 60’s or else a P1800. Of course I would love a Bentley like the Queen has.

I suppose there are fabulous new cars I might like. I should shop the Lamborghini or Ferrari. Lol. Even the new Mercedes look ugly to me.

Can’t say a Chrysler Sebring would capture my heart.

Barry had no reason to care. Was he trying to go 60 in so many seconds or was he simply going from point A to B.

When you can afford what you want, some things are not that importanf. It seems like Barry like the stimulation of ideas more than things.

 

[ldlager]

Firearms are the most commonly used method of suicide for men and women, accounting for 60 percent of all suicides. Nearly 80 percent of all firearm suicides are committed by white males. The second most common method for men is hanging.

I think Michael Hutchins of INXS was the first person I recall found hanging by his belt. Others that have done it include Chester Bennington of Linkin Park, Saddam Hussein, Chris Cornell of Soundgarden, David Carradine, and Cheyenne Brando to name a few.

I agree re Michael Hutchins, he was the first I became aware of too. FYI Saddam Hussein died by hanging alright, but it wasn't self inflicted. The Iraqi government hung him with a rope.

 

[ldlager]

BBM, I've seen a lot of people say that but I just don't agree. I'm a car guy, so I see the value of classic cars. In fact, my oldest car turns 35 this year. And as much fun as an old car is to own and drive, on a day to day basis I wouldn't drive anything that ancient. Modern cars have made huge advancements in every respect, including safety. You think its not odd for a billionaire to be driving around in a decades old ? Well it is, totally odd, I'm sorry. Why would you sacrifice comfort, safety and reliability? From car guys everywhere, the answer is that there is no good reason. To me that one factor is a sign that his mental capacity was diminishing. Sorry.

To add to that, if I was a billionaire I sure wouldn't drive myself around either, let alone in an old car. I worked for a billionaire years ago, in Canada, and he had a driver/bodyguard with him pretty well always when he went out. Betetr safe than sorry I say.

 

[JayFriend]

To add to that, if I was a billionaire I sure wouldn't drive myself around either, let alone in an old car. I worked for a billionaire years ago, in Canada, and he had a driver/bodyguard with him pretty well always when he went out. Betetr safe than sorry I say.

A lot of people enjoy driving, especially older cars with manual transmissions. I'm a "car guy" and my oldest car is a 1985 Camaro with a manual transmission and my newest is a 2005 automatic beater. I bought my last new car in 1973, after which I considered new cars too expensive. Granted, Barry didn't have such budgetary restraints, but he still had an appreciation of value for money, which explains why he drove older cars until the became uneconomical to maintain.

 

[dotr]

Re post video.
CBC TV
The Fifth Estate
The Mystery of the Sherman Murders
Description
When Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead in their Toronto home in December, the whispers quickly began. Did someone really hate them enough to kill them both?

 

[dotr]

CBC TV

 

[Kerry Winter]

You could be right although I can’t think of any single message positioning of bodies would reveal beyond the horror of death itself.

Why I lean towards a staged suicide or staged murder/suicide was intended to not pass close scrutiny, a couple reasons...

Just prior to the Sherman murders, there were a couple of other wrongly ruled Ontario cases that suddenly came to light, only deemed to be murder because the perps later drew suspicion to themselves. One was an almost unbelievable, horrific case involving the murder of Caleb Harrison and in turn the earlier deaths of both of his parents.
Mississauga mom and her spouse found guilty of first-degree murder in killing of ex-husband | The Star
The other example of course is Wayne Millard’s death, originally ruled a suicide. Maybe these examples just happened to come to notice coincidently but it sure makes me wonder how many other murders are being written off as suicide or accidental death, either due to shoddy investigation, overworked police forces, poor training or purely because no evidence of foul play was found.

I’d never heard of suicide by hanging by a belt until the death of Robin Williams when it was splashed all over by the media. I recall a huge amount of curiosity about it at the time. Up until then, I had absolutely no idea hanging could occur without feet dangling off the ground. I’m not familiar with the movie referred to that RW acted in, where this manner of suicide was used, but I think it’s fair to say most people would definitely associate suicide by belt to Robin Williams because of the high level of media reporting about it.
Robin Williams’ death: Iconic comedian’s death officially ruled suicide

Robin Williams was also close to the same ago as the Shermans as well. (Were the Shermans fans? In that same age group, chances are, or maybe it’d be presumed?). In staging a suicide with belts, was it thought the same method would pass scrutiny, not requiring a great deal of physical agility, perhaps originally intended for their murder to be perceived as a peaceful togetherness death pact? I just wonder.

“for their murder to be perceived as a peaceful togetherness death pact?”

YES!!!!!!!!

 

[Kerry Winter]

Yes I did actually. He was never physically abusive, but he was becoming more verbally abusive and I feared it might escalate. Dementia is a tough thing to deal with, for all involved.

Dementia?!?!
After sitting across from Barry during a discovery last year and watching him closely l turned to my lawyer and said, “he’s losing it”.
Maybe, Barry had Alzheimer’s and during the latter stages....people are prone to violent outbursts. Would luv to see his medical file.

 

[SeesSeas]

“for their murder to be perceived as a peaceful togetherness death pact?”

YES!!!!!!!!

This isn't peaceful and it seems bizarre that this would be perceived as peaceful:
Honey had "cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood"

Private investigators believe Toronto billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, source says | CBC News
Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers. She had cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood when she was discovered. However, there was comparatively little blood apparent on her upper-body clothing, suggesting that she had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before being bound to the handrail in an upright position, the source said.

 

[human]

Dementia?!?!
After sitting across from Barry during a discovery last year and watching him closely l turned to my lawyer and said, “he’s losing it”.
Maybe, Barry had Alzheimer’s and during the latter stages....people are prone to violent outbursts. Would luv to see his medical file.

Since he was at work for hours and hours everyday, did anyone notice anything?

Barry was talking during “discovery”? I would figure a lawyer would do all talking.

 

[MistyWaters]

This isn't peaceful and it seems bizarre that this would be perceived as peaceful:
Honey had "cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood"

Private investigators believe Toronto billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, source says | CBC News
Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers. She had cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood when she was discovered. However, there was comparatively little blood apparent on her upper-body clothing, suggesting that she had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before being bound to the handrail in an upright position, the source said.

If it is proven true that “Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers.”, I think the perp/s failed to anticipate a 70 year old woman with mobility issues might pose difficulty in subduing. As written by Robert Burns, the best laid plans of mice and men often go awry. In that the deaths were indeed deemed to have been a double homicide lends to the fact there is no such thing as a perfect murder and imo the injuries incurred by Honey was the first big red flag.

 

[JDG]

I don't see BS as having dementia at all. He was a very astute business man who constantly won court battles. For decades. His habit of driving older cars was a life long habit, not a sign of 'losing it'. He was known to be frugal in all manner of things. Maybe he could be classed as 'eccentric' but plenty of people are eccentric.