CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[zecats]

@Dog_River
Do you think RCMP had no choice but mention criminality?
Most of us follow the official Missing Ben Tyner FB & read the posts from his family & close friends. At least two very close friends posted that Ben was murdered, one in February & another in early March. Maybe LE felt they had no choice in the matter.
I don’t believe Ben’s friends would be so blatant had they not been given facts from the Tyner family.
Moo

I saw those posts. If they knew that early on, I’m thinking LE gave them the possibility at least.

 

[Trudie]

I saw those posts. If they knew that early on, I’m thinking LE gave them the possibility at least.

Going back to the beginning, Jack seemed to know, imo.
Therefore, I think Ben discussed “things” with Jack.
A lot of times LE refrains from commenting, as we know. Once the cat was out of the bag, they had to address it.
Moo

ETA: I don’t think any of Ben’s friends would post “Ben was murdered”, on the official page if they had not been told so by family. Jack can remove their posts, if he chooses.

 

[MistyWaters]

Going back to the beginning, Jack seemed to know, imo.
Therefore, I think Ben discussed “things” with
Jack.
Once people started posting Ben was murdered, LE must have decided they needed to make a statement.

One thing very different between Canada and USA, here policing does not involve elections and therefore it is not impacted at all by politics or public popularity. I must admit I sort of cringe if ever the RCMP are compared to small town Sheriff offices in the States as the comparison is apples and oranges.

So I believe the recent RCMP statements were given based solely on the examination of evidence and circumstances as result of the investigation to date, as opposed to anything based on opinions by friends or family members. However no doubt the recent reference to possible criminality being involved is what the family and friends have strongly suspected from the onset considering unfounded rumours that always proliferate during missing person cases including suicide or that the victim intentionally staged a scene to look as if they disappeared. Whether or not they’ve been able to offer direct information that’s proven helpful to the investigation, I think we can only speculate.

 

[zecats]

Going back to the beginning, Jack seemed to know, imo.
Therefore, I think Ben discussed “things” with Jack.
A lot of times LE refrains from commenting, as we know. Once the cat was out of the bag, they had to address it.
Moo

Jack subtlety addressed it IMO when he made the statement he couldn’t give any info at the current time. He’d been up there searching earlier. I hope he found clues and LE did too.

 

[Trudie]

One thing very different between Canada and USA, here policing does not involve elections and therefore it is not impacted at all by politics or public popularity. I must admit I sort of cringe if ever the RCMP are compared to small town Sheriff offices in the States as the comparison is apples and oranges.

So I believe the recent RCMP statements were given based solely on the examination of evidence and circumstances as result of the investigation to date, as opposed to anything based on opinions by friends or family members. However no doubt the recent reference to possible criminality being involved is what the family and friends have strongly suspected from the onset considering unfounded rumours that always proliferate during missing person cases including suicide or that the victim intentionally staged a scene to look as if they disappeared. Whether or not they’ve been able to offer direct information that’s proven helpful to the investigation, I think we can only speculate.

<modsnip: rumor>
Luckily, most LE are not elected in the US. Each State has their own State police, plus we have city & county LE.
Elected LE are few. Thankfully. Plus, a sheriff has many duties unrelated to LE.
Moo

 

[foxbluff]

Somewhere early on, I seem to recall it mentioned that Ben would have had a drone with him. Can't find it now, so perhaps that was speculation on somebody's part?

 

[Trudie]

Somewhere early on, I seem to recall it mentioned that Ben would have had a drone with him. Can't find it now, so perhaps that was speculation on somebody's part?

I’ll look for the article/s. It was suggested in msm he often carried a drone.

 

[MistyWaters]

<modsnip: rumor>
Luckily, most LE are not elected in the US. Each State has their own State police, plus we have city & county LE.
Elected LE are few. Thankfully. Plus, a sheriff has many duties unrelated to LE.
Moo

Yes I’m aware of the differences between police forces in the two countries. In Canada the RCMP is a national organization.

<modsnip: reference to rumor>

My only point was I’m certain the RCMPs statement was based on evidence, not what people think might’ve happened. The reason the RCMP sought somebody driving a truck and trailer early on is unknown. Was that because of the distance that Gunny was found or were there tire tracks as well, maybe even video of one travelling through Merritt in the darkness, we don’t know. That it appears no one has came forward is a high indication of criminal circumstances. Until charges are laid or unless LE requires the public’s assistance in identification, highly probable no further information will be released.

 

[zecats]

Somewhere early on, I seem to recall it mentioned that Ben would have had a drone with him. Can't find it now, so perhaps that was speculation on somebody's part?

So if he didn’t really ride that day, maybe a drone would be found with his belongings left behind as well. Along with cell phone.

 

[MistyWaters]

Early on I recall the RCMP were being criticized for searching for Ben in the wrong location, the wrong side of the mountain or something like that. That was back at a time when it was widely believed Ben would be found alive, that some type of accident had occurred while he was out riding, no foul play involved.

I’m still a bit curious about that....does anyone know how that critique all started and was it true? Or was it unfounded speculation or did LE know more than the public even at that time? Thoughts?

 

[Trudie]

My only point was I’m certain the RCMPs statement was based on evidence, not what people think might’ve happened. The reason the RCMP sought somebody driving a truck and trailer early on is unknown. Was that because of the distance that Gunny was found or were there tire tracks as well, maybe even video of one travelling through Merritt in the darkness, we don’t know. That it appears no one has came forward is a high indication of criminal circumstances. Until charges are laid or unless LE requires the public’s assistance in identification, highly probable no further information will be released.

<modsnip: reference to social media rumor>

Iirc LE considered Ben & Gunny were trailered, hence the appeal for dash cam footage.
IMO, there’s a suspect not yet arrested, only because he has someone to support his alibi.
Again, JMO

 

[Trudie]

Early on I recall the RCMP were being criticized for searching for Ben in the wrong location, the wrong side of the mountain or something like that. That was back at a time when it was widely believed Ben would be found alive, that some type of accident had occurred while he was out riding, no foul play involved.

I’m still a bit curious about that....does anyone know how that critique all started and was it true? Or was it unfounded speculation or did LE know more than the public even at that time? Thoughts?

I don’t think anyone really considered Ben would be found alive. I think once it was determined Gunny was his horse, it was nothing more than protocol to go looking for him. Simultaneously RCMP interviewed his cow hands & NR staff (I hope) & turned his phone & other critical items over to the forensics lab, would be my guess.
As far as criticism about the search area, KR stated LE were searching the wrong area, wasting time & resources.

 

[MistyWaters]

<modsnip: reference to social media rumor>

Iirc LE considered Ben & Gunny were trailered, hence the appeal for dash cam footage.
IMO, there’s a suspect not yet arrested, only because he has someone to support his alibi.
Again, JMO

An alibi isn’t sufficient reason to prevent someone from being arrested if there’s adequate evidence to support criminal charges. During the trial, the accused has every right to defend themselves by introducing their alibi and that’s a very common defence tactic. An alibi doesn’t guarantee the defendant be found not guilty if the weight of incriminating evidence is greater.

I think because charges haven’t yet been laid, LE must still be seeking additional evidence. Often that takes time especially because a body hasn’t yet been found. One of the challenges is that it must be proven beyond reasonable doubt that Ben is in fact deceased.

 

[Trudie]

An alibi isn’t sufficient reason to prevent someone from being arrested if there’s adequate evidence to support criminal charges. During the trial, the accused has every right to defend themselves by introducing their alibi and that’s a very common defence tactic. An alibi doesn’t guarantee the defendant be found not guilty if the weight of incriminating evidence is greater.

I think because charges haven’t yet been laid, LE must still be seeking additional evidence. Often that takes time especially because a body hasn’t yet been found. One of the challenges is that it must be proven beyond reasonable doubt that Ben is in fact deceased.

Lol, I understand an alibi.
LE said they needed additional puzzle pieces, iirc.
We all have our own opinions. Mine is that LE has a suspect, arrest pending.

ETA: it takes considerable time to verify the validity of an alibi

 

[Satchie]

Early on I recall the RCMP were being criticized for searching for Ben in the wrong location, the wrong side of the mountain or something like that. That was back at a time when it was widely believed Ben would be found alive, that some type of accident had occurred while he was out riding, no foul play involved.

I’m still a bit curious about that....does anyone know how that critique all started and was it true? Or was it unfounded speculation or did LE know more than the public even at that time? Thoughts?

The SAR teams searched all the trails between where the horse was found and Nicola Ranch. There's a sizeable mountain in between, and major highways, so the possible routes are fairly limited.

KR, the tracker who retrieved the horse, declared he knew all those trails and the horse couldn't have come that way without leaving tracks that he would have seen, so the searchers were wasting their time.

I think early on, he went and seached for any tracks on the Nicola Ranch side of the mountain, the possible trails there are very limited because of the Coquihalla [ETA, there's only one or two places to cross under the highway from Nicola Ranch): "I would say it is almost 100 per cent impossible for anybody to leave that ranch and try and hide their tracks and be successful.”
Missing cowboy leaves no trace - Merritt Herald

He didn't say that police/SAR should be searching somewhere else. I know some people might see his words as implicating him, but my interpretation is he knew what he was talking about, and knew very quickly that it was no accident, and the only way the horse could have gotten there was by trailer. He complained about the hours-long delay in identifying who the horse belonged to, in a place where people and horses don't go missing: "When they called me back at 12:30 p.m. — this really pissed me off — they told me that it was the manager of the Nicola Ranch’s horse, who had been missing since Saturday night. I don’t know why nobody knew.”
UPDATE: Ben Tyner confirmed missing by Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald

 

[MistyWaters]

The SAR teams searched all the trails between where the horse was found and Nicola Ranch. There's a sizeable mountain in between, and major highways, so the possible routes are fairly limited.

KR, the tracker who retrieved the horse, declared he knew all those trails and the horse couldn't have come that way without leaving tracks that he would have seen, so the searchers were wasting their time.

I think early on, he went and seached for any tracks on the Nicola Ranch side of the mountain, the possible trails there are very limited because of the Coquihalla [ETA, there's only one or two places to cross under the highway from Nicola Ranch): "I would say it is almost 100 per cent impossible for anybody to leave that ranch and try and hide their tracks and be successful.”
Missing cowboy leaves no trace - Merritt Herald

He didn't say that police/SAR should be searching somewhere else. I know some people might see his words as implicating him, but my interpretation is he knew what he was talking about, and knew very quickly that it was no accident, and the only way the horse could have gotten there was by trailer. He complained about the hours-long delay in identifying who the horse belonged to, in a place where people and horses don't go missing: "When they called me back at 12:30 p.m. — this really pissed me off — they told me that it was the manager of the Nicola Ranch’s horse, who had been missing since Saturday night. I don’t know why nobody knew.”
UPDATE: Ben Tyner confirmed missing by Nicola Ranch - Merritt Herald

Thanks, that’s very helpful! So it might be the tracker assumed Ben had ridden directly from NR however early on LE might’ve already had some type of other evidence neither he nor the general public was aware of.

 

[Trudie]

When they called me back at 12:30 p.m. — this really pissed me off — they told me that it was the manager of the Nicola Ranch’s horse, who had been missing since Saturday night. I don’t know why nobody knew.”

So, according to this, by 12:30 it was determined Ben had not been seen since a Saturday night. So much confusion over the last sighting. I think we can assume in such a short time frame LE only had time to interview NR staff.

This is from an early article (previously linked)

Kim Robinson hopes searchers are looking in the correct area.

He did find the horse, and he knows the area very well. In 2008 he apprehended fugitive Allan Schoenboern in the hills above Merritt, after Schoenborn killed his three children.

“I feel bad that a lot of the resources are being wasted in an area that I know nobody was in,” Robinson said.

Merritt search continues with some questioning if cowboy’s disappearance is suspicious - SooToday.com

 

[MistyWaters]

Lol, I understand an alibi.
LE said they needed additional puzzle pieces, iirc.
We all have our own opinions. Mine is that LE has a suspect, arrest pending.

ETA: it takes considerable time to verify the validity of an alibi

What type of alibi are you thinking of that LE would be able to verify? In this case I think it’d be somewhat difficult for the precise time of any crime to be identified. I’m not referring to entire days, but for example within a certain timeframe.

 

[MistyWaters]

So, according to this, by 12:30 it was determined Ben had not been seen since a Saturday night. So much confusion over the last sighting. I think we can assume in such a short time frame LE only had time to interview NR staff.

This is from an early article (previously linked)

Kim Robinson hopes searchers are looking in the correct area.

He did find the horse, and he knows the area very well. In 2008 he apprehended fugitive Allan Schoenboern in the hills above Merritt, after Schoenborn killed his three children.

“I feel bad that a lot of the resources are being wasted in an area that I know nobody was in,” Robinson said.

Merritt search continues with some questioning if cowboy’s disappearance is suspicious - SooToday.com

The only other possibility is somebody at NR noted something they didn’t consider overly suspicious until after the riderless Gunny was found. Then the information was disclosed to LE.

I’m not sure how many days after Ben’s disappearance the topic of truck and trailer was first mentioned but this interview was published Feb 1st.

“...Local resident Gerry Desilets believes the situation odd, saying it’s “puzzling” that someone might have hauled the horse out, but now won’t speak up.

Asked if he finds it suspicious, he responded “I think it’s getting that way.”..”
Merritt search continues with some questioning if cowboy’s disappearance is suspicious

 

[Trudie]

What type of alibi are you thinking of that LE would be able to verify? In this case I think it’d be somewhat difficult for the precise time of any crime to be identified. I’m not referring to entire days, but for example within a certain timeframe.

Not important. I have a firm suspect in mind, it’d be against TOS to go further.

ETA: perhaps the Crown counsel are researching Ben’s case file now.