CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[MistyWaters]

I think it's like any investigation where police gather information, try to confirm it, and move forward. Two and a half months ago, it looks like they were looking to confirm the statement that Ben left on Saturday afternoon and didn't return.

Yes that could be although it was the day before that report was published that LE claimed they knew Ben’s whereabouts on the Saturday night.

 

[MistyWaters]

Sorry if this has been addressed already. It is not really unusual. Even though it is a "court-ordered" pub ban, it could well have been requested by the defence for the protection of their client to ensure a fair trial. It is SOP that if the request comes from the defence, the ban is always granted. IOW, it is not necessarily a case of the prosecution or the judge covering up info or not wanting certain info publicized.

Yes that indeed could be the reason. Publication bans can also be issued to protect the identity of witnesses.
Publication Bans

More on the arson connection -

<modsnip: sleuthing of individuals not officially named POI/suspect by LE is not allowed>

“Asked what he would say to the arsonist, Tyner gave a horse-sense response.

“I don’t know that I’d . . . I don’t know that he would warrant any of my time to comment to. I don’t think anyone that would stoop that low would be worth talking to.”

Search continues for missing rancher in B.C.’s Interior

 

[otto]

I still find it strange that Ben did not take his cell phone, especially if he headed out alone on horseback. I got cell service all down the hill into the valley on my old cell phone 2 weeks ago.

And I think the police and Ben's family might have an idea how long Ben was gone by the condition his dogs were in, especially if they were left alone in his house. Food bowls empty, little water, puddles of pee and piles of poop. Nose prints on windows, nail scratches on doors from frantic dogs needing to get out... jmo

I don't think he headed out on horseback alone and vanished. He may have ridden to the backcountry on Saturday afternoon, but he was seen somewhere else that night.

All his stuff, truck, phone, dog is at home. It looks like he was at home when something happened.

RCMP have said that they believe something happened after Saturday, meaning Sunday or later. No one has reported seeing him on Sunday. His horse was found on a logging road by a trapper just after five o'clock on Monday morning.

 

[otto]

Yes that could be although it was the day before that report was published that LE claimed they knew Ben’s whereabouts on the Saturday night.

Over time, new evidence is discovered. That information is released based on investigative goals. All I know for sure is that in February there was no evidence of foul play, and by March foul play was suspected. That means there is evidence. That evidence needs to be corroborated, which could be why there is a request for dash-cam footage.

My guess is that RCMP are trying to pin down Ben's timeline. They have released statements that Ben was at the ranch in the afternoon, and he was seen in the evening. There is no information for Sunday. Monday morning the horse was found.

He was seen at the ranch in the afternoon. He was seen in the evening. RCMP want to hear from people riding in the area where the horse was found (maybe they heard something), see dash-cam footage from the highways and backroads near the ranch on the weekend of Jan 27-28, confirm Ben's vehicle arrived at the ranch Saturday evening ...

Why doesn't an 8 million dollar operation have security cameras?

 

[otto]

Who was Ben Tyner:

"Notably, Global News talked to Tyner after the recent arsonist church fires in Merritt on Friday, Jan. 11 the 143-year-old Murray United Church north of Merritt was completely destroyed, reduced to a pile of ashes.

“Well, it’s tragic, really,” Tyner told Global News on a cool, overcast day with snow partially covering the ground, with puffs of smoke rising from the burned-out remains of the church in the background.

“The church has been a landmark here for well over 100 years . . . it’s been part of the community,” continued Tyner. “I know I’m not from here, I didn’t grow up around it, but I know a lot of people that did. This morning, it’s been very upsetting. It’s definitely a tragic loss.

“It was a historic point for this area; it was one of the oldest churches in B.C., to my understanding. Just a senseless act and a very tragic and irreplaceable loss.”​

Search continues for missing rancher in B.C.’s Interior

 

[otto]

Seventeen days later, Ben Tyner was presumably dead. He has not been in contact with anyone since the evening of Saturday January 26. His saddled horse was found on a logging road near his residence on January 28.

I doubt that the church fires have anything to do with Ben's disappearance. Everything he said was kosher.

Ben's truck, cell phone and dog were at home on Monday. He was most likely at home when something happened to him after Saturday. Whoever did something to him also did something to his horse. Who could even think of trying to get away with staging the murder of a cowboy by leaving his horse on a logging road - such an elaborate plan!

 

[zecats]

RCMP have provided information about Ben being at the ranch in the afternoon and somewhere else in the evening to narrow down the time that something happened. Since his vehicle was at his home, it's likely that something happened when he returned home on Saturday night or early the following morning.

I have always been curious about the statement made about narrowing the time frame and knowing where Ben was Saturday night. That article came out Jan 30 (updated Jan 31).

Searchers narrow time frame of Merritt cowboy's disappearance

I have yet to see any new article or LE statement with that Saturday evening time. The later reports use Saturday afternoon, and Saturday at 2pm as time last seen. I have seen those that just say Saturday, so could mean evening.

It’s strange that one single mention of the later sighting so early in the investigation.

In any case, I don’t think Gunny was out there roaming around for 2 days, and especially nights. She was found unscathed. No marks even on her saddle. What horse would hang out there lost for that much time without trying to lose the saddle. Imo

I do think it’s possible Ben was killed late Saturday night and the Gunny was trailered out sometime on Sunday. The killer had other things to clean up and get rid of first. Jmo.

IMO getting rid of the horse and also a statement that Ben was around on Saturday afternoon were both diversions to what really happened. All MOO.

 

[zecats]

https://www.radionl.com/2019/04/11/...he-disappearance-of-merritt-cowboy-ben-tyner/

This is the latest request for footage that I have bookmarked.

ETA: Ben’s brother, Jack
Tyner, has never changed the official BT FB page, it still shows 01-26 2pm sighting as the last.

Possible Ben was out and about Friday night? Maybe socializing? The report of Saturday night was released that Wednesday, only 2 days after Gunny found. Early days. Someone could have confused the nights initially and stated Saturday when meaning Friday.

Le may have been collecting info from socializers (if you get my drift), thinking accident at this time, etc. Then when day confusion confirmed later, never making a statement to retract Saturday evening time.

Also explains why footage is desired from Friday on. LE may be looking to track Ben’s movements during this whole timeframe as well as potential suspects. All speculation on my part.

 

[otto]

I have always been curious about the statement made about narrowing the time frame and knowing where Ben was Saturday night. That article came out Jan 30 (updated Jan 31).

Searchers narrow time frame of Merritt cowboy's disappearance

I have yet to see any new article or LE statement with that Saturday evening time. The later reports use Saturday afternoon, and Saturday at 2pm as time last seen. I have seen those that just say Saturday, so could mean evening.

It’s strange that one single mention of the later sighting so early in the investigation.

In any case, I don’t think Gunny was out there roaming around for 2 days, and especially nights. She was found unscathed. No marks even on her saddle. What horse would hang out there lost for that much time without trying to lose the saddle. Imo

I do think it’s possible Ben was killed late Saturday night and the Gunny was trailered out sometime on Sunday. The killer had other things to clean up and get rid of first. Jmo.

IMO getting rid of the horse and also a statement that Ben was around on Saturday afternoon were both diversions to what really happened. All MOO.

With every missing person, the task for RCMP is to find out when he went missing, who he was with, what he was doing, and where he was last seen.

I have posted links to the news articles and RCMP Missing BC websites with more links to updates about the investigation. Police have said that they are looking for information related to Ben after Saturday, and dash-cam footage from Saturday/Sunday. Check RCMP link for evidence of timeline that interests RCMP.

I don't think that police believe that the horse was on the logging road for 2 days. There are no hoof prints leading to a rider, so it looks like the horse was left at Winnie Flats with a saddle and without a rider.

Someone saw Ben on Saturday night and investigators (FBI-type) are interested in the time after Saturday. That could be as early as 1AM Sunday morning or as late as 3PM. There was no contact with Ben on Sunday, and his horse was found Monday. Maybe his horse was left on the logging road Sunday - 24 hours or less.

RCMP have said he was at the ranch on Saturday afternoon. RCMP have also said that he was seen on Saturday night, although they did not say where he was. After that, there's nothing but silence from Ben.

 

[otto]

Possible Ben was out and about Friday night? Maybe socializing? The report of Saturday night was released that Wednesday, only 2 days after Gunny found. Early days. Someone could have confused the nights initially and stated Saturday when meaning Friday.

Le may have been collecting info from socializers (if you get my drift), thinking accident at this time, etc. Then when day confusion confirmed later, never making a statement to retract Saturday evening time.

Also explains why footage is desired from Friday on. LE may be looking to track Ben’s movements during this whole timeframe as well as potential suspects. All speculation on my part.

I'm not good with drift. Ben was last seen as reported by RCMP on Saturday night. The horse was found Monday morning. There's no contact with Ben on Sunday.

Dash-cam footage is requested for the weekend, not Friday:

The investigation continues to be a priority for the Merritt RCMP and the Southeast District Major Crime Unit (SED MCU). Investigators are now asking anyone who was in Merritt on the weekend of January 26 to 27, 2019 and has dash cam or other video footage, to please contact the SED MCU tip line at 1-877-987-8477.
​

RCMP in British Columbia - Dash Cam Footage Wanted in Missing Cowboy Investigation

Footage is requested for Saturday and Sunday not only in Merritt or near the ranch, but in the valley. How could investigators figure out that the body is in the valley based on where the horse was found. It's impossible, but maybe a suspect lives on that road.

 

[zecats]

With every missing person, the task for RCMP is to find out when he went missing, who he was with, what he was doing, and where he was last seen.

I have posted links to the news articles and RCMP Missing BC websites with more links to updates about the investigation. Police have said that they are looking for information related to Ben after Saturday, and dash-cam footage from Saturday/Sunday. Check RCMP link for evidence of timeline that interests RCMP.

I don't think that police believe that the horse was on the logging road for 2 days. There are no hoof prints leading to a rider, so it looks like the horse was left at Winnie Flats with a saddle and without a rider.

Someone saw Ben on Saturday night and investigators (FBI-type) are interested in the time after Saturday. That could be as early as 1AM Sunday morning or as late as 3PM. There was no contact with Ben on Sunday, and his horse was found Monday. Maybe his horse was left on the logging road Sunday - 24 hours or less.

RCMP have said he was at the ranch on Saturday afternoon. RCMP have also said that he was seen on Saturday night, although they did not say where he was. After that, there's nothing but silence from Ben.

I agree. When I’m the middle of trying to figure things out, I get lost in the MSM reports and LE statements as to timeframe. They often seem to be mixed up and all over the place. It is more simple than that after all. They do seem to have a timeline.

In that case, anyone who saw him Saturday afternoon probably was being truthful. Saturday evening as well was likely a safe situation. After he arrived home Saturday night, he was in trouble. Maybe even on the way into his house. I read info (going to see if I can find it again) that his phone was found in his truck. If true, he possibly was ambushed coming home late that evening. Best way in my mind to attack a large strong man, with element of surprise and maybe after he had been drinking a few beers. Jmo

 

[zecats]

I'm not good with drift. Ben was last seen as reported by RCMP on Saturday night. The horse was found Monday morning. There's no contact with Ben on Sunday.

Dash-cam footage is requested for the weekend, not Friday:

The investigation continues to be a priority for the Merritt RCMP and the Southeast District Major Crime Unit (SED MCU). Investigators are now asking anyone who was in Merritt on the weekend of January 26 to 27, 2019 and has dash cam or other video footage, to please contact the SED MCU tip line at 1-877-987-8477.
​

RCMP in British Columbia - Dash Cam Footage Wanted in Missing Cowboy Investigation

Footage is requested for Saturday and Sunday not only in Merritt or near the ranch, but in the valley. How could investigators figure out that the body is in the valley based on where the horse was found. It's impossible, but maybe a suspect lives on that road.

Off in another one of my “what if” theories and how come so many different times. I get it now.

And my use of word “drift” was used to politely intimate that witnesses who may have been drinking could possibly confuse things. Like which night.

I’m on board with your timeline. Seems fairly straightforward.

 

[otto]

Think about it. The horse was found just after 5AM on Monday. The horse had stepped on the reins. 24 hours earlier it was Sunday, the day that Ben was no longer in contact. Someone took the horse to the logging road maybe as late as 5AM Monday or as early as midnight Saturday/Sunday - 29 hours maximum that the horse could have been at the logging road. I'm assuming that no one messed with Ben's horse while he was alive.

Why is the murder so elaborate? Why isn't this just a dead body or a missing person? Why is there a ruse that he went horseback riding Saturday afternoon and never returned? That seems so planned out with a plausible theory for someone's absence.

Staging the horse is too complicated for a one-stop accidental murder.The clever, bungled and long-winded murder scenario seems feminine. Who is the culprit?

 

[otto]

Off in another one of my “what if” theories and how come so many different times. I get it now.

And my use of word “drift” was used to politely intimate that witnesses who may have been drinking could possibly confuse things. Like which night.

I’m on board with your timeline. Seems fairly straightforward.

What if matters.
Confused as everyone seems to be, RCMP are interested in "after Saturday". What that means is that they know what he did Saturday night, but then it's a blank. Even if the witness was drunk, after Saturday is the focus. Did Ben drive home Saturday night and when was his truck first seen at home?

Did he run into trouble on Saturday night after he was seen and before he got home, or did he disappear from home? His horse did.

 

[zecats]

What if matters.
Confused as everyone seems to be, RCMP are interested in "after Saturday". What that means is that they know what he did Saturday night, but then it's a blank. Even if the witness was drunk, after Saturday is the focus. Did Ben drive home Saturday night and when was his truck first seen at home?

Did he run into trouble on Saturday night after he was seen and before he got home, or did he disappear from home? His horse did.

It does. Sometimes. “What if” works with certain perimeters. Not so much with wild theories.

Better to make the story fit the facts than try to make the facts fit the story.

 

[otto]

The story should not fit the facts any more than the facts should fit the story. The facts are bizarre, and it's up to the prosecutor to tell a story.

 

[zecats]

The story should not fit the facts any more than the facts should fit the story. The facts are bizarre, and it's up to the prosecutor to tell a story.

The facts in this case do seem bizarre, like staging a horse for instance. This perp was trying to be clever in a creatively deceptive way.
But there is a story here. Any prosecutor will need facts (evidence) to tell it and to prove what happened.

 

[enelram]

Good Morning Everyone,
Otto, you're asking great questions.
My opinion is that initially, the discussion of tracks or no tracks
leaving the ranch and no tracks around found horse were facts
that were originally brushed over.
If you go back and read the msm articles, RMCP were guessing
about the tracks or no tracks. It didn't sound to me like anyone
really tried to follow tracks early on. Someone said they couldn't follow tracks around the logging area. The mention of someone
trailering the horse to where it was found was because no one
found tracks for any other explanation.
Then the 'trailering of the horse' story grew legs and they went
with it. Not because they had any facts to support that theory but because no one found tracks- I think they missed the boat on
early tracking or someone covered up the tracks leaving the
ranch and there was no good tracker in the logging area, maybe
a bunch of locals, not trackers?

 

[enelram]

IIRC, RCMP was not in on the search until sometime Tuesday.
So there was possibly 2 or more days for tracks to have disappeared. Around the ranch or Ben's home, how many vehicles
may have driven over possible tracks?
And when the horse was found it was reported the tracks couldn't
be followed. Was it really because of the wild horses in the area
or because a competent tracker was not on the scene? Or those
on the scene on Monday figured Ben was missing due to an
accident and they didn't put much stock in getting competent
trackers on scene.
Again, I haven't heard any facts leading to the trailering of the
horse. I believe they're just speculating on this idea. Without
facts to support it.

 

[enelram]

Remember when the local tracker Kim R. found the horse, around
5-5:30 am Monday morning, once he caught the horse and tied
it to a tree, he called a "couple of cowboys" to tell them about
finding the horse. They didn't reply back until 12:30pm telling
him it was Ben's horse and that Ben had been missing since
Saturday evening.
Full stop.
So who already knew Ben was 'missing' since Sat. night. And how did they know this? Why did it take ' couple cowboys' 5 hours
to reply to Kim R. Was someone getting their story in line and
making sure their stories are straight and similar?
And why didn't these cowboys 'alert' someone that Ben was
missing even before the horse was found? Did no one care?
Or did no one notice he was missing?
Investigators need to hone in on these "cowboys" about what
they knew and when did they know it.
moo