CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[otto]

I think if they find a trailer on camera being hauled anytime during that timeframe, it at least provides a starting point. If license plate is visible then a person could be questioned. Don’t know Canada’s protocol for searching, but possibly trailer can then be searched trace evidence. Or if person seen driving claims to have been occupied somewhere else at the time, there’s a red flag. Imo

The trailer has to be going in the direction where the horse was found at the time that the horse could have been transported (this comes down to when Ben was last seen). A licence plate is not always visible with a horse trailer, especially if the only required plate is on the back of the vehicle and the horse trailer plate is missing

If the trailer can be found, as someone mentioned, the owner will be detained. That will lead to the vehicle, the owner of the vehicle, and so on with answers to his body.

Canada protocol is that everyone who is detained is entitled to speak with a lawyer, but does not have the right to have the lawyer present during questioning. Probable cause through questioning leads to warrants, and evidence, and conviction.

Another point to consider is that theft from rural properties is so high in BC that RCMP do nothing more than tell the owner to contact insurance. No effort seems to be made to locate stolen equipment such as jet skis and horse trailers. Even if the trailer is identified, what is the probability that it was stolen?

 

[zecats]

The trailer has to be going in the direction where the horse was found at the time that the horse could have been transported (this comes down to when Ben was last seen). A licence plate is not always visible with a horse trailer, especially if the only required plate is on the back of the vehicle.

If the trailer can be found, as someone mentioned, the owner will be detained. That will lead to the vehicle, the owner of the vehicle, and so on with answers to his body.

Canada protocol is that everyone who is detained is entitled to speak with a lawyer, but does not have the right to have the lawyer present during questioning. Probable cause through questioning leads to warrants, and evidence, and conviction.

Another point to consider is that theft from rural properties is so high in BC that RCMP do nothing more than tell the owner to contact insurance. No effort seems to be made to locate stolen equipment such as jet skis and horse trailers. Even if the trailer is identified, what is the probability that it was stolen?

I don’t believe that a stolen trailer was used in this case. What if someone did use Ben’s trailer? Camera footage is then helpful to see the trailer going either direction, since his truck and trailer were found at his residence.

Imo though whoever is responsible for Ben’s death and his horse being transported and dropped a long way off as a decoy, used their own or a borrowed trailer. Or one from the ranch. Again jmo.

 

[otto]

I don’t believe that a stolen trailer was used in this case. What if someone did use Ben’s trailer? Camera footage is then helpful to see the trailer going either direction, since his truck and trailer were found at his residence.

Imo though whoever is responsible for Ben’s death and his horse being transported and dropped a long way off as a decoy, used their own or a borrowed trailer. Or one from the ranch. Again jmo.

That would indeed be interesting, if his vehicle and trailer was driven to a location, and driven back, and he disappeared in the interim.

Was he ever part of a biker gang? I'm just trying to figure out what else is at play that would lead to his assassination.

 

[Trudie]

They need to prove murder and they need to find Ben, arresting someone for maybe transporting the horse won't prove anything.

It will prove a lot! If they find evidence John Doe transported Ben’s horse, yet never came forward to admit to hauling the horse, he’s a suspect in Ben’s disappearance.
I sure hope they find Ben, until they do, presumably LE proceeds with a no-body murder.
Moo

 

[Trudie]

It doesn't have to prove anything, but it does suggest culpability and conspiracy to commit murder. Finding a driver transporting Ben's horse is enough to charge the driver. I'm going to look at the map - thank you!

Especially if said horse hauler was questioned & denied doing so.
No info about Ben belonging to a biker group.
He only moved to Ca three months prior to going missing.

 

[Satchie]

That would indeed be interesting, if his vehicle and trailer was driven to a location, and driven back, and he disappeared in the interim.

Was he ever part of a biker gang? I'm just trying to figure out what else is at play that would lead to his assassination.

He was a professional cowboy originally from Wyoming, you can find some good info by googling. The feeling here is, he was never involved in anything shifty. There's not much violent crime in Merritt, btw.

The location of the horse was 7 km up the OK Forest Service logging road, off 97C N. Also mentioned was 'near Winnie Flats'. Those locations aren't on internet maps, so it was somewhere between 97C North and the Coquihalla.
Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

 

[Tripod]

Bring Ben Home!

 

[Satchie]

It will prove a lot! If they find evidence John Doe transported Ben’s horse, yet never came forward to admit to hauling the horse, he’s a suspect in Ben’s disappearance.
I sure hope they find Ben, until they do, presumably LE proceeds with a no-body murder.
Moo

I meant proof that would lead to a conviction of murder in court.

 

[otto]

It will prove a lot! If they find evidence John Doe transported Ben’s horse, yet never came forward to admit to hauling the horse, he’s a suspect in Ben’s disappearance.
I sure hope they find Ben, until they do, presumably LE proceeds with a no-body murder.
Moo

Looking at 7 km up the OK Forest Service logging road, off 97C N.

 

[otto]

Is this indigenous land?

 

[TatianaBarbie]

The grey areas are tribal lands in this map from:

http://cfdcnv.com/phocadownload/Business_Development_Guide_update_Apr_2014.pdf

 

[zecats]

Looking at 7 km up the OK Forest Service logging road, off 97C N.

Check first thread posts 313, 321, 323

Map and some comments / suggestive corrections from locals.

 

[zecats]

Is this indigenous land?

Parts of it are.

And here’s a link to FB page about Ben
American Cowboy, Ben Tyner, missing in Merritt,BC
Under photos and tips there is another map of ranch location and horse location.

 

[MistyWaters]

Looking at 7 km up the OK Forest Service logging road, off 97C N.

From everything I’ve noticed, the horse was found on a logging road off of Hwy 97c. Lower Nicola has been mentioned a couple times - the Indian Band who was assisting in the search and where the horse was initially corralled by the trapper while awaiting ID. I also noticed somewhere that this same band had granted logging rights of their land and there’s a sawmill nearby. The reserve consists of land on both sides of Hwy 97c.

For that reason I’d always assumed the truck trailer had passed through Merritt and Gunny was found on a logging road off 97c somewhere around where Lower Nicola is marked on your map. I could be wrong though.

Whether the area where the horse was found was reserve land, other private land or Crown land, it’s not been said.

This below also suggests the search area is directly north of Merritt, between the two highways.

“The search area is currently about a 15-kilometre radius north of Merritt in the area between Highway 97C and the Coquihalla (hwy 5)

Along with man-power and technology, local knowledge has also been utilized from members of the Lower Nicola Indian Band.”
Searchers narrow time frame of Merritt cowboy's disappearance

 

[MistyWaters]

“RCMP Sgt. Janelle Shoihet says officers are seeking any video footage, including sequences from dashboard-mounted cameras on vehicles passing through Merritt or the Nicola Valley between Friday, Jan. 25 and Sunday, Jan. 27.”
https://www.abbynews.com/news/rcmp-...m-video-in-disappearance-of-cowboy-ben-tyner/

As police were requesting dashcam footage in these location is another reason I think the route in question doesn’t go directly north up Hwy 5 because if so, it doesn’t pass through Merritt.

@otto. It’s great to visualize the area via map, thanks for joining us here!

 

[otto]

From everything I’ve noticed, the horse was found on a logging road off of Hwy 97c. Lower Nicola has been mentioned a couple times - the Indian Band who was assisting in the search and where the horse was initially corralled by the trapper while awaiting ID. I also noticed somewhere that this same band had granted logging rights of their land and there’s a sawmill nearby. The reserve consists of land on both sides of Hwy 97c.

For that reason I’d always assumed the truck trailer had passed through Merritt and Gunny was found on a logging road off 97c somewhere around where Lower Nicola is marked on your map. I could be wrong though.

Whether the area where the horse was found was reserve land, other private land or Crown land, it’s not been said.

This below also suggests the search area is directly north of Merritt, between the two highways.

“The search area is currently about a 15-kilometre radius north of Merritt in the area between Highway 97C and the Coquihalla (hwy 5)

Along with man-power and technology, local knowledge has also been utilized from members of the Lower Nicola Indian Band.”
Searchers narrow time frame of Merritt cowboy's disappearance

Thank you! Does this look right? One map is of the original search area, the other is based on the suggestion that the search should be farther North.

 

[otto]

“RCMP Sgt. Janelle Shoihet says officers are seeking any video footage, including sequences from dashboard-mounted cameras on vehicles passing through Merritt or the Nicola Valley between Friday, Jan. 25 and Sunday, Jan. 27.”
https://www.abbynews.com/news/rcmp-...m-video-in-disappearance-of-cowboy-ben-tyner/

As police were requesting dashcam footage in these location is another reason I think the route in question doesn’t go directly north up Hwy 5 because if so, it doesn’t pass through Merritt.

@otto. It’s great to visualize the area via map, thanks for joining us here!

That's what I'm wondering as well. It's possible to travel from the Nicola Ranch to the location where the horse was found without passing through Merritt. Maybe there's CCTV footage in Merritt that gives some information, but police are looking for more details and to confirm a route with dashcam footage. Ideally, I suppose they would like to see a horse trailer turning onto the backroads to where the horse was found.

If this was murder, why would RCMP be looking for him in the same area as where the horse was found? Wouldn't the horse be left in the wrong area to give the impression that Ben had a horse riding accident, and his body would be in a completely different location?

 

[zecats]

That's what I'm wondering as well. It's possible to travel from the Nicola Ranch to the location where the horse was found without passing through Merritt. Maybe there's CCTV footage in Merritt that gives some information, but police are looking for more details and to confirm a route with dashcam footage. Ideally, I suppose they would like to see a horse trailer turning onto the backroads to where the horse was found.

If this was murder, why would RCMP be looking for him in the same area as where the horse was found? Wouldn't the horse be left in the wrong area to give the impression that Ben had a horse riding accident, and his body would be in a completely different location?

At first it WAS thought to be a riding accident. Most likely that was the purpose of taking the horse out. IMO Ben’s body is somewhere else. Read from MSM and SAR back in Feb 5, after a week of searching. I believe things started to seem suspicious finally after no trace of Ben was found anywhere near where Gunny (his horse) was found. And no one had volunteered info that Ben had been trailered out there.

Search For Missing Wyoming Cowboy Suspended

“Part of the work we’ve been trying to do is piece together a timeline and piece together information about how Ben was transported — was he transported by a trailer — and we don’t have any confirmation of that at all,” search-and-rescue incident commander Paul Berry said. “Nothing has been identified at this point to indicate Ben or any of his footprints or any sign of Ben in relation to the horse.”

 

[Trudie]

If this was murder, why would RCMP be looking for him in the same area as where the horse was found? Wouldn't the horse be left in the wrong area to give the impression that Ben had a horse riding accident, and his body would be in a completely different location?

Hey @otto imo when the horse was found LE launched a ground search thinking Ben was injured from a riding mishap. We can all assume, as well as hope, they immediately conducted interviews & started a MP investigation. They had no idea where to search except where Gunny was found, imo.

I think one can get from the ranch to the logging road without going to Merritt. The reason I think one could is because the holding company for NR owns over 1200 pieces of real estate (linked previously). Imo, adjacent land would offer a shortcut, of sorts.

All speculation.

ETA: Did LE wait too long to request video? If not, they must have had a massive response. Seems to me like a large area. Especially with Nicola Valley included.

RCMP Sgt. Janelle Shoihet says officers are seeking any video footage, including sequences from dashboard-mounted cameras on vehicles passing through Merritt or the Nicola Valley between Friday, Jan. 25 and Sunday, Jan. 27.

 

[Trudie]

At first it WAS thought to be a riding accident. Most likely that was the purpose of taking the horse out. IMO Ben’s body is somewhere else. Read from MSM and SAR back in Feb 5, after a week of searching. I believe things started to seem suspicious finally after no trace of Ben was found anywhere near where Gunny (his horse) was found. And no one had volunteered info that Ben had been trailered out there.

Search For Missing Wyoming Cowboy Suspended

“Part of the work we’ve been trying to do is piece together a timeline and piece together information about how Ben was transported — was he transported by a trailer — and we don’t have any confirmation of that at all,” search-and-rescue incident commander Paul Berry said. “Nothing has been identified at this point to indicate Ben or any of his footprints or any sign of Ben in relation to the horse.”

Maybe we need to do a Timeline thread, with msm links.
Then we won’t have to repeatedly post old & possibly moot links. We can just jump to the Timeline thread. It would make it easier. Jmo