CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

[ttcRider]

Was pondering Det Sgt Ryan appearing rather young looking in the new Fifth Estate episode. That's good of course, but something seemed different to me.

Here is a shot of him from March 2012.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/father-stepmother-charged-in-cold-case-homicide-1.784877

The Fifth Estate had many shots in this episode from the past. Just wondering.

Well it wouldnt be stress related because I think I've aged 10yrs this week; I'm moving out of the city EOM. :floorlaugh:

 

[Woodland]

The bike damage was minor - it could have been ridden. Small dent to a pedal, carrier and kickstand depending on what you read.

 

[Dedpanman]

Was pondering Det Sgt Ryan appearing rather young looking in the new Fifth Estate episode. That's good of course, but something seemed different to me.

Here is a shot of him from March 2012.

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/father-stepmother-charged-in-cold-case-homicide-1.784877

The Fifth Estate had many shots in this episode from the past. Just wondering.

Oh, man - that case. I'm pretty familiar with that one, too, and have been to the spot where she was found. Gives one hope that cold cases can be solved. That one was "solved" by a phone call. That was probably Ryan's reference for saying what he did on The Fifth Estate. Yeah, he did look young, but that's what lights and make up can do to you.

 

[jobo]

I watched the 5th Estate too, and was glad to hear that the Police say the case is not closed, and that there is a PI still looking into it. I was intrigued by the DNA comment from Ryan.
I agree with a lot that Mangano said, except for where Christine was taken from. I have always thought she was taken from her home. Witness accounts are too all over the place to accept any of them as being fact.
I also contend that there has to be a connection with the perp and the trailer property. It is the last driveway on your right (heading east) before the stop sign. It look private due to the trees/bush around the property.
I have a hard time thinking a perp would just randomly pick this property, I think that way even more so after hearing about the car always parked there. I think there is some connection with the perp and that property. I wonder how far the Police and the PI have looked into that angle.
Wouldn't a perp be more apt to just dispose of a body on uninhabited land, unless they have a connection to a property? What I mean is that several bodies have been found north of the GTA...not on someone's property, just randomly out in the bush/side of the road type crime. Wouldn't that be a perp's natural method unless he knew of a trailer out in the bush where the guy wasn't visiting since the wife had died.
There was a hundred other places the perp could have disposed of Christine's body...even on Concession 4.

 

[Woodland]

Hey jobo - very much like your observations.

I think the connection will be through WPS maternal grandfather. Really need those tax old tax records though.

 

[marikesh]

Another thought on the holes in Christine's shirt/sweater that had small holes in front surrounded by blood stains ... ravens or crows may pick through the clothing and then they will just keep going deeper through that hole.
Not that I am comparing this poor child Christine to an animal however one hunting season some hunters shot and left our cow to die. By the time I felt it safe enough (from hunters shooting wild) to check the cattle, I found the cow with small holes pecked through her hide and the ravens or crows had been feeding. There was an initial blood stain around the holes on the hide.
This would mean though that Christine would have been in that spot almost immediately before the blood congealed.

 

[Woodland]

Thanks for that comparison marikesh - I see the similarity and possibility. I beg to differ though that Christine was in that spot only when the holes occurred. We don't know what caused the holes. Jmo.

 

[Woodland]

Dedpanman - since you have a copy of the recent Fifth Estate episode, and you are extremely adept at posting screen grabs etc, can you possibly look at the following?

About 34 - 35 minutes into the episode (was watching a rerun just now), during the GPM segment, the camera pans across some dried grass and briefly shows what looks like a blue metal canister lying on the ground. Would like to be able to look at that more closely and see what it is.

Pretty please? It's been a while since that phrase was used.

 

[matou]

I wonder which one(s) of the proposed suspects was/were obsessed with searching Christine's case and was/were adamant about Morin's "guilt"? I'm sure the perp was more than happy the heat was off him and on Morin instead. I knew some people who were adamant of GPM's guilt even up until his exoneration. My hunch is that her killer was one of them. JMO

 

[matou]

The fifth estate episode is available online right now.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2012-2013/2012/09/kingston-pen-secrets-and-lies.html

 

[Dedpanman]

Dedpanman - since you have a copy of the recent Fifth Estate episode, and you are extremely adept at posting screen grabs etc, can you possibly look at the following?

About 34 - 35 minutes into the episode (was watching a rerun just now), during the GPM segment, the camera pans across some dried grass and briefly shows what looks like a blue metal canister lying on the ground. Would like to be able to look at that more closely and see what it is.

Pretty please? It's been a while since that phrase was used.

I believe the object you're referring to is the blue Sealtest milk carton that was found at the scene. I will check again and post the image.

 

[Dedpanman]

Some pictures that are relevant to our discussions.

 

[Dedpanman]

I wonder which one(s) of the proposed suspects was/were obsessed with searching Christine's case and was/were adamant about Morin's "guilt"? I'm sure the perp was more than happy the heat was off him and on Morin instead. I knew some people who were adamant of GPM's guilt even up until his exoneration. My hunch is that her killer was one of them. JMO

Interesting thoughts.
Check this out (see attachment).

I wonder who wrote it?
Someone who had a good reason to keep the attention focused on GPM?

 

[matou]

Wow, was that letter from the first trial?

 

[jobo]

That is the first I have heard about that threatening note sent to GPM. Looks like an older person wrote it, not a young person...in my view.

 

[Wondergirl]

I would like to see a handwriting analysis on this letter.

 

[Wondergirl]

All FOUR?

 

[matou]

Was that letter published in Makin's book, it seems familiar to me. Four people didn't write that letter, it was likely written by one older person not a teen, IMO. Weirdness but lots of people from the area hated his guts, someone who knew he didn't help with the search for Christine.

 

[Dedpanman]

Was that letter published in Makin's book, it seems familiar to me. Four people didn't write that letter, it was likely written by one older person not a teen, IMO. Weirdness but lots of people from the area hated his guts, someone who knew he didn't help with the search for Christine.

The letter appears in the first edition of Redrum. It was omitted from the revised edition. Again, I have to say that I am reeling from the enormous changes from book to book. There's lots of valuable information that was lost from the first edition. And some amazing speculation on Makin's part at the end of the first edition. It's really good.

Here's an example of a valuable tidbit that was lost from book to book:

On page 782 of the first edition, Makin writes that the Jessop phone records show that no calls were made from the house around the time C would have arrived home. Now, he does take some creative liberty in both versions of the book by imagining that Christine tried to call Chipman after arriving home - but the line was busy - so no call was connected - and no call would have showed up in the records. But the fact that phone records show no calls made is important and is missing from the revised edition.

Some people on this thread have Christine using the phone in their various scenarios.
Forget that, then.

 

[Dedpanman]

SUSPECT: “PHIL BRENNAN” (pseudonym)


From the Redrum The Innocent (First Edition):
(point form notes from pgs 65-69 and 99-103, some notes rearranged for clarity)

- Phil Brennan was an unremarkable, 46-year-old man with little talent or social grace
- moustachioed, six-foot tall
- lived in a filthy, unkempt home only a few kilometres south of the Sunderland field where Christine would eventually be found
- tattoo of an eagle on his arm
- had already done a stretch in prison
- described as a “ne’er-do-well”
- an alcoholic
- described as petty and consumed by absurd jealousies
- constantly abused and berated his own children so they had little self-worth
- had a domineering mother
- he gained sexual satisfaction from pain
- had homosexual and group-sex experiences in his youth
- admitted to being gang-raped as a child
- once tied up his ex-wife “Trudy” and sexually assaulted her
- was into kiddie and violent sex
- was uncontrolled when drunk
- was easily dominated by most adults, so he gravitated towards children but they found him repulsive
- owned a knife
- described as a nasty, slow-witted pervert with enormous libido
- described by Makin as a hillbilly
- in November of 1984, “Trudy” (pseudonym) approached child-welfare services to tell them about her ex-husband, Phil Brennan, and his sexual molestation of their 5-year old daughter
- “Trudy” and her daughter left Brennan in September of 1984 (stressor?)
- “Trudy” felt that Brennan might be capable of abducting a child
- he had also molested his 8-year old daughter from a previous marriage 12-15 years prior but it was never reported
- Brennan had used a gun to extort sexual favours from a daughter of a previous marriage
- Durham Regional police were informed of the molestation by social services
- Brennan admitted to placing his penis near his daughter’s mouth but wouldn’t admit to anything further
- Durham police searched his house and found
- they arrested him
- Durham police contacted York Regional police (they were investigating Christine’s disappearance at the time) and told them about Brennan because they felt he might be connected
- police learned that Brennan was on his own during the time that Christine was taken
- he worked with heavy equipment at a construction job in Toronto
- Brennan would leave his construction job in Toronto around 3:00 pm and drive north through Queensville on a daily basis
- Brennan passed through Queensville around 4:00 pm most days
- after Brennan’s arrest by Durham police, he was granted bail
- Durham police were afraid that if he was involved in Christine’s disappearance, this close call with law enforcement might scare him into destroying any evidence he might have
- York Regional police discovered that Brennan had called in sick from September 25 until October 12 (1984)
- when York Regional police confronted Brennan about the Jessop case and asked him where he was on October 3, Brennan lied and said he was at work
- when police told him that they knew he had called in sick for the period in question, Brennan invented a story saying he was at home making preserves for winter (in other words – he had no alibi)
- after Christine’s body was found in Sunderland – not far from Brennan's house - he was back on the police radar
- Durham Regional police obtained a warrant to search Brennan’s house south of the Sunderland body site from January 5-6, 1985
- before the search happened, Brennan agreed to take a polygraph - when it was suggested by police
- during the polygraph, Brennan was asked questions about his involvement in Christine’s abduction and murder
- he denied involvement
- Brennan passed the polygraph
- because he passed the polygraph, the search warrant for his residence was never executed
- the investigation continued on and Brennan was no longer considered a suspect

NOTE: polygraphs were not, and are not 100% reliable. Examples – Bob Jessop who was in jail when Christine was abducted, FAILED his polygraph. Was it a good move for Durham to discount this suspect on the basis of a passed polygraph? Gary Ridgway (The Green River Killer) took and passed a polygraph – then went right on killing prostitutes.