CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

[Woodland]

I read the above as her head was at a higher location than her legs with bones lying in between. The head being detached and the upper torso bones being detached.

 

[matou]

http://www.aidwyc.org/Documents/Inquiries/Kaufman Inquiry/Kaufman_Report_Vol2.pdf
This suggests the" appearance" of the head looked unusual.

"
A sweater was
pulled over her head. A few bones were scattered between her head and what
remained of her legs, giving the appearance that her head and waist were not
connected"

That wording is so difficult to understand. Were not connected to the rest of her body? To each other? (which would never make sense) Her WAIST was not connected? What is that supposed to mean? The waist isn't a bone at all.

 

[Woodland]

Fred Patterson and Bernie Fitzpatrick are not quoted anywhere saying her head was between her legs. They both saw socks on her feet - neither said the sweaters/blouse etc were in between the socks. BF is quoted in RR as the ball of clothing was off to the side.

 

[dotr]

Fred Patterson and Bernie Fitzpatrick are not quoted anywhere saying her head was between her legs. They both saw socks on her feet - neither said the sweaters/blouse etc were in between the socks. BF is quoted in RR as the ball of clothing was off to the side.

Not yet verified info., but the head was referred to in this post.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville ON, 3 October 1984 UNSOLVED

 

[Woodland]

RR does not mention Christine's remains were found in a sitting position.

 

[dotr]

I posted this on my facebook group "Justice For Christine Jessop"

JP (name redacted) Killed Christine.
And Metro Police Are Covering it up!
Or more correctly burying the case itself!
JP (name redacted) is dead. He was a friend of my dads who worked at the co-op. He was a predatory pedophile. Police will not fully investigate him.
He drove the blue car that was seen at the end of our driveway the day Christine went missing. The same blue car seen turning onto Ravenshoe rd holding aq child down. The same car seen in durham. His description matches the person slamming their trunk down that night at the scene.
I was threatened to take my post down almost immediately a year ago. I am not afraid cause the cop who did it got arrested for smuggling cheese...LOL

JP (name redacted) was reported to my lawyer and police during the inquiry. Unknowingly I began dating his step daughter in 2002. She told me things I related to police.. Then she had a long interview with them. They said they took dna from his son and he was cleared.. Problem was it was his step-son.. When I corrected them a couple years ago.... They stated they got dna from his natural son SP (name redacted) in Barrie... Trouble is, he didn't live in Barrie. But they won't listen... See, SP is a confidential YRP informant... Who turns a lot of people in for drugs in Newmarket where he lives on Queen st. Not in Barrie.. But the police don't listen anymore....

All three of JP's daughters have stated there was a fight on oct.3/84 because Jim didn't get home till late.....

But no one will listen.


Yes Woodland it is me. I appreciate the thread and keeping the case alive... But I don't even know where to start correcting here... I wasn't going to post here but..... What bothers me most is the speculation about how she was found. <Mod Snip>. She was found legs splayed, sitting up, her head was balled up in her sweater. She had been decapitated. The bones were found the way they were because they slid off thesheet of plywood they removed her on. I can't explain the dreams... They made me look nuts. But I am glad I had them. I was raped for 5 years. My abuser wanted to see us simulate things for him... He grew tired of that and went back to abusing me. I tried to have him charged but his uncle was the head of detectives for Metro. Christine was taken from home. She DID go to the store, the owner testified at both trials about that. Leslie chipman is the only person that says she was Christines best friend. She was Christines bully and Christine wanted nothing to do with her..... Everything she said is as reliable as Kim Waarner.. Pure BS. The guy who said he saw her was only brought up by the fifth estate special... Another publicity . Thats why the driver never saw. It never happened. He never mentioned the bike, what she was wearing etc. She was taken by my dads friend... He was one of only4 people that knew my dad was gone. He could see our house from the co-op. Leslie Chipmans performance at the inquiry was inspired.... But she lied. Her guilt lies in the fact she bullied Christine. I don't know what else to say. My statement is fact. He told her he was taking her to see her dad. When he went the wrong way she knew. Thats why at Ravenshoe he was pushing her down and seen....
Thats all I can think of right now...

Bbm.Not sure if this is a known fact.

 

[Woodland]

Found sitting up is not a fact described or reported anywhere.

It isn't possible to make an unconscious person sit up - pretty sure the same is true for a deceased person. Rigor comes and goes. Christine is not described as being held in a sitting position with anything - rocks etc.

Christine is likely to have been spotted sooner by FP (walked the property about 4 times prior to discovery) if in a sitting position.

Decapitation is also described as an attempt at decapitation from the back of the neck and was unsuccessful - disarticulation of the neck bones would happen in conjunction with disarticulation of the upper torso bones. This falls in line with BF description of the balled clothing off to one side.

 

[Woodland]

This is from "Proceedings of the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs" Issue 44 - Evidence I post it here to provide context for those of you who don't know what happened after GPM was cleared in 1995 by the DNA evidence.

OTTAWA, Thursday, November 26, 1998

Detective Sergeant Neale Tweedy, Toronto Police Service, Canadian Police Association:

When the killer was tired of Christine, evidence revealed he stabbed her about the front and the back of her tiny body. He then slashed her throat with such force that she was nearly decapitated.

Her body was left lying on her back, nude from the waste down, her legs splayed apart, alone in the woods.

Above is a portion of post #84 on page 4.

Neale Tweedy describes Christine as nearly decapitated and left lying on her back. While Tweedy is not my favorite character in this saga, he was going for the shock effect to help put a DNA database in place. If there were any other gruesome details in how she was left, I think he would have included them - he was not anticipating in 1998 that this would someday be available on the internet.

 

[marikesh]

The sentence following that which is bolded by Dotr:

The bones were found the way they were because they slid off thesheet of plywood they removed her on.

Perhaps that is what is meant by found sitting up?

Found sitting up is not a fact described or reported anywhere.

I don't know if the Jessop family were present when police collected the remains, however I would imagine the family would have been notified and been present at the place Christine's remains were taken to. Whatever they saw or were told by investigating officers may be entirely different than most of what was printed in media. It is often the case.

Christine is likely to have been spotted sooner by FP (walked the property about 4 times prior to discovery) if in a sitting position.

Christine was tiny, and several pages back, Dedpanman described the weed growth in the area as quite tall.


<modnsip>

 

[Woodland]

I don't recall Janet Jessop's or KJessop's memory being questioned here at any time - the questions come from information presented by various sources - some of that information is often questioned.

When information from various sources has consistencies then it lends some credibility - the reader has to decide what they believe or are willing to believe.

Discrediting someone is not what is being posted here - it's the information. To say one perceives nuances to discredit someone is pretty strong - and it's just that, a perception. A question should be posed to request clarification.

 

[marikesh]

Information from various sources can be doctored as well. We have seen many errors, which prove to be errors later, on various cases. So I also am leery about taking for granted all that is reported. Most media say the same thing, just use different wording and it doesn't mean it is totally credible.

 

[Woodland]

Marikesh - many here question media reports and the poster says they are doing that. I believe that is part of the process here. By the same token, comparing a comment made by an individual with no back-up is equally important.

I was hoping for an answer to the strong statement 'nuances to discredit what he says (KJessop) throughout these posts' - meaning posts on WS. It was not posed as a question so came across in a negative way.

Which posts question the memory of Janet Jessop and KJessop?

I agree no one seemed bothered by JJ recent interview - unsure why anyone would question that. Another book written outside the family? - what is the relevance to Christine being found prone or sitting up?

 

[Chorley8]

No way intend this to disrespect anyone's hard sleuthing here but I am somewhat sceptical of the value of our emphasis on the minutiae of the crime scene in particular as this now seems to some extent to be beyond certainty. One thing is obvious: Christine was mistreated unspeakably by someone and obviously she was posed in some manner but finding out how she was posed and what exactly was done to her let alone why - this seems unlikely to lead us to the killer (?).

I can understand if we are trying to link up cases but I haven't heard it suggested that this is likely to be possible since similar cases don't seem to have surfaced (?).

But I think maybe I am missing something if someone can explain.

(For example I think Dotr's "theory" of the head in a sweater between the legs as a birthing/swaddling gesture is brilliant but then we run into the fact that we don't know if it was found that way. Actually years ago I had heard that her head was impaled on a stick which I realize is not the case).

 

[Chorley8]

Just to add but separately:

Is there evidence of a cover-up? If the answer to that is yes then following the trail of the cover-up could be the quickest root to the killer since a cover-up suggests the perp is actually known ....to somebody. Of course we are waiting for KJ's status to be verified but some of what he has said has been challenged e.g. the fact about the stop light. I think he has a piece of the truth though. I have always thought it likely there is a link between the abuse meted out to KJ and CJ (even if simulated sex is what happened) and the final crime. It is just overwhelmingly likely from a logical point of view. I do think we are dealing with a group not a single deranged passerby and as Dotr suggested way back (hope I have this right) there might be a link to Sharin Keenan in terms of milieau if not actual perp. I think it is possible to overfocus on the DNA though of course it is important. Yes there might be two perps ........or 30.

One thing those two cases might have in common: were they both going to "tell"?

 

[Woodland]

Imo, the value in keeping with information that can be verified (whether one believes it or not) is keeping the unsubstantiated information out of the thread.

What would be the point in having many items posted here that have no source for the origin? As in her head impaled on a stick?

Each minutiae point is a part of the big picture.

 

[Dedpanman]

The bones were found the way they were because they slid off thesheet of plywood they removed her on. I can't explain the dreams... They made me look nuts. But I am glad I had them.

Marikesh - I believe that the bones KJessop is referring to here are the ones he found when he and his parents went back to the site long after the police were done. These are the bones that he collected and put into a styrofoam cup and took to the Sunderland police station. They went there because KJessop was having dreams that the police had missed things, and that his sister was not complete in her grave.

 

[marikesh]

Thank you. That makes better sense now.

 

[Chorley8]

I am not sure why the second discovery of bones is treated so easily here as a kind of miracle. I don't think is shows madness but it shows...knowledge.

Also when intimates of a case post or appear to it is worth a look at the immediate discussion and posts to see what prompted their sudden clubbing or even intervention.

I don't think it is the discussion of the minutiae of the crime scene. I think it might be any kind of discussion that brings things closer to home hence the admonitions to focus on the ultimate crime scene in instead. As I have said I think the pile of bones is religious in character I mean religious in the broadest sense and expiatory.

The info about Det. O. and the sons of is crucial though since it links up crimes and probably coverups. IMO the perp is known in the CJ case and unknown in the SMK case even if LE claim it is known in the latter but that per is a construction, a cipher IMO.

 

[Chorley8]

Not to get carried away with this but the overall context of this type of severe crime and the inability to solve them has an overall context which might be found more easily in the history in Ontario and Canada of organized crime against children in the residential schools e.g. in Brantford. From the aboriginal viewpoint there are "killing fields" in Ontario and elsewhere. Obviously the abuse extends throughout other orgs. like Scouting and figure skating and religious orgs. majorly Catholic and Anglican (for Ontario) but others too including protector agencies for perps in gov. agencies including police and schools like UCC.

That is why we have to be cautious about using media and books what are basically unprofessional books by crime writers as "sources" - I realize on WS we have little choice because we don't have access to police files but they are not "sources" that would past the muster of even academic writing.

Poring over the conflicting data of injuries to CJ leads nowhere at this point IMO because of the extraordinary amount of overkill that doesn't point to any plausible suspect we know of including Kjessop's suspect. I mean it is interesting but I think it is leading away from the discovery of the probably very plural perps.

 

[ttcRider]

O/T ~ Highway of Tears is on 48Hrs Mystery tonight. Hope it brings some answers.