Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

[Keswick84]

I think some articles have mistakingly assumed CH lived in Queensville. There is no record of him there or mention of it by the family. They would "come up" for bbqs according to Janet Jessop, meaning CH lived south at the time.

 

[Tadpole12]

Yes it is believable that the press got this detail wrong.

 

[Keswick84]

Yes it is believable that the press got this detail wrong.

He was rather specific in that video about how they met and where he lived. It makes sense that he didn't live in Queensville, no attention to paid to him.

 

[Vern]

It does seem HH was heavily involved in the Jessop’s family dynamics from the reports. I do wonder why Christine’s mother called her that day and told her Christine would be home alone. Was she hoping she’d babysit Christine? She wouldn’t have been a convenient babysitter since HH lived in Toronto so it’s not like they lived next door, plus HH had younger kids of her own so it’s not like she could have come out to their house easily to babysit. Also, there was a bit of an age difference between them. If CH was 28 at the time, then HH must have been in her mid 20’s while Christine’s mother would have been closer to 40 at that time, based on her current age. I don’t imagine them to be super close friends with a 10-15 year age difference? So many questions! I hope she sheds more light about her ex husband to the police once she overcomes her nervous breakdown!

There was an article linked earlier with the son stating that his mother had called HH to let her know they'd be visiting her husband in jail and she wanted to know if there was anything "they needed to pass on to him from work while they visited". HH worked with CJ's father at that time. During the call, CJ is said to have thrown a tantrum because she wasn't being allowed to go visit her father with them that day. Thought is that HH mentioned this to CH or that he overheard the tantrum and knew she'd be alone.

Interesting that the family has always held to the belief that it HAD to be someone who knew CJ would be alone that fateful day. Being that only 3 other people knew this, I am shocked that HH and her hubby CH were not thoroughly questioned or treated as POIs. IMO, if they were, did she alibi him up?

 

[Keswick84]

Remember how messed up this case was from the beginning regarding the time CJ got home etc. The Kaufman Report also makes the point that GPM did not help search or attend the funeral and that the detectives belived that was important. CH did help search and attended the funeral, so it's possible he was excluded as a suspect partially due to that.

 

[Vern]

I'm confused as to whether CH was ever (or when) a neighbour in Queensville.
KJ says that the CH family lived in Toronto at the time of Christine's abduction. Yet news reports suggest otherwise.

They had lived in Queensville prior to the murder, but had moved to Toronto by the time of the murder. According to CJ's family, even after the Hoovers moved to Toronto, they still regularly visited them (and the kids all played together) in Queensville though.

 

[sibyl3]

I'm confused as to whether CH was ever (or when) a neighbour in Queensville.
KJ says that the CH family lived in Toronto at the time of Christine's abduction. Yet news reports suggest otherwise.

He was their neighbour in Richmond Hill and then they moved to Queensville.

 

[pinkmauvepurple]

I think some articles have mistakingly assumed CH lived in Queensville. There is no record of him there or mention of it by the family. They would "come up" for bbqs according to Janet Jessop, meaning CH lived south at the time.

Interesting! So you think CH lived in Toronto in 1984?

 

[Deleted member 275109]

If I understand correctly, the Hoovers and the Jessops were neighbours in Richmond Hill. The Jessops moved to Queensville while the Hoover’s moved to Toronto. Therefore they WERE neighbours, FORMER neighbours, but they still socialized after they all moved. They were not neighbours in Queensville.

 

[Deleted member 275109]

A number of news websites quote Ken Jessop saying something that confuses me. For example on Oct. 16/20, CP24 reports:

“Ken Jessop said that before leaving the house his mother had called Hoover’s wife while Christine “was having a tantrum because she had wanted to go see her father” too.

He said that he suspects Hoover’s wife would have heard the commotion and maybe even mentioned it in passing to her husband.

“He saw his opportunity and his chance and he took it. There was nothing random about this,” he said. “I always said it was somebody that knew my father was in jail and used the pickup line of I will take you to see your father. I am sure he was at the house waiting when she (Christine) got back from the store.”

I don’t understand how Janet Jessop called Mrs. Hoover just before they left the house to go visit the jail, while Christine was throwing a temper tantrum in the background. Wasn’t she in school??? Isn’t that the official story, that she was in school, got a recorder, got on a school bus, and came home alone?? So how was she in the background throwing a temper tantrum while her mom made the call to Mrs. Hoover just before they left to go to the jail?

 

[Forest_Wood]

A number of news websites quote Ken Jessop saying something that confuses me. For example on Oct. 16/20, CP24 reports:

“Ken Jessop said that before leaving the house his mother had called Hoover’s wife while Christine “was having a tantrum because she had wanted to go see her father” too.

He said that he suspects Hoover’s wife would have heard the commotion and maybe even mentioned it in passing to her husband.

“He saw his opportunity and his chance and he took it. There was nothing random about this,” he said. “I always said it was somebody that knew my father was in jail and used the pickup line of I will take you to see your father. I am sure he was at the house waiting when she (Christine) got back from the store.”

I don’t understand how Janet Jessop called Mrs. Hoover just before they left the house to go visit the jail, while Christine was throwing a temper tantrum in the background. Wasn’t she in school??? Isn’t that the official story, that she was in school, got a recorder, got on a school bus, and came home alone?? So how was she in the background throwing a temper tantrum while her mom made the call to Mrs. Hoover just before they left to go to the jail?

Yes! And I find it peculiar that Ken Jessop, who was only 14 or 15 at the time, would even remember that detail of his mother calling HH and his sister making a fuss. Moreso, how would CH even know what time they would be arriving home from the jail? If the reports are accurate, Christine was at the store at 4 pm while JJ and KJ returned home at 4:10 pm. That left CH only a 10 minute window to show up at their house, get out of his vehicle and inside their house, hang up her jacket on a high hook, explain why he was there, and convince her to go somewhere with him. Then he had to get her into his car, and drive away with her not being restrained or hidden while his car and the Jessop’s car likely passed each other on the highway going in different directions?

 

[Forest_Wood]

There was an article linked earlier with the son stating that his mother had called HH to let her know they'd be visiting her husband in jail and she wanted to know if there was anything "they needed to pass on to him from work while they visited". HH worked with CJ's father at that time. During the call, CJ is said to have thrown a tantrum because she wasn't being allowed to go visit her father with them that day. Thought is that HH mentioned this to CH or that he overheard the tantrum and knew she'd be alone.

Interesting that the family has always held to the belief that it HAD to be someone who knew CJ would be alone that fateful day. Being that only 3 other people knew this, I am shocked that HH and her hubby CH were not thoroughly questioned or treated as POIs. IMO, if they were, did she alibi him up?

It doesn’t even seem that he was questioned by police so no alibi would have been needed? I would like to know what kind of job he had at the time and how he happened to have the free time to plan and execute it on a weekday and how he could pull that off in a 10 minute window between 4 - 4:10 p.m.

 

[Tadpole12]

A number of news websites quote Ken Jessop saying something that confuses me. For example on Oct. 16/20, CP24 reports:

“Ken Jessop said that before leaving the house his mother had called Hoover’s wife while Christine “was having a tantrum because she had wanted to go see her father” too.

He said that he suspects Hoover’s wife would have heard the commotion and maybe even mentioned it in passing to her husband.

“He saw his opportunity and his chance and he took it. There was nothing random about this,” he said. “I always said it was somebody that knew my father was in jail and used the pickup line of I will take you to see your father. I am sure he was at the house waiting when she (Christine) got back from the store.”

I don’t understand how Janet Jessop called Mrs. Hoover just before they left the house to go visit the jail, while Christine was throwing a temper tantrum in the background. Wasn’t she in school??? Isn’t that the official story, that she was in school, got a recorder, got on a school bus, and came home alone?? So how was she in the background throwing a temper tantrum while her mom made the call to Mrs. Hoover just before they left to go to the jail?

Yes. The story recounts like HH could hear CJ having a tantrum.
The call might have taken place before CJ caught the morning school bus,
Iirc KJ was allowed to take the full day off school.

ETA
'It all fits': Christine Jessop’s brother, Kenney, shares theory on how his sister was abducted by Calvin Hoover

"After visiting his father [East Detention Center], Kenny said he and Janet went to Sears to buy Kenny a watch, before travelling to the dentist."

 

[Deleted member 275109]

Yes. The story recounts like HH could hear CJ having a tantrum.
The call might have taken place before CJ caught the morning school bus,
Iirc KJ was allowed to take the full day off school.

I thought the same thing, but as a parent, I would not have time to call anyone in the morning before sending my kids to school. It’s just too hectic getting them fed, dressed, homework and lunches packed, all on time. Who has time to fit in a phone call to a friend? Also, Ken said she made the call before they left. Did they leave in the morning? It doesn’t sound like it.

 

[Deleted member 275109]

On page 29 of this thread, Tadpole 12 posted Ken’s quote that they were neighbours in Richmond Hill. They were not neighbours with Hoover in Queensville. I guess that’s why he escaped suspicion.

 

[Arnie M]

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1809388099785

Audio interview about the investigation.

thanks , good interview ..... It appears Linden MacIntyre .... just like many of us here , feels that someone like Hoover would have committed more (similar) crimes in the years afterward ... ... bolstered by a feeling of immunity from not getting caught for the Christine murder/assault

 

[Deleted member 275109]

Cool! Thanks for finding that!

 

[Satchie]

Just a few comments:

KJ's press statements reconstructing the relationship with the Hoovers, and the phone call with HH, IMO have been made after lengthy conversations with his mother. Obviously he wouldn't remember it, but she might (or might mis-remember, after all this time)

IMO CH would have been able to see at a glance that no was at home waiting for CJ because there was no car in the driveway.

However, I don't see why it matters, since no one missed CJ even when they did come home. She could have been playing with her friend at the park and no one was concerned for quite a long time.

IMO, the key point is, no one witnessed the abduction. IMO any other 'witness' statements attempting to reconstruct the crime, about CJ buying gum, or her jacket being hung up high, or not being seen by people in a trailer, etc, are simply useless, they were added by people who didn't witness anything but felt very upset that something bad happened without them seeing it. IMO these 'I didn't witness anything but I think I remember x' statements always confuse and complicate cases because they're usually inaccurate and unreliable. Unless there are multiple independent witnesses that can confirm something, I don't think any theory of the crime is required to take them into account.

The sure thing is she got off the bus with the recorder, and her body was found with the recorder.

This detail of the recorder being found beside her remains indicates to me she was taken straight to the site where her body was found. What kidnapper would bother keeping track of it, if he'd taken her somewhere else first.

 

[MsBetsy]

I thought the same thing, but as a parent, I would not have time to call anyone in the morning before sending my kids to school. It’s just too hectic getting them fed, dressed, homework and lunches packed, all on time. Who has time to fit in a phone call to a friend? Also, Ken said she made the call before they left. Did they leave in the morning? It doesn’t sound like it.

He said there were three people that his mother had told about the visit to the jail and that Christine would not be going. She could have made the call that morning or the night before. It's probably hard to remember every detail so many years later.

Anyway, what is relevant is that Hoover may have known beforehand that Christine would be alone that day when she got home from school.

Also, the timeline was misrepresented during the trial in order to fit the theory that Morin was responsible, since he said he didn't get home until later. Police suggested that the clock might have been slow, and they actually got home at 4:30 rather than 4:10. During the inquiry the final time was corrected to be closer to 4:10 pm.

It's still not known whether Christine was abducted from the home or near the store or on her way to the park. The coat on the peg was just speculation that someone else had hung it there. Nobody seemed to know that she even wore it that day. She was already wearing three layers, a blouse, a sweater, and a cardigan.

IMO

 

[Tadpole12]

'He saw his opportunity and he took it,' Family speaks with CP24 after police solve 1984 murder of Christine Jessop

@6:38
KJ: But in the morning, before we went to the jail,
my mother had phoned my father's lawyer, had phoned his boss, and had phoned Hoover's wife.
And when she was on the phone with Hoover's wife, Christine was having a tantrum because she wanted to go see her father. She hadn't seen her father in a month and she was told, you know you're too young Christine, you can't.
Heather sympathized with that and obviously must have told him.