Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

[SolVic]

Yes. I previously linked his 2nd wife Joanne Rocca's obituary, it may have been removed, or you missed it?

Ah, I missed it. Now I feel silly. My bad.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Where she was found. There is no mention of exactly where they lived, just that they lived nearby. They heard the screams at night but I don't know if they mentioned a time.

It was probably close to dark by the time he got her there. It gets dark early in October, by about 6:30 or 7:00 pm.

 

[photographer4]

One aspect of the case that is still unknown is how much CH fits the 'typical' profile of a sexual predator. From the point of view of investigators, he had an apparently good marriage and kids: IMO that, in itself, may have ruled him out as a suspect.

John Douglas from the FBI, happened to create a criminal profile of Christine's killer. Like everything else in this case, the profile became part of the whole schmozzle of trying to convict and then exonerate Morin.

But for me, there is also a more general interest in how some of these genetic research convictions may be contradicting some of the long-held beliefs of psychological profilers. For example, both CH and the golden state killer had longterm marriages and children, whereas the profiles are almost always of loners.

I don't have access to John Douglas's book "journey into darkness", where he outlines his profile. The profile is not available on any news sites, only in blogs and so forth that I don't want to quote. Does anyone have that book?

I may be quite mistaken here, but....

I just read through Joanne Hoover’s obituary. All those people who left condolences for the monster... Can you imagine how shocked and stunned they all were when they heard the news about the monster’s past? Imagine her family, siblings, nieces and nephews, all realizing she was married to an absolute animal. I hope none of those children were left alone in his presence. I hope they had a head’s up and didn’t have to hear about it from their local evening news.

IMO its unlikely extended family / friends of his deceased wife got any sort of heads up. I was over here wondering how his ex-wife's children found out since she had some sort of nervous breakdown upon finding out... who told her kids?

 

[Forest_Wood]

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1809388099785

Audio interview about the investigation.

The profile prepared by the FBI Behavioural Science Unit of the killer: “White. Between the age of 19 and 26. He lives in Queensville. He is a night person. He is a sloppy dresser. Not well groomed.” The FBI got at least a couple of things wrong. The age. Where he lived. I wonder how they’d conclude he was a night person, not well groomed and a sloppy dresser? The FBI profile would have skewed the investigation imo.

 

[photographer4]

Where are you getting your information? Wasn't it reported that the couple lived in Waterdown?

Well, if he did live in Waterdown, its only a 40m drive according to google maps to Etobicoke... and I'm wondering if perhaps he was in the area when Nicole Morin vanished not quite a year after Christine....?

 

[photographer4]

I don't think she called HH to tell her Christine would be home alone. According to her son, she called her and told her they were visiting her husband in jail. Apparently Christine was complaining in the background because she wanted to go too, and he speculated that HH may have overheard this and told her husband. At least that's how I understood it.

Christine would not have needed a babysitter since they arrived home at around 4:10 pm, about 25 or 30 minutes after Christine got off the bus and probably only minutes after she had been abducted. She had planned to meet her best friend at the park but never made it. I wonder if Hoover offered to give her a ride there.

Since she took the recorder with her, and we've not heard reports of anyone seeing a kid freaking out in a car / van or whatever vehicle he used along whatever route he took.... I'm inclined to think that its more likely he told her they were going to her father in jail as KJ has suggested. I imagine she was probably pretty happy in the car, probably played the recorder, and didn't realize she was being led to her death.

 

[DSCrime]

If the two detectives were as bad as it seems they were then they may not even have questioned Hoover. Further, it's quite possible that Hoover taking part in the search efforts and attending the funeral eliminated him as a suspect in the cops' minds. They noted that Morin did the opposite and used it against him.

I feel like anything Morin did would have been used against him b/c of LE's tunnel vision. He clearly was in a no-win situation. If he did attend the funeral & take part in search efforts it could have been construed by LE as inserting himself into the investigation, trying to tamper w/ evidence, etc.

 

[sibyl3]

deleted

 

[sibyl3]

Since she took the recorder with her, and we've not heard reports of anyone seeing a kid freaking out in a car / van or whatever vehicle he used along whatever route he took.... I'm inclined to think that its more likely he told her they were going to her father in jail as KJ has suggested. I imagine she was probably pretty happy in the car, probably played the recorder, and didn't realize she was being led to her death.

There were a couple of reports by people in the area that they had seen a blue car and someone subduing a child while driving. I don't think there is certainty of the accuracy of these statements, but there seems to have been more than one reported. One mentioned Ravenshoe Road.

 

[MsBetsy]

It was probably close to dark by the time he got her there. It gets dark early in October, by about 6:30 or 7:00 pm.

Yes, that's what I was thinking. After reading the other thread, I discovered it was Fred Patterson's wife who said she heard screaming that night. Patterson was the neighbor who discovered the body when he was out walking the dog with his two daughters. The body was very well hidden in an isolated area.

The person who owned the trailer, the Cull's son, was the one who reported smelling a foul odor near the end of October. He was one of the first POI's questioned by police, according to K Jessup.

Another reason they believed she was attacked and killed in that location was because the second autopsy showed that her throat was so deeply cut it was partially severed from her head, and her breastbone was cut open horizontally. So due to the injuries to her bones it is highly unlikely that she would have been moved after the attack.

 

[MsBetsy]

There were a couple of reports by people in the area that they had seen a blue car and someone subduing a child while driving. I don't think there is certainty of the accuracy of these statements, but there seems to have been more than one reported. One mentioned Ravenshoe Road.

Yes, a dark green or blue Buick. A husband and wife both stated they saw a man driving with a child in the front seat and it looked like he was pushing the child down. I wonder what kind of car Hoover drove back then.

I think there was another report of a dark car parked near the Jessup home around the time Christine disappeared.

 

[photographer4]

Yes, a dark green or blue Buick. A husband and wife both stated they saw a man driving with a child in the front seat and it looked like he was pushing the child down. I wonder what kind of car Hoover drove back then.

I think there was another report of a dark car parked near the Jessup home around the time Christine disappeared.

Now that you mention that, I do vaguely remember that! Ugh. Can't imagine how it might feel to know that you MAY have witnessed an abduction in process and had been unable to do anything, except perhaps notify police.

Someone else upthread mentioned as well that someone had heard screaming near where CJ was found. I do recall reading that, and reading about officers screaming to see if they could be heard from where the witness said they were when they heard it. I believe a few people heard it that night but none acted on it for some reason.

Canada: Kaufman Commission - Guy Paul Morin - Evidence of "screams"

 

[sibyl3]

Yes, that's what I was thinking. After reading the other thread, I discovered it was Fred Patterson's wife who said she heard screaming that night. Patterson was the neighbor who discovered the body when he was out walking the dog with his two daughters. The body was very well hidden in an isolated area.

The person who owned the trailer, the Cull's son, was the one who reported smelling a foul odor near the end of October. He was one of the first POI's questioned by police, according to K Jessup.

Another reason they believed she was attacked and killed in that location was because the second autopsy showed that her throat was so deeply cut it was partially severed from her head, and her breastbone was cut open horizontally. So due to the injuries to her bones it is highly unlikely that she would have been moved after the attack.

Oh! Heartbreaking. =( If I recall correctly I read similar comments made in Springwater (Old Second South Rd) just north of Barrie the day that Nicole Morin disappeared. They've searched the area up there and haven't found anything, but from what I read it was very disturbing to the woman who heard the screaming.

 

[photographer4]

Oh! Heartbreaking. =( If I recall correctly I read similar comments made in Springwater (Old Second South Rd) just north of Barrie the day that Nicole Morin disappeared. They've searched the area up there and haven't found anything, but from what I read it was very disturbing to the woman who heard the screaming.

I'd reallllly like to know where CH was the day Nicole Morrin vanished!!

 

[LylienTuc]

Yes, that's what I was thinking. After reading the other thread, I discovered it was Fred Patterson's wife who said she heard screaming that night. Patterson was the neighbor who discovered the body when he was out walking the dog with his two daughters. The body was very well hidden in an isolated area.

The person who owned the trailer, the Cull's son, was the one who reported smelling a foul odor near the end of October. He was one of the first POI's questioned by police, according to K Jessup.

Another reason they believed she was attacked and killed in that location was because the second autopsy showed that her throat was so deeply cut it was partially severed from her head, and her breastbone was cut open horizontally. So due to the injuries to her bones it is highly unlikely that she would have been moved after the attack.

Have you seen any specific points why she is assumed to be killed exactly on the same day right after abduction? I know you wrote that usually child murderers are done within few hours. I wish we had more details from his wife on what happened that day exactly and when he was home. Because if it as you say was all done in one day he must be home quite late.
If he was home on time then he must have left Christine somewhere otherwise no sense logistically.
We don't know if Hoover owned any other properties at that time. Maybe a chalet nearby ? or a storage 10 minutes way? who knows


the police didn't check

 

[Forest_Wood]

Does anybody know if the police will provide an update to a new investigation about CH and his movements that day? I mean, is there still going to be an active investigation again? It’s just so awful what was done to GPM while CH got away with abduction, rape and murder.

 

[LylienTuc]

Now that you mention that, I do vaguely remember that! Ugh. Can't imagine how it might feel to know that you MAY have witnessed an abduction in process and had been unable to do anything, except perhaps notify police.

Someone else upthread mentioned as well that someone had heard screaming near where CJ was found. I do recall reading that, and reading about officers screaming to see if they could be heard from where the witness said they were when they heard it. I believe a few people heard it that night but none acted on it for some reason.

Canada: Kaufman Commission - Guy Paul Morin - Evidence of "screams"

Thank you for that link. That solidifies my point.
According to the testimony of Alex Robertson the screaming in the woods occurred on October 4th. Which is a day after the abduction. unless he got the date wrong.
Again more reasons to believe that Christine was held captive away or with Hoover (still no details about his alibi on that day).

 

[LadyL]

A number of news websites quote Ken Jessop saying something that confuses me. For example on Oct. 16/20, CP24 reports:

“Ken Jessop said that before leaving the house his mother had called Hoover’s wife while Christine “was having a tantrum because she had wanted to go see her father” too.

He said that he suspects Hoover’s wife would have heard the commotion and maybe even mentioned it in passing to her husband.

“He saw his opportunity and his chance and he took it. There was nothing random about this,” he said. “I always said it was somebody that knew my father was in jail and used the pickup line of I will take you to see your father. I am sure he was at the house waiting when she (Christine) got back from the store.”

I don’t understand how Janet Jessop called Mrs. Hoover just before they left the house to go visit the jail, while Christine was throwing a temper tantrum in the background. Wasn’t she in school??? Isn’t that the official story, that she was in school, got a recorder, got on a school bus, and came home alone?? So how was she in the background throwing a temper tantrum while her mom made the call to Mrs. Hoover just before they left to go to the jail?

good question

 

[sibyl3]

Have the names of the boys involved in abusing Christine and Ken ever been stated anywhere? I assume because they were minors at the time that their names would not appear in court records or police records... but just wondering as they were friends of the family in Toronto.

 

[MistyWaters]

Reading about this case, a thought flashed through my mind. Had WS been around in the 80s-90s, I wonder how many of us would’ve been convinced Morin was guilty just because he was “weird” and charged, much like the jurors who initially convicted him. But no, he wasn’t guilty at all and now almost 40 years later all the apparently indisputable evidence about Hoover comes out, five years after his death. I admit I don’t quite get why that is. It leave me feeling sad and disappointed, rather than satisfaction this case has finally been solved. Especially because Marin is now truly exonerated. Am I missing something, what of this evidence against Hoover is “new”, that wasn’t known decades ago?

Acquittal and conviction in the murder of Christine Jessop: A look back at one of London, Ont.'s biggest trials
“....Durham Regional Police first became interested in Morin after Jessop’s mother labelled her next-door neighbour as a “weird-type guy.” In April 1985, acting largely on their assessment of Morin as being “weird,” he was arrested.....

.......Janet Jessop expressed relief.

“Finally, the guilty one has paid for Christine’s murder.”.....

......The trial for Morin’s appeal of his conviction was short, with the judge giving a directed verdict of acquittal on Jan. 23, 1995 in response to the DNA evidence that all parties agreed were accurate.

“I’m just in heaven. I’m happy. I’m free. That’s how I feel. Free,” an elated Morin told reporters on the day of his acquittal. “It totally exonerated me in both categories. Proving I - me, me here - did not do this crime.”

Morin’s father said, “I think there’s a lot of wrongs that have to be righted.”

Christine Jessop’s brother Ken, who was 14 at the time of his sister’s disappearance, broke down in court, and apologized outside of court for all that was said about Morin. “Every time you see the Crown or the police, they turn and tell you that this is the man…he’s going down this time.”

After 10 years of hearing that, Ken said he didn’t know what else to think. He felt “brainwashed.”

“Now I have to sit back and realize, and really let it sink in, that he’s (Morin) not the one who sexually assaulted her. That’s what this evidence proves. He’s now a free man. I hope he sues the a** off of them.”......”