Canada - Coronavirus COVID-19 #2

[otto]

Lots of anti-vaccers out in the wild west. Anti-mask, anti-everything and many people in Alberta think its a government conspiracy.

If they all book 10 appointments, it blocks those who want the vaccine but its not a good way to get them onside. IMO

There's always been a bit of a rivalry between Ontario and Alberta, moreso in recent years due to equalization payments and Ottawa's stance against natural resources. A small handful of people in each province, including Alberta, do not take the pandemic seriously. The majority of Canadians are doing their best to reduce the spread of the virus.

 

[otto]

"The most important takeaway from these early results is that people who receive a mixed vaccine schedule may need to plan more time off around their shot."

"Around 17 to 20 per cent experienced temporary symptoms severe enough to impact their daily life, with the side effect most often reported being fatigue."

I had fatigue as a side-effect after the first shot. Fatigue doesn't sound like anything to be concerned about, but it hit me hard the morning after the shot. I was asleep again at 11:30AM for a few hours and had no energy to do anything for a couple of days.

 

[dotr]

Ontario to go ahead with 2nd doses of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine - CityNews Toronto
May 21 2021 rbbm.
''Ontario is moving forward with administering second doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.

Dr. David Williams, the province’s chief medical officer, says during the week of May 24, individuals who received their first dose of the vaccine during the period of March 10 to March 19, 2021 may opt for an earlier dose interval after just 10 weeks.

Those individuals will be able to book an appointment beginning the week of May 24th in regions where the vaccine was launched at pharmacies.

Williams said the province will provide further information on how individuals who received their first dose of the shot after March 19 can book a second dose appointment in the “near future.”

 

[musicaljoke]

I too question the assumption that people are double-booking to prevent others from getting the vaccine. I think some people are double booking a week or two apart in case work, or something else, gets in the way and they have to cancel the first appointment. It sounds like some are forgetting to cancel one of the appointments.

Yes, this is much more likely than the other "reason" given for multiple bookings. Even so, very few doses are wasted. If someone misses an appointment then that spot gets filled before the clinic closes for the day. There are people at the clinics with the specific task of filling the no shows. Our Public Health district, which is huge, has wasted 180 doses since vaccinations began. This is not more than what one would expect from breakage and mechanical issues.

 

[LadyL]

Canada should ‘be prepared’ for COVID-19 case surge after long weekend, experts warn

 

[deugirtni]

I too question the assumption that people are double-booking to prevent others from getting the vaccine. I think some people are double booking a week or two apart in case work, or something else, gets in the way and they have to cancel the first appointment. It sounds like some are forgetting to cancel one of the appointments.

There must be a reason for them to believe this is happening to cause others to not get the vax. I can't see them coming to that conclusion just because some people, even many people, double booked? That seems kind of paranoid thinking on someone's part? I could see people double booking (kind of), because I believe the online registration thing has been a bit confusing for many, and yes, possibly people are not confident they will end up with a vax even if a slot is booked for them, and therefore they wanted to be sure. Or possibly people had booked both online and by telephone or something. I still can't see any of that as enough to come to the belief that people were doing this to prevent others from getting a vax. Too bad the news story didn't elaborate more on why people were saying such a thing. imo.

 

[otto]

There must be a reason for them to believe this is happening to cause others to not get the vax. I can't see them coming to that conclusion just because some people, even many people, double booked? That seems kind of paranoid thinking on someone's part? I could see people double booking (kind of), because I believe the online registration thing has been a bit confusing for many, and yes, possibly people are not confident they will end up with a vax even if a slot is booked for them, and therefore they wanted to be sure. Or possibly people had booked both online and by telephone or something. I still can't see any of that as enough to come to the belief that people were doing this to prevent others from getting a vax. Too bad the news story didn't elaborate more on why people were saying such a thing. imo.

The reason seems to be crazy paranoid nutbars on social media. If these types of bizarre remarks on social media are not addressed, they grow legs. It's nothing more than idiots, from an unknown place in the world, trying to create conflict.

"Alberta Health Services (AHS) said in a tweet Wednesday that it was monitoring vaccination no-shows following claims on social media that some people are booking several times to try to stop others from getting a shot.

The agency said it shared the information with police and is making sure participating pharmacies are aware of the claims.

"At this time, AHS is not seeing an increase in no-shows. On any given day, no-shows account for approximately one per cent of the total number booked for an immunization," it said in an emailed statement Thursday."
​

Hinshaw announces new COVID-19 quarantine rules for vaccinated Albertans - North Shore News

 

[otto]

Population of Canada: 38 million. Number of doses needed to fully vaccinate everyone, 76 million. I suppose options for 400 million have been purchased to safeguard in case a supplier is delayed.

"To vaccinate all Canadians, the government has signed contracts with seven different vaccine makers — six foreign, one domestic — with options to purchase more than 400 million doses."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-vaccine-deliveries-progress-report-1.6034624

 

[deugirtni]

The reason seems to be crazy paranoid nutbars on social media. If these types of bizarre remarks on social media are not addressed, they grow legs. It's nothing more than idiots, from an unknown place in the world, trying to create conflict.

"Alberta Health Services (AHS) said in a tweet Wednesday that it was monitoring vaccination no-shows following claims on social media that some people are booking several times to try to stop others from getting a shot.

The agency said it shared the information with police and is making sure participating pharmacies are aware of the claims.

"At this time, AHS is not seeing an increase in no-shows. On any given day, no-shows account for approximately one per cent of the total number booked for an immunization," it said in an emailed statement Thursday."
​

Hinshaw announces new COVID-19 quarantine rules for vaccinated Albertans - North Shore News

I am not certain how it has worked everywhere and through all online channels.. but in my own experience of having booked 3 vax appointments for assorted family members, I had to give the healthcard numbers, as well as in one case, I also had to give DOB (one qualified due to age eligibility, and two due to occupational eligibility). I am only assuming, but wouldn't there be some kind of a red flag within the online systems to flag right away if a health card number did not match the name used, and/or if a health card number had already received a vax? (That would only make sense??) So I'm not understanding how it would've even been possible for people to book multiple appointments for themselves to prevent others from receiving it. What a crazy story. I hope the reporter and/or Hinshaw does an update on that, rather than just leaving it up in the air like that. Since when do the provincial chief medical officers of health take so seriously the paranoid banter occurring on social media, enough to call police about it and make an announcement about it that hits the press? imo.

 

[JDG]

I am not certain how it has worked everywhere and through all online channels.. but in my own experience of having booked 3 vax appointments for assorted family members, I had to give the healthcard numbers, as well as in one case, I also had to give DOB (one qualified due to age eligibility, and two due to occupational eligibility). I am only assuming, but wouldn't there be some kind of a red flag within the online systems to flag right away if a health card number did not match the name used, and/or if a health card number had already received a vax? (That would only make sense??) So I'm not understanding how it would've even been possible for people to book multiple appointments for themselves to prevent others from receiving it. What a crazy story. I hope the reporter and/or Hinshaw does an update on that, rather than just leaving it up in the air like that. Since when do the provincial chief medical officers of health take so seriously the paranoid banter occurring on social media, enough to call police about it and make an announcement about it that hits the press? imo.

When I booked an appointment for a family member that is EXACTLY what happened.

A notification came up stating that if we proceeded, the original appointment would be automatically cancelled. It happened as the health card number was going in, IIRC.

The first booking involved a long lineup and the second one, that we did not continue with was much more organized with virtually no lineup.

Luckily, by the time the appointment came, the original place was much more organized. It had been a zoo in the first few weeks.

 

[deugirtni]

Ontario to go ahead with 2nd doses of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine - CityNews Toronto
May 21 2021 rbbm.
''Ontario is moving forward with administering second doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine.

Dr. David Williams, the province’s chief medical officer, says during the week of May 24, individuals who received their first dose of the vaccine during the period of March 10 to March 19, 2021 may opt for an earlier dose interval after just 10 weeks.

Those individuals will be able to book an appointment beginning the week of May 24th in regions where the vaccine was launched at pharmacies.

Williams said the province will provide further information on how individuals who received their first dose of the shot after March 19 can book a second dose appointment in the “near future.”

As MUCH as I loathe the thought of a whole pile of any brand of vax doses going to waste (apparently there are a pile of Astrazeneca doses set to expire on May 31st), I find it disturbing that those people who received first doses of the AZ vax, even though they have since been disallowed for first doses, are now total guinea pigs *again*, no matter which way they end up going afterwards. First they said well maybe it's ok to mix brands between first and second doses, although possibly it creates more side effects.. now they're saying nah, let's give them the same AZ vax but we'll give it two weeks ahead of the deemed optimal interval between doses? It has been stated that 12 weeks is the optimal time, even though anything after 4 weeks is acceptable, but the efficacy is lowered correspondingly by the interval between doses being less than the ideal timing of 12 weeks. Wow, that seems reassuring. imo.

 

[JDG]

If someone had Pfizer or Moderna, the optimal timing was 21-28 days and they're being MADE to wait 16 weeks!!!!!

These are political decisions, not scientific ones.

We, the general public, have NO idea of how these changes are going to affect us.

We, the general public, ARE all guinea pigs who are not following the producers vaccine regimes.

Nothing could possibly go wrong, eh??

OH CANADA!!

 

[otto]

I am not certain how it has worked everywhere and through all online channels.. but in my own experience of having booked 3 vax appointments for assorted family members, I had to give the healthcard numbers, as well as in one case, I also had to give DOB (one qualified due to age eligibility, and two due to occupational eligibility). I am only assuming, but wouldn't there be some kind of a red flag within the online systems to flag right away if a health card number did not match the name used, and/or if a health card number had already received a vax? (That would only make sense??) So I'm not understanding how it would've even been possible for people to book multiple appointments for themselves to prevent others from receiving it. What a crazy story. I hope the reporter and/or Hinshaw does an update on that, rather than just leaving it up in the air like that. Since when do the provincial chief medical officers of health take so seriously the paranoid banter occurring on social media, enough to call police about it and make an announcement about it that hits the press? imo.

I can confirm that the system is not that sophisticated. My son works on-call and was having difficulty scheduling the vaccine appointment. He asked me to assist, so I asked for his health care number and booked an appointment. He apparently mentioned his difficulties scheduling an appointment with his girlfriend as well. On the same day, she scheduled an appointment for him, although without his health care number, and perhaps not using his permanent address. He ended up with an appointment on May 22 and on June 3 at two different vaccine locations. I asked him to cancel the June 3 appointment, but he said he would hold onto it until May 22 in case he was unexpectedly required at work and had to delay until June 3. It wasn't an intentional double book, but after the mistake was made he has delayed in cancelling the second appointment.

The problem can be accidental, with good intentions, and cancelling can be to accommodate on-call schedules.

 

[LadyL]

CDC study finds about 78% of people hospitalized for Covid were overweight or obese

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/cov...bNeo3_Zc3bv9i4tRb7afVyR-W-f3D46fohLMbrelu55Hs

 

[otto]

CDC study finds about 78% of people hospitalized for Covid were overweight or obese

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/08/cov...bNeo3_Zc3bv9i4tRb7afVyR-W-f3D46fohLMbrelu55Hs

Obesity is a health condition that was accepted for early vaccination in some, perhaps all, Canada provinces.

 

[musicaljoke]

If someone had Pfizer or Moderna, the optimal timing was 21-28 days and they're being MADE to wait 16 weeks!!!!!

These are political decisions, not scientific ones.

We, the general public, have NO idea of how these changes are going to affect us.

We, the general public, ARE all guinea pigs who are not following the producers vaccine regimes.

Nothing could possibly go wrong, eh??

OH CANADA!!

This might make you a bit happier about the decision...

Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine generates antibody responses three-and-a-half times larger in older people when a second dose is delayed to 12 weeks after the first, a British study said.

The study released on Friday is the first to directly compare immune responses of the Pfizer shot from the three-week dosing interval tested in clinical trials, and the extended 12-week interval that British officials recommend in order to give more vulnerable people at least some protection quickly.
...
However, taken with data showing good protection against hospitalization and death from just one shot of Pfizer vaccine, Public Health England said the study was further supportive evidence in favor of Britain’s approach.

“The approach taken in the UK for delaying that second dose has really paid off,” Gayatri Amirthalingam, Consultant Epidemiologist at Public Health England, told reporters.

Delaying 2nd Pfizer vaccine dose may protect better against COVID-19: study

Delaying 2nd COVID-19 vaccine dose can help reduce deaths: study

 

[musicaljoke]

I can confirm that the system is not that sophisticated. My son works on-call and was having difficulty scheduling the vaccine appointment. He asked me to assist, so I asked for his health care number and booked an appointment. He apparently mentioned his difficulties scheduling an appointment with his girlfriend as well. On the same day, she scheduled an appointment for him, although without his health care number, and perhaps not using his permanent address. He ended up with an appointment on May 22 and on June 3 at two different vaccine locations. I asked him to cancel the June 3 appointment, but he said he would hold onto it until May 22 in case he was unexpectedly required at work and had to delay until June 3. It wasn't an intentional double book, but after the mistake was made he has delayed in cancelling the second appointment.

The problem can be accidental, with good intentions, and cancelling can be to accommodate on-call schedules.

Yes, I believe that if you call in w/o a health card number or identification, you can still get a vaccination appointment. This is so that no one is denied a vaccine. If she had called with the health card number, the original appointment would have shown up.

I'm not sure of the drill if someone w/o a health card made repeated appointments. But, I can find out. No, I won't be trying to make appointments, I'll just ask our local coordinator.

 

[deugirtni]

I can confirm that the system is not that sophisticated. My son works on-call and was having difficulty scheduling the vaccine appointment. He asked me to assist, so I asked for his health care number and booked an appointment. He apparently mentioned his difficulties scheduling an appointment with his girlfriend as well. On the same day, she scheduled an appointment for him, although without his health care number, and perhaps not using his permanent address. He ended up with an appointment on May 22 and on June 3 at two different vaccine locations. I asked him to cancel the June 3 appointment, but he said he would hold onto it until May 22 in case he was unexpectedly required at work and had to delay until June 3. It wasn't an intentional double book, but after the mistake was made he has delayed in cancelling the second appointment.

The problem can be accidental, with good intentions, and cancelling can be to accommodate on-call schedules.

I can understand the system not being sophisticated enough to flag if two vax 'appointments' are made, that makes sense. I was more thinking about these so-far imaginary people who are booking lots of appointments to prevent others from receiving the vaccinations.. although I guess I was presuming those people would have already been vaccinated themselves, and that the online registry would have flagged it if someone had already received their vax under that same healthcard number.

I don't blame your son at all for keeping the two appointments until he was sure he was able to actually receive the first scheduled one, as there have been reports of people's appointments being suddenly cancelled without a new replacement appointment being issued (seems every time the govt changes its mind about who should get one first, they nab the doses and send them to where they deem they're more needed!). I don't see that type of thing as causing the problems Alberta's top public health doc was warning about.

If like JDG proposed, it is anti-vaxers who are booking all these bogus vax appointments, I guess it is possible they could be doing it using their own healthcard number, but never being flagged in the system since their healthcard number has not yet received an actual vax... but if that is what was happening, you'd think it would be simple for an insider to have a look in the database to see the number of appointments scheduled by duplicate healthcard numbers? Whole thing, once again, does NOT make sense.

I'm wondering too, if the whole thing got started after a misunderstanding in comprehension by one louder-mouthed person active on social media, who possibly misunderstood that people had entered themselves on numerous 'wait lists', as opposed to 'actual appointments'?? That is sure a possibility, with the mass confusion we have seen.. at least here in ON, the province would be saying 'anyone 40 and over are now eligible to book a vax appt starting on Monday', but meanwhile, when the people went to the site to register for an appointment, the local health department's rules would read that 'they are now accepting anyone over 70',... stuff like that was happening, and it seemed that each municipality had their own 'rules'. And of course, there WERE no actual appointments to register for, only 'wait lists' and apparently each vaccination site had its own waiting list.. so if people did qualify as per the local health department's rules, people were registering on MANY waiting lists... which could perhaps lead some lower-functioning person to assume that by doing so, other people were prevented from also 'registering'?? imo. Once again, hope they elaborate what that was all about.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, I believe that if you call in w/o a health card number or identification, you can still get a vaccination appointment. This is so that no one is denied a vaccine. If she had called with the health card number, the original appointment would have shown up.

I'm not sure of the drill if someone w/o a health card made repeated appointments. But, I can find out. No, I won't be trying to make appointments, I'll just ask our local coordinator.

I was a bit horrified when my younger adult son was preparing to head out the door to receive his first vax.. I asked to see his healthcard because he told me it had expired and he was concerned it wouldn't be accepted. I knew Ontario was postponing healthcard renewals since Covid started over a year ago.. I just wasn't expecting the expiry to be SO long ago. It expired in 2018!! But they accepted him without question. Also, he had qualified because he is in an eligible occupation.. and the eligibility had opened up to include anyone over 18 in certain occupations.. online there was nothing to fill in to say which company he worked for, nor what he did for a living. When he arrived for his vax, the nurse issuing the vax merely asked him 'what made him qualify for getting the vax that day', and so he said, 'I'm in manufacturing and I work at x-company'.. and that was it.. no proof required. Meanwhile, we had printed off one of his recent paystubs to prove it, etc., to be prepared just in case. It seems like this scheduling thing has been somewhat of a show all around. imo.

 

[otto]

I can understand the system not being sophisticated enough to flag if two vax 'appointments' are made, that makes sense. I was more thinking about these so-far imaginary people who are booking lots of appointments to prevent others from receiving the vaccinations.. although I guess I was presuming those people would have already been vaccinated themselves, and that the online registry would have flagged it if someone had already received their vax under that same healthcard number.

I don't blame your son at all for keeping the two appointments until he was sure he was able to actually receive the first scheduled one, as there have been reports of people's appointments being suddenly cancelled without a new replacement appointment being issued (seems every time the govt changes its mind about who should get one first, they nab the doses and send them to where they deem they're more needed!). I don't see that type of thing as causing the problems Alberta's top public health doc was warning about.

If like JDG proposed, it is anti-vaxers who are booking all these bogus vax appointments, I guess it is possible they could be doing it using their own healthcard number, but never being flagged in the system since their healthcard number has not yet received an actual vax... but if that is what was happening, you'd think it would be simple for an insider to have a look in the database to see the number of appointments scheduled by duplicate healthcard numbers? Whole thing, once again, does NOT make sense.

I'm wondering too, if the whole thing got started after a misunderstanding in comprehension by one louder-mouthed person active on social media, who possibly misunderstood that people had entered themselves on numerous 'wait lists', as opposed to 'actual appointments'?? That is sure a possibility, with the mass confusion we have seen.. at least here in ON, the province would be saying 'anyone 40 and over are now eligible to book a vax appt starting on Monday', but meanwhile, when the people went to the site to register for an appointment, the local health department's rules would read that 'they are now accepting anyone over 70',... stuff like that was happening, and it seemed that each municipality had their own 'rules'. And of course, there WERE no actual appointments to register for, only 'wait lists' and apparently each vaccination site had its own waiting list.. so if people did qualify as per the local health department's rules, people were registering on MANY waiting lists... which could perhaps lead some lower-functioning person to assume that by doing so, other people were prevented from also 'registering'?? imo. Once again, hope they elaborate what that was all about.

I was on waitlists with three different pharmacies for at least a month, and still have not heard from any of them. In the meantime, I was vaccinated through Health Services.

I think the reason that we were able to accidentally schedule two appointments for my son is that different addresses were used (permanent address, rental address), and one of the appointments did not include his health care number. Anyone who is booking multiple appointments would probably be using numerous fake names and fake addresses, always omitting health care number.