GUILTY Canada - Diane Werendowicz, 23, raped & murdered, Hamilton, Ont, June 1981

[Claroon]

And yes, whether it was her choice or not, to break up with CV, and whether the reason was him screwing around or not, she still could have felt the need to not drown her sorrows, but pick herself up, by engaging in a one-night-stand with someone. RB seemed to have no difficulties in getting women, so perhaps he was actually likeable or something?

Call me a prude but I think hooking up with a drunk woman (while it happens frequently) is more like taking advantage of a drunk woman. So I'm saying I don't think a lot of "processing" or "thinking" was going on on her part.

 

[Claroon]

So Twitter id down today due to a hack, but I'm pretty sure the jury has the day off as the judge had said they'd be off the next few Fridays.

 

[deugirtni]

Good points. Yes if he was younger she wouldn't have crossed paths at high school. From my notes (don't ask me where I found it, please, lol) I have:

lived in the same building at Diane #Werendowicz, graduated from Saltfleet 1980,

as for your other question, I have to retrace that.

So if L was born Apr 1959 (I think that's what I read), she would have (likely, unless she skipped a grade or failed a grade) gone into grade 12 in 1976, and graduated grade 12 in 1977 (You didn't need to go to grade 13 at the time, to be an RNA/RPN - in fact I'm not sure if even grade 12 was required at the time?). If BM 'graduated' in 1980 (did he actually graduate, or is that the year when he left school?), that would have put them 3 years apart. I'm not sure how many grade 12s would notice the kids in grade 9, although Lori seemed to know him from outside of school. She said they knew each other from the area, so it would make sense if both went to same highschool.. however, it's also possible that BM went to, say, a Catholic high school for grade 9, and then at some later point, changed to Saltfleet, after L had already graduated.

 

[dotr]

Random thoughts, speculation, imo.

If ex boyfriend's dna was found on DW's underwear, is it not possible that as a very busy young woman working 3, 12 hour shifts in a row, that she grabbed a pair that she thought was clean, but was not freshly laundered?
DW perhaps menstruating at the time purposely wore soiled underwear, or, the underwear was clean and the rape, or whatever, caused old fluid if you will, to descend into the underwear?

Imo, sometimes people partying assume that everyone is drinking the same amount that they are drinking, the person who may not feel like drinking- may pretend they are drinking more than they actually are consuming. ( Stay sober while everyone else is drunk, you might be surprised and what you see and learn)
Maybe DW did not like the scene, was tired and simply up and quietly left by herself, a lone gazelle to the watchful eyes of a predator.

Maybe DW was left in that ravine because it was a comfortable, familiar place for the perp, and because it was littered with bottles and butts he thought would be a distraction to LE.

 

[deugirtni]

I found the article arguing which door she would exit:



http://www.therecord.com/news-story...sex-in-the-car-scenario-called-pure-fiction-/

The door thing seems like a moot point to me, because, which side was 'the rear', and which side was 'the front', etc.. and did everyone call them the same things? And it would only make sense, imho, that if DW had come to the bar with L, and then she didn't see L for the last hour that DW was there before she decided to leave, she may go to 'the rear', out that door that they came in, to see if she could find L.. if to say goodnight, if nothing else.. to see if she was already gone.. to see if she was smoking outside, etc.

 

[deugirtni]

I am wondering if I made that assumption that may not be the case.

i don't recall ever reading/hearing that they knew one another.

 

[Claroon]

Maybe Typhoo can clarify. When I zoom in on this Google area, I see the "crick in the area I highlighted in red. This is more behind 50 Jerome. I'm thinking maybe this is why EK made RB aggitated, because though his address may have been banned, EK pretty much told the jury where RB lived at the time.

I wish the crown would describe the location more like say behind 50 Jerome or the group of apartments. (maybe they have but we haven't seen it reported) Seems to me the creek starts by coming under Lake (I think Typhoo described this) and if that's where it starts, it had to be closer to 50 than 70.

IMO

photo credit

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/50...0bcb0b31001783!8m2!3d43.2297008!4d-79.7570662

 

[deugirtni]

Call me a prude but I think hooking up with a drunk woman (while it happens frequently) is more like taking advantage of a drunk woman. So I'm saying I don't think a lot of "processing" or "thinking" was going on on her part.

Maybe. She had had somewhere between 6 and 12 beers in a relatively short time. Some people tend to become 'down' when they drink.

 

[Claroon]

So I'm trying to piece together RB's residence and marital status at the time June 19/20, 1981. This article points out fiance with parents and doesn't say "at her parents home" but "home with her parents." Wedding was April 1982.

His former wife has testified she was watching television at her parents' Hamilton home with Robert Badgerow the night he allegedly attacked a Stoney Creek woman with a screwdriver 26 years ago.

Tammy Sormaz, 48, who was engaged to Badgerow at the time, told a Superior Court jury in Kitchener yesterday she recalled being in the recreation room with Badgerow on Aug. 9, 1981, when the CHCH late evening news came on...She said she was home with her parents at the time and cooking a meal for her mother's birthday when they appeared at her door....The makeover was part of the preparation for their wedding in April 1982.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2123669-former-wife-says-accused-was-watching-tv/

 

[Claroon]

RB is innocent until proven guilty. To prove him guilty needs enough corroborating evidence. (adapted fromWiki) Circumstantial evidence relies on an inference to connect it. Circumstantial evidence allows for more than one explanation. Different pieces of circumstantial evidence corroborate with each other. Together, they more strongly support one particular inference over another. An explanation involving circumstantial evidence becomes more likely once alternative explanations have been ruled out.

Us sleuthers have been focusing on alternative explanations.If we look at the crown's assertions or inference, is there enough corroboration?

I want to look at corroberating evidence.

There's no doubt DW was murdered and plenty of evidence to that effect. With a purse around her neck, she didn't slip and fall in a drunken stooper.

Is there likelihood that RB could cross paths with DW either that night or previous nights - yes, both frequented the same bar and had at least one mutual friend DS
yes, both apparently lived on the same street.

any corroborating evidence he could be in that area - yes
any evidence he could be there at that time with no other alibi - yes

DNA - yes
history of staking out women - yes by his own admission

 

[Claroon]

RB's scenario with cartoons. "said he believed he met the 23-year-old Werendowicz in the bar’s back parking lot: :coffeeup:“Hey, how are you doing? Do you smoke? :winkaway: Do you want to smoke a joint in my car?” Badgerow said of his conversation with the McMaster nursing assistant, who up to that point had been a complete stranger.


Bytensky wanted Badgerow to explain how the marijuana-smoking progressed to sexual intercourse in the back seat of his Pontiac Beaumont.


“I had the stereo on.:happydance: I engaged her in conversation....blah blah blah You know the seedy story.

SPECULATION ALERT

My version

"Hey don't I know you? Do you live on Jerome? Need a ride?"

"Sure"

Driving, slides hand over to her lap. Makes RB-style conversation "Hey sexy." She slaps his hand, He grabs it. He pulls car off road at ravine area, she fights back, he isn't taking no this time. Pulls her clothes off, rapes her.

"You Perverted Pig," she screams. While he's putting his pants on, she grabs her stuff, puts her pants on fast and runs with shoes and purse in hand.

He get his pants on, decides, she's not getting away with calling me a pig. Goes after her deeper into the woods closer to the apartments.

The kid that went to bed at 11:30 now hears screaming as he grabs her by her pigtails and throws her down into a wrestling hold, trying to strangle her grabs her purse and finishes her off, drags her to the creek and submerges her head. Now with full rage sees an old tire nearby. He wants her to sink so throws it over her, but she doesn't sink but she's too far in for him to do anything else so he flees the scene, wet, dirty, sweaty, and high from the thrill.

He has no one waiting at home to be accountable to and neither does she. No security cams. No witnesses.

Two days later he has a need for people to know. He needs to see it in print to relive it. So goes and makes a 911 call. hone: :copcar:

 

[Claroon]

Just wanted to add, would be helpful if prosecution had an expert to demonstrate how someone could strangle someone with such small purse straps.

 

[dotr]

Just wanted to add, would be helpful if prosecution had an expert to demonstrate how someone could strangle someone with such small purse straps.

Guessing DW was lying down face up, purse on chest, one or both handles held down on each side of the neck, pressure applied across front of neck?
speculation, imo.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Maybe Typhoo can clarify. When I zoom in on this Google area, I see the "crick in the area I highlighted in red. This is more behind 50 Jerome. I'm thinking maybe this is why EK made RB aggitated, because though his address may have been banned, EK pretty much told the jury where RB lived at the time.

I wish the crown would describe the location more like say behind 50 Jerome or the group of apartments. (maybe they have but we haven't seen it reported) Seems to me the creek starts by coming under Lake (I think Typhoo described this) and if that's where it starts, it had to be closer to 50 than 70.

The location of the creek is closer to 50 Jerome.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I'm not sure if back in that day, bartenders would refuse to sell alcohol to young women in the bar.. and even if so, it would have been easy for her to get someone else to order it on her behalf, if she'd wanted to.

I was 20 in 1981 and I bought drinks in bars many times when my friends and I went out on weekends.

OT: Just out of curiosity what year were you born?

 

[Typhoo1961]

Just wanted to add, would be helpful if prosecution had an expert to demonstrate how someone could strangle someone with such small purse straps.

Twist the purse. The purse is made out of nylon (popular back then) and would twist easily and tighten up on her neck.

 

[Claroon]

Twist the purse. The purse is made out of nylon (popular back then) and would twist easily and tighten up on her neck.

So the handle wouldn't be over her head? If it was just twisted would it stay on afloat in the water?

 

[Typhoo1961]

So the handle wouldn't be over her head? If it was just twisted would it stay on afloat in the water?

The handle would be around her neck and if the purse was under her chin you could twist the purse and the handles would tighten around her neck.
The more you twist the tighter it becomes.

 

[Claroon]

Here is a video the jury saw last week http://www.chch.com/badgerow-trial-october-20th/

 

[deugirtni]

Here is a video the jury saw last week http://www.chch.com/badgerow-trial-october-20th/

Whoa... did you hear what it said further on in that recording////????

from LH:

"Bradshaw's former roommate, Brian Miller, was convicted of a series of sexual assaults in the 1980s and he lived in the same building as Diane Werendowicz in 1981. The ravine where she was killed is directly behind the building. Robert Badgerow lived in the neighbouring building."

ETA: I guess it *could* be construed that he 'lived' there at some point in time... however it comes across that in 1981, at the time of the murder, RB lived in the neighbouring building.