GUILTY Canada - Diane Werendowicz, 23, raped & murdered, Hamilton, Ont, June 1981

[Claroon]

The park is listed as 55 which would be one number up from 53 on the odd side. This is from a website http://ourhamilton.com/recreation/parks/parks3.html

Henry and Beatrice Warden Park
55 Lake Avenue North by Queenston Road. --View Park--
The park is located in a small valley with a creek running through one side. It has a number of mature trees, as well as a creative play structure, swings, multi-purpose court and pathways.

I think that witness who lived there may very well been the last to see DW alive. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

just a personal observation of mine over the years. i don't mean to be sexist, or down on men. perhaps others may notice the exact same thing about certain women. I can only speak from what I have noticed about 'men'. i have found that men who have something about them which seems to inherently attract females, seem to have difficulty in remaining faithful, fending off those who make it obvious that they are attracted to them, so to speak. sometimes it seems like it isn't just a blatant disrespect for their partners that they can't keep it zipped up, but their egos just can't seem to resist basking in the attention somehow. i think it seems to be the same way with 'movie stars', and those in power, or with substantial wealth, to whom women kind of tend to throw themselves at, for whatever reason. In real life, when someone is just an ordinary guy, not wealthy, not famous, but just seems to have that special thing about him which seems to attract a lot of women, .. same thing. Ego and other things seem to get in the way and the resulting infidelity(ies) might make these types of guys a lot of things, but doesn't make them rapists or murderers. i'm wondering if RB was so 'afflicted'.

 

[deugirtni]

The park is listed as 55 which would be one number up from 53 on the odd side. This is from a website http://ourhamilton.com/recreation/parks/parks3.html

I think that witness who lived there may very well been the last to see DW alive. IMO

i was looking to see if i could find out what happened to that address... and came across this, which kind of shows how common it is/was to use the term 'crick' for creek for Stoney Creek people.

[h=4]Stoney Creek Neighbourhood[/h] Stoney Creek (locally known as 'Tony Creek' or 'the Crick') is a Neighbourhood that is part of the town formally known as Stoney Creek. Fiesta Mall as well as Cardinal Newman Catholic Secondary School are here.

http://drmansbridge.com/about-dentist-hamilton.html

 

[Claroon]

i was looking to see if i could find out what happened to that address... and came across this, which kind of shows how common it is/was to use the term 'crick' for creek for Stoney Creek people.

http://drmansbridge.com/about-dentist-hamilton.html

Wow, that's hilarious. (the dentist did it! ha ha) Good find.

 

[Typhoo1961]

Here is a googlemap showing from 53 Lake N to 70 Jerome.. would take 7 minutes by taking the long way around, but would be shorter if went through the ravine? Seems like it could be plausible that this woman may have witnessed something important. She estimated the time to be around 1:30am, which could also make sense if DW had left Malarkey's around midnight, had sex and smoked up with RB, then started on her journey home.. CV could have found her when she exited RB's vehicle, if he showed up there after work and found she wasn't home?

My guess is she went up the foot path that is on Lake Avenue and just to the right of the ravine. It leads up a bit of a hill and brings you right between the 2 buildings on Jerome Street when you reach the top of the hill. You can see the footpath on Google Street View. No need to go all the way around when there is a short cut.

 

[Typhoo1961]

The park is listed as 55 which would be one number up from 53 on the odd side. This is from a website http://ourhamilton.com/recreation/parks/parks3.html

I think that witness who lived there may very well been the last to see DW alive. IMO

I don't think that park and playground was there in 1981. The playground equipment is too modern and the park was likely just an empty field.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I don't know if it is just *my* computer, but I can't open your attachments.

I cannot open them either.

 

[dotr]

In somewhat related news, just started thread. Wondering about other sex assaults this alleged perp may be responsible for ?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?320746-Hamilton-man-charged-in-sex-assaults-dating-back-nearly-30-years&p=12912571#post12912571
[h=2]Hamilton man charged in sex assaults dating back nearly 30 years[/h]

 

[Claroon]

I don't think that park and playground was there in 1981. The playground equipment is too modern and the park was likely just an empty field.

That's what I was saying that I think 53 & 55 homes were torn down and park put there, you can kind of see where driveways might have been. IMO

 

[Claroon]

I cannot open them either.

Just snipped Jpegs off google maps

 

[deugirtni]

Wow, that's hilarious. (the dentist did it! ha ha) Good find.

it was just meant to show that it was in fact very common for people to refer to 'creek' as crick, when speaking about 'stoney creek', whether a certain section, the/an actual 'creek', or the entire town (at the time). i didn't live there, but in hamilton, and heard it often from others. So imo, I feel it is irrelevant that the 911 caller referred to it that way, since whether RB also referred to it that way or not, even if he did, so did lots of other people. it's not like it is a unique slang term coined by RB.

 

[Claroon]

it was just meant to show that it was in fact very common for people to refer to 'creek' as crick, when speaking about 'stoney creek', whether a certain section, the/an actual 'creek', or the entire town (at the time). i didn't live there, but in hamilton, and heard it often from others. So imo, I feel it is irrelevant that the 911 caller referred to it that way, since whether RB also referred to it that way or not, even if he did, so did lots of other people. it's not like it is a unique slang term coined by RB.

Yes, I know, I was just joking. I agree with you.

Did you compare the videos? The first sentence of "a guy really knows who his friends are." kind of sounded like the 911 because of the upward inflection.

I noticed in the 911 call the phrase and uh was more like aaand uh where the wedding his and uh was more like and uhhh.

I can see why some witnesses would be confused and sounds diff through a phone line too.

The way the guy in the 911 rolls the words "orange top over top of the white top" and that he said "where'n" and "Bart'n and Lake" sort of sounds like a Maritimer or just Stoney Creek slang?

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, I know, I was just joking. I agree with you.

Did you compare the videos? The first sentence of "a guy really knows who his friends are." kind of sounded like the 911 because of the upward inflection.

I noticed in the 911 call the phrase and uh was more like aaand uh where the wedding his and uh was more like and uhhh.

I can see why some witnesses would be confused and sounds diff through a phone line too.

The way the guy in the 911 rolls the words "orange top over top of the white top" and that he said "where'n" and "Bart'n and Lake" sort of sounds like a Maritimer or just Stoney Creek slang?

I was going more by the sound as opposed to the particular word pronunciations. i'll listen again. As for the 'Bart'n'.. the other way of saying it would be 'bar tun'... but that is like people saying.. 'butt'n' or 'butt un'.. how many people say 'butt un'? The reason I think of this is that i happened upon someone saying 'button' today, like 'butt un'.. like.. 'martin', by saying 'mart'n', or 'mar tin'.. the 'where'n' (if you're referring to 'wearing') is different.. it's more like .. slang.. or just bad English. I didn't notice to that extent, but just the sound, and i felt like it didn't sound like same person. i felt the caller spoke very quickly, whereas RB doesn't seem to speak quickly, it to me, it just sounded like a different voice. Going to listen again.

 

[deugirtni]

I just can't comprehend that there is no technology available today that can point out the similarities between the 2 recordings, plus the later recording of RB after one of his trials, to see the percentage likelihood that they are same voice. And if there is such technology, why is it not being used? just want to point out, although i'm sure it's obvious, the person speaking at around 1:20 on the wedding video is not RB when he says, 'and uhh'. That is the best man. Once again, just like 'crick', i think an awful lot of people say, 'and uhh' when they speak. Do you feel the 2 voice sounds are the same?

 

[Typhoo1961]

it was just meant to show that it was in fact very common for people to refer to 'creek' as crick, when speaking about 'stoney creek', whether a certain section, the/an actual 'creek', or the entire town (at the time). i didn't live there, but in hamilton, and heard it often from others. So imo, I feel it is irrelevant that the 911 caller referred to it that way, since whether RB also referred to it that way or not, even if he did, so did lots of other people. it's not like it is a unique slang term coined by RB.

I asked my good friend who was born in Stoney Creek in the 50s (and lived here in Stoney Creek all his life until recently when he moved to central Hamilton) about how SC was pronounced by him and the locals and he said it was always referred to as Stoney Creek and not Stoney Crick. I guess it depends on who you talked to or the time that happened in ...maybe it was unique to the late 70s/ early 80s. I've been living here in Stoney Creek for the last 5 and a half years and never heard it referred by anyone as 'Crick' once.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I just can't comprehend that there is no technology available today that can point out the similarities between the 2 recordings, plus the later recording of RB after one of his trials, to see the percentage likelihood that they are same voice. And if there is such technology, why is it not being used? just want to point out, although i'm sure it's obvious, the person speaking at around 1:20 on the wedding video is not RB when he says, 'and uhh'. That is the best man. Once again, just like 'crick', i think an awful lot of people say, 'and uhh' when they speak. Do you feel the 2 voice sounds are the same?

There actually is that type of technology available. I saw a documentary some time ago and the FBI has it.

 

[dotr]

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/a...cience-communications/fsc/april2003/lacey.htm

 

[Claroon]

I just can't comprehend that there is no technology available today that can point out the similarities between the 2 recordings, plus the later recording of RB after one of his trials, to see the percentage likelihood that they are same voice. And if there is such technology, why is it not being used? just want to point out, although i'm sure it's obvious, the person speaking at around 1:20 on the wedding video is not RB when he says, 'and uhh'. That is the best man. Once again, just like 'crick', i think an awful lot of people say, 'and uhh' when they speak. Do you feel the 2 voice sounds are the same?

I think that guy you're referring to is the master of ceremonies. He seems older. The "and uh" I referred to is around the 0:15 mark. Yes lots say and uh I was just trying to differential the way it was said, but maybe we all say it different at different times.

 

[Claroon]

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/a...cience-communications/fsc/april2003/lacey.htm

FBI=American so what Canadian division would be looking at this? RCMP? Hamilton Police? Subcontract?

Here is RCMP

Forensic Science Page. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fsis-ssji/index-eng.htm

Trace Evidence http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/fsis-ssji/trace-te-at-eng.htm

A quick look in the subcategories I don't see voice technology testing.

 

[Claroon]

Still trying to make sense of the motive of the phone caller. Like did he think he needed to tell police because he thought they didn't know? Any other theories? Maybe a low IQ? A narcissist killer? To frame a Dofasco worker? To get a load off his chest?