CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[eyesonly]

Thanks eyesonly - there was a transaction from her account at 3:45 pm and assumed to be her. Definitely a shame there is no, or thought to be no video - could be why not a big deal was made of it. Nothing to be done by LE one way or the other.

The story here in previous posts is, EB went home after making that transaction - but according to the Star, her mom ended up testifying EB left home at 3:00 pm never to return.

You are assuming the article is factually correct and if it is as per her testimony, then it wouldn't have been very difficult to talk or confuse mrs Bain into putting her time back an hour if it was going to help LE in their quest for a conviction.
I mean who is ever going to question the mother of a missing and presumed murdered daughter. That would be suicide to the defences' case.

 

[Woodland]

From the TS archives 30 June 1990, page A13.

Bain said he hopes an unidentified woman who was seen travelling with his daughter in her car about 3.30 p.m. the day she disappeared will come forward and talk to police. They were spotted near Lawrence Ave. and Morningside Ave. The woman is described as in her 50s with graying, black hair.


Was it ever revealed who claimed to have seen EB in her car with a woman in her 50's with graying, black hair, near Lawrence Ave & Morningside Ave? It had to be someone who knew EB.

 

[Woodland]

From the TS archives 18 July 1990, page A6 -

Metro police hunting for missing university student Elizabeth Bain are urging the public to keep calling with information. "Don't stop calling, we are not going to stop investigating," said Detective Sergeant Steve Reesor, asking anyone with leads to call 324-0854. Today will be the 30th day since Bain, 22, was last seen.

Interesting that a 'don't stop calling' plea was put out by LE - wonder if that meant people were not calling?

 

[eyesonly]

From the TS archives 30 June 1990, page A13.

Bain said he hopes an unidentified woman who was seen travelling with his daughter in her car about 3.30 p.m. the day she disappeared will come forward and talk to police. They were spotted near Lawrence Ave. and Morningside Ave. The woman is described as in her 50s with graying, black hair.


Was it ever revealed who claimed to have seen EB in her car with a woman in her 50's with graying, black hair, near Lawrence Ave & Morningside Ave? It had to be someone who knew EB.

yes, the person knew who liz was. however, the rest of the sighting is that the lady was wearing a yellow raincoat which made sense to him because it had rained that day.
i don't believed it had rained on the 19th, i looked up the weather reports and if memory serves me correctly it had rained the week before on tues the 12th.
and there is no public information that the lady ever came forward.
maybe she did to LE and they never released the information to anyone for a certain purpose, or because they realized it had to be the week before therefore it was a non-issue.

but this sighting has never been discounted in the public view and is generally used as part of the timeline for liz's whereabouts that day.
maybe it wasn't really a raincoat the lady was wearing, and maybe she did come forward and LE has a report but it's a non-issue, not sure if we will
ever know.

i will double check on the info about this sighting to make sure i am accurate with my memory.

 

[Woodland]

If the sighting was never verified, and could have been up to a week prior, how can it be used as part of the timeline for EB on 19 June 1990?

 

[Woodland]

LE put out a call through the media for the graying, black-haired woman to come forward a few times from early July through September 1990. The time varied between 2:30 and 3:30 pm.

Equally perplexing is the call for another female to come forward in September 1990 - a tipster who gave a false name and address, but 'claimed' to see EB on campus that evening with a man.

From the TS archives, 26 Sept 1990, page A6.

Detectives also want to talk to:

* A woman in her 50s with graying hair who was seen with Bain in her car June 19 around 2.30 p.m. near Lawrence Ave. E. and Morningside Ave. Police believe the woman may have known Bain's plans for that day, which could have included a meeting with the person who killed her.

* A woman who gave the name of Julie Smith to police. When police went to Bowmanville to look for the woman, they found no such person existed. Detectives said she called police to say she saw Bain with a man on the campus the night she disappeared. Detectives would like to talk to the woman again.

 

[eyesonly]

If the sighting was never verified, and could have been up to a week prior, how can it be used as part of the timeline for EB on 19 June 1990?

Sorry wasn't too clear with my previous post. LE did interview the guy who had the sighting and as you've read in the papers they say it was on the 19th,
It is my deduction from a comment in the book regarding the raincoat and it had rained that day that leads me to believe it was not the 19th and possibly a week early on a Tuesday.

I will quote from the book later on tonight about this particular sighting.

As for verification, we have no knowledge they found the lady so all they have is the person who had the sighting. Maybe they needed the lady so they could verify the actual date of the sighting. Idk. jmo

 

[Woodland]

OK - a bank transaction at 3:45 pm where no one actually saw her, and a sighting between 2:30 pm and 3:30 pm by someone that could be mistaken about the date, as the graying, 50ish woman that was supposedly in EB's car never came forward, even though she seemed to know EB well enough that she was in EB's car. She never saw EB again, never heard she was missing, never heard about the murder charge and subsequent trial and/or did not concern herself with the matter.

I looked up historical weather on Environment Canada yesterday - there is a monitoring station at Toronto Zoo that reads no rain on 19 June 1990 but rain for 12 June 1990. There is a Toronto station called Ellesmere (don't know exactly where) that reads a trace of rain - too little to register.

Any idea what EB was suppose to be doing prior to 2:30 pm or 3:00 pm?

 

[eyesonly]

OK - a bank transaction at 3:45 pm where no one actually saw her, and a sighting between 2:30 pm and 3:30 pm by someone that could be mistaken about the date, as the graying, 50ish woman that was supposedly in EB's car never came forward, even though she seemed to know EB well enough that she was in EB's car. She never saw EB again, never heard she was missing, never heard about the murder charge and subsequent trial and/or did not concern herself with the matter.

I looked up historical weather on Environment Canada yesterday - there is a monitoring station at Toronto Zoo that reads no rain on 19 June 1990 but rain for 12 June 1990. There is a Toronto station called Ellesmere (don't know exactly where) that reads a trace of rain - too little to register.

Any idea what EB was suppose to be doing prior to 2:30 pm or 3:00 pm?

Sounded like a pretty mundane day from my recollection.
Not a lot of information.
This is from the book.........Liz's sister saw her about 10am sitting on floor reading books still in same outfit as night before. Mrs B saw her approx same time, Liz pooped her head out window and said "what you doing mom, you look like a lumberjack" (mrs B was working with limestone in the front yard). A little later Liz came out and said she was going to Scarborough campus to "check some papers". Her mother asked her to pick up a jug of milk on her way home. She pulled I to driveway with milk about half hour later.
She left again early afternoon, possibly between 1:00 and 2:00. She was wearing shorts and said she was going for a jog, but left in her car. Mrs B assumed she was going to park at the campus and go from there. This time she returned within the hour.
Before Liz's final trip of the day she said she was going to check the tennis schedule . Mrs B thought this might have taken place between 4:00 and 4:30pm. Liz was wearing black cotton pants a white blouse decorated with a bright floral pattern and black leather flats with no socks. Her hair was pinned back with a hair clip and she wasn't carrying any books or tennis equipment. On her way out to her car, Liz told her mom that she'd be back in a couple of hours. And that was the last time she'd seen her.

 

[Woodland]

Right - the following is my understanding, so correct me if I'm wrong -

EB was with RB in Col/Dan park until 2:00 am or so on 19 June 1990 - doing what two students, or recent graduates do that are still living with their parents.

At 10:00 am on 19 June 1990, sister of EB reports she is still wearing the same clothes as when EB left evening or whatever time on 18 June. This insinuates EB did not change into any pj's or possibly not get any sleep after she came home at 2:00 am or so.

So EB finally changes clothes, goes to the campus, again, to 'check some papers', according to family, and brings home milk. This is about 11:30 am or sooner?

Then EB left for a jog - again to the campus or surrounding area, in her car, and again according to family, between 1:00 and 2:00 pm, wearing shorts. Does that mean she wasn't wearing shorts when she went to the campus previously and for milk? Then she returns about 2:00 or 3:00 pm.

Then EB wants to go back to campus, again, and check the tennis schedule, according to family, about 4:00 - 4:30 pm. She is now wearing black pants and a white blouse with a floral pattern.

EB has changed her clothes, according to family, at least twice between 10:00 am and 4:00 - 4:30 pm. But didn't change clothes between 2:00 am and 10:00 am?

Hopefully no one minds that I not buy into that. I don't get the not changing between 2:00 am and 10:00 am, then changing twice later in the morning/afternoon in a short period of time. Bear in mind, that's just me, but have had a university student live here - female at that. Cosy pj's at 2:00 am was the dress code. And as I recall, my dress code was the same years earlier at 2:00 am unless I had not arrived home yet. Even a guy will peel down to boxers or whatever and lose the jeans, shirt/t-shirt from the night before. Jmo.

 

[Woodland]

Wondering why this could not be EB - RCMP Canada's Missing site, case no. 2006001399. Found Sarnia, 14 June 1992, 15 kms south of the city of Sarnia near the St Clair river. 5'3 to 5'5. No hair color listed. Wearing red knee high socks, red leg warmers and long johns. The drive from EB's home to this location would be about 3 hours - using the handy dandy 401, veering off on the 402.

https://secure.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/missing-disparus/case-dossier.jsf?case=2006001399&id=0

Imo, the clothing insinuates a colder time of year than June - which is why I would like to see this checked thoroughly.

As I understand it, EB's DNA was a combination of the DNA of her mother and father - nothing from a toothbrush, hairbrush etc that specifically would identify her over another sibling. DNA was only an offspring of the known parents.

Since Canada lags in the missing persons arena, only a manual comparison would rule this, or any other set of remains, in or out, as I understand the technology, or lack of, today.

 

[eyesonly]

Not sure if it was actual DNA comparison or blood typing they did.
imo they would need some type of remains for a confirmation. Hairbrush or toothbrush
without remains I don't think would be an acceptable positive identification.
They could match the hairbrush or toothbrush DNA to the blood DNA but that's not a positive match to Liz without actual remains to compare too. imo

 

[Woodland]

Without looking back, iiirc you posted that DNA in the back of the Tercel was determined to be from an offspring of Mr & Mrs Bain.

The remains found in Sarnia are from a female estimated to be 23 years of age - is that worth checking? Dental records?

 

[Woodland]

Fwiw, Toronto Star archives, 2 August 1990, page A2.

Blood from Bain's parents is being matched with the blood found inside the 1981 Toyota Tercel found near the Scarborough campus where the 23-year-old went missing June 19, The Star was told yesterday.

So far, police have established only that the blood in the car is group O, a homicide detective said. About half of Canada's population has this type.


Also fwiw, article dated 8 November 1990, page E10.

So they have been searching inside a huge arc, 50 miles east to Peterborough and 50 miles north to Beaverton.


Lake Ontario is south, so thought west was worth a look - for many reasons. Jmo.

 

[eyesonly]

��

Without looking back, iiirc you posted that DNA in the back of the Tercel was determined to be from an offspring of Mr & Mrs Bain.

The remains found in Sarnia are from a female estimated to be 23 years of age - is that worth checking? Dental records?

Yes I did say DNA that's why I added the blood in the above post. So used to everything being DNA related now a days, I should have said blood matching as I did in the above post.

Not sure about the sarnia thing, the clothing is no where near a match for the night of the 19th. Were they older remains found or an intact body recently deceased.

What are your reasons for looking west, care to share

Anything is possible. Did they do a facial reconstruction or is there any info on race of the remains

 

[Woodland]

EB's people, one of them accused of being responsible all along for removing the missing diary pages after they were found in LE's possession and openly willing to lie at a second trial, were looking east and north - the lake is south, so that only leaves west.

Not much info on the Sarnia remains on Canada's partial list of missing people and found human remains. No race, no hair color and no mention if a skull or mandible was found. As a comparison, there is a woman missing from Brantford since 1976 or so - her husband described her clothes down to her shoes were patent leather and the name of the tartan pattern her coat and pants were made of. Pretty sure if she was found before the clothing deteriorated, those items would have been the last thing found on her remains. Jmo. Pretty smart though - LE would rule out looking at remains not wearing that clothing.

Eventually a DNA profile could have been done on the blood in the back of the Tercel - assuming CFS stored it in a refrigerator. Unfortunately, in 1998 it was revealed CFS did not have the wherewithal to buy a refrigerator for this purpose.

 

[eyesonly]

Anybody got a line on a cadaver dog for use in the Scarborough area

 

[Woodland]

Can finally start reading the story for myself eyesonly, and do some much needed catching up.

In the meantime, is anyone familiar with the residence? How visible to the neighbors is the area where the limestone was put down? Just wondering.

..."what you doing mom, you look like a lumberjack" (mrs B was working with limestone in the front yard).

 

[eyesonly]

Can finally start reading the story for myself eyesonly, and do some much needed catching up.

In the meantime, is anyone familiar with the residence? How visible to the neighbors is the area where the limestone was put down? Just wondering.

i believe this is the house. and pretty sure it looked like this in 1990.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.7939...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfapX9Pydu73uB6BBV9KWsw!2e0

 

[Woodland]

Oh good lord. Missing person + stone work in process at the secluded residence = did LE look? Just for the heck of it would have been justified, covering all bases would have been even better. The family still lived there in October 2008 as per Toronto Observer article.

http://torontoobserver.ca/2008/10/26/elizabeth-bain-follow-up/