CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[Woodland]

You don't want to discuss your info? It's an option of course.

There is plenty to discuss with what the family and gf is saying about each other - for anyone interested.

 

[SecretSource]

Secretsource can you confirm this was the wed morning and do you know if LE actually sent a cruiser thanks

It was definitely a Wednesday morning because the officer that was asked to arrange it was a constable named Stinson and after that day he had no further involvement with the case. I don't know if it was a cruiser but it makes sense; at that early stage, it certainly was nowhere near a homicide case.

 

[SecretSource]

I think if it was C's it was freshly drawn into a tube using a needle.

Here's a theory right out of the twilight zone:

Several weeks before EB goes missing she tells RB on a Saturday night in late May/early June while he is visiting EB's group home where she works that she did something bad; RB asks her to tell him and she at first hesitates and RB starts guessing only to realize it was EB's wrists and she shows him the evidence and days, "I did it again." RB told his family, several friends and a co-worker at the time this happened so he didn't make it up and we know from EB's diary that it happened before. The wounds were serious enough to draw blood because RB saw the scabs, so.... Is it possible that that's where the blood came from? And what explanation could that be rationalized with?

It's a million to one shot but when WL mused that maybe the blood was placed there deliberately and not as a result of a body placed dragged or dragged out it is something that crossed my mind.

 

[Woodland]

It's Wood-land or WL.

Thanks.

 

[Woodland]

Not so twilight zone imo - have read the sequence of events you mention. However, keeping the blood for that long? It passed the CFS test?

Placing the blood there fits with no exit smears - far less than a million to one shot imo. Imo, EB did not plan whatever happened 19 June 1990. She may have egged it on, but did not ultimately plan the outcome. Could be wrong though. Don't feel EB ever 'attempted' suicide either - she was crying out for help. Again, jmo.

If someone serious wants to nail this on the head, then that blood needs to narrowed down to which of the 2 people on planet earth it belonged to. So far on this thread, Dr P Newall left it open - CFS at it's best at that time. It was a guess. I like kemo's description a few pages back - it was sloppy.

What time did MB get home from work on 19 June 1990. Guessing he showered, changed then ......

 

[SecretSource]

However, keeping the blood for that long? It passed the CFS test?

One would assume it passed some sort of test although there is no reason to think there might not be more CFS information that remains to be disclosed. I assume that refrigerated blood could be spread weeks later and appear to be fresh given that it lasts about 42 days from what I gather. On the subject of blood, the information provided to Raybould was somewhat ambiguous in that the CFS claimed it was red, fresh and undecomposed. What isn't specified is whether it was red, fresh and undecomposed at the time it was deposited or when the car was found; if it's the latter then clearly if EB was murdered it was much closer to Friday.

Don't feel EB ever 'attempted' suicide either - she was crying out for help.

Likely. But the entire diary was never entered into evidence - it would have been in 2008 - and it was rife with allusions to past suicide attempts and suicide ideations. Had the trial gone ahead, it would have been devastating for the family, given that there was abundant evidence that EB was far more troubled than even the last diary entry exhibited and one entry from several years before made the June 15th, 1990 "I want death to come to me..." one seem remarkably tame by comparison. The family were spared more than they know.

it was sloppy.

Couldn't agree more; why go to all the trouble of hiding a body to conceal it's whereabouts - and for 24 years no less - and leave the victim's blood all over her car? Unless of course EB was attacked and killed in her car and you don't have much of a choice.

 

[SecretSource]

It's Wood-land or WL.

Thanks.

Noted.

 

[SecretSource]

Can we leave any 'sightings' by people that did not know EB from this particular exercise? Anyone that wants to believe MP (seeing EB at the tennis courts at 5:45 pm) is clearly free to do so.

They are free but they would be making a mistake, imo. The original sighting didn't even have a man there; that came later. The women who were there on the picnic table - and who gave statements to the police - say no one matching EB's description was there with them; hypnosis was required before MP could even hazard a guess as to who else was there and during the pre-hypnosis phase she admitted to having been taking anti-psychotic medication; EB's car was far enough away that if you had any plans whatsoever of going to the tennis courts - and EB had no reason given that her father was in Florida and she wasn't jogging that day - you wouldn't have parked there. Way too many reasons not to accept her evidence; she guessed and she guessed wrong and even setting aside her false testimony and the way her life has unfolded there is simply no supporting evidence to give her any benefit of the doubt.

 

[SecretSource]

So MB knew his sister did not come home the night before. How did he know that? Exactly how did he know that?

Mrs. B likely told MB this earlier that morning before RB arrived; or not. Who knows. It's also uncertain as to whether MB called home or Mrs. B called him at work and sadly Mrs. B is a tad untrustworthy when it comes to dates, times and details. Eben RB told the police that she "often forget's things." It does bear mentioning that RB left a message on MB's phone that night when he couldn't get through to their family line asking him to call RB no matter what time he got home and MB for some inexplicable reason erased it and never explained to RB why.

 

[eyesonly]

They are free but they would be making a mistake, imo. The original sighting didn't even have a man there; that came later. The women who were there on the picnic table - and who gave statements to the police - say no one matching EB's description was there with them; hypnosis was required before MP could even hazard a guess as to who else was there and during the pre-hypnosis phase she admitted to having been taking anti-psychotic medication; EB's car was far enough away that if you had any plans whatsoever of going to the tennis courts - and EB had no reason given that her father was in Florida and she wasn't jogging that day - you wouldn't have parked there. Way too many reasons not to accept her evidence; she guessed and she guessed wrong and even setting aside her false testimony and the way her life has unfolded there is simply no supporting evidence to give her any benefit of the doubt.

Did RB;s defense team know at the time of trial that the 3 asian girls were interviewed and what they said.
MP's sighting is off the table for sure.

btw, just to clarify, the 3 cordless phones in the bain house were all different numbers. it's very possible that mrs bain did not hang up the phone properly and thus the reason for the busy signal on the main house line. jmo

 

[Woodland]

Sloppy actually referred to PN not scientifically eliminating CB as a donor of the blood in the back of the Tercel. As far as we know, there is only a statement by CB saying 'I did not bleed in my sisters car'.

SS - you said earlier that PN presented her findings to the court on who the blood belonged to and it was accepted. What did she say was her method to eliminate CB? Or did she say?

Imo, the blood was necessary to point LE in the direction that EB had been murdered and was not a missing person.

 

[Woodland]

Imo, one could make a theoretical case for MB losing it after work that day when he, EB and Mrs B were home - there was an enormous amount of tension in the home and EB escalated it, imo, with the letter to NS suggesting she break it off with her brother. It's been said MB had a short fuse.

In this scenario, I don't think it was a bloody event and EB did not necessarily die immediately. EB did not drive her car to the valley which accounts for her wallet being found in her room.

In this scenario, I don't think the B family set out to frame RB - I think LE led the way and the family followed, keeping one of their own out of jail.

Jmo.

 

[eyesonly]

EB did not drive her car to the valley which accounts for her wallet being found in her room.Jmo.

The other scenario is that she did drive her car and MB took her wallet home. What I find perplexing is the cigarettes. Why just leave them in the glove compartment and also a filter cut off one. Have my own thoughts but would like to hear others.

 

[raining]

Oh my goodness, there is so much work being done on this thread! I periodically check and was shocked to see how many pages I had to read through.

Question about your last post, eyesonly, and maybe it's been asked before. Was MB a smoker?

 

[eyesonly]

Question about your last post, eyesonly, and maybe it's been asked before. Was MB a smoker?

MB was not a smoker that I am aware of raining. Thanks for joining in.

 

[Woodland]

btw, just to clarify, the 3 cordless phones in the bain house were all different numbers. it's very possible that mrs bain did not hang up the phone properly and thus the reason for the busy signal on the main house line. jmo

How did RB get through then in order to leave a message on MB's private line? See post #849, previous page - RB left a message on MB's line when he couldn't get through on the family line because it was continuously busy.

It might be difficult to discuss MB because one then has to realize/acknowledge Mrs B was home as well?

 

[eyesonly]

How did RB get through then in order to leave a message on MB's private line? See post #849, previous page - RB left a message on MB's line when he couldn't get through on the family line because it was continuously busy.

It might be difficult to discuss MB because one then has to realize/acknowledge Mrs B was home as well?

Well i am not a tech genius really. If the main line phone was busy, that shouldn't affect calling another number in the house would it? I'm just guessing cause what sense would it make to have 3 different lines if you could only use one at a time.
Not sure about the "acknowledge Mrs B was home as well" comment woodland. What do you mean by that, we know she was home that night.

 

[SecretSource]

Did RB;s defense team know at the time of trial that the 3 asian girls were interviewed and what they said.

First trial they did not; the second trial they did.

 

[eyesonly]

So the crown knowingly puts on a witness whose sighting is directly contradicted by the very people to whom the sighting included. And not just one person but 3 people who contradict the sighting that no one was sitting with them who matched the description of EB.
Sorry but isn't there laws against this. And didn't this prosecutor go on to be a judge? Oh my, I hope I'm wrong there.

 

[SecretSource]

So the crown knowingly puts on a witness whose sighting is directly contradicted by the very people to whom the sighting included. And not just one person but 3 people who contradict the sighting that no one was sitting with them who matched the description of EB.
Sorry but isn't there laws against this. And didn't this prosecutor go on to be a judge? Oh my, I hope I'm wrong there.

Somewhat like DD's ID of the car in that his driver RT had no memory of the so-called car sighting at all, although in an ironic twist we now know that if DD saw the car the forensic evidence makes it clear that EB couldn't have been killed on Tuesday, June 19th, 1990 and RB therefore couldn't have been driving it.

The idea was that she (MP) knew EB, they (the Asian women) didn't. Of course, there is the matter of how two groups of people who didn't know each other in arguably the largest park in Scarborough ended up on the same picnic table; if the Asian women were there first then why wouldn't EB either alone or with someone else - if indeed she or they were there - go to another picnic table. And, if a woman and a man were together on a picnic table by themselves, would a group of young women approach said table and sit down beside them, or would they find somewhere else to sit? There are a whole host of other implausibilities to go along with this alleged sighting - such as MP's post-hypnosis claim that she saw that EB had been crying - but the scenario itself is ridiculous.

And, perhaps after 22 years, people who have no particular interest in the case are starting to figure MP out:

http://www.mykawartha.com/news-story/4901219-court-finds-darrell-walton-not-guilty-of-first-degree-murder-at-kirkfield-area-farm/